2022 Christmas OT pay question.

[gotstamps]

The supervisors in our office are also unable to issue daca3. Interestingly the rcas have an 8 day consecutive rule where they're not letting them work more than 8 days in a row and no more than 12/day (a good rule imho)
While regular carriers are working kdays and Sundays sometimes 12+ hours a day.

Leave Replacements aren’t allowed per Upper mgmt to work over 12 hours. The F-21 states this also since there is no way to pay OT for the over-12 work portion. Regs are paid OT for the over-12 hours therefore it’s not an issue.

As to the “8-day” rule, it doesn’t exist except with mgmt. Any sub sitting at home while a Reg works OT, routes are split, OR a sub is borrowed from a different office has a Grievance & would be paid for it. Most subs won’t file as they are happy to have a day off.

 

[stillfirstclass]

that's how it is supposed to work, but it didn't for me and never taken a code 5 since. Even when I'm doing being forced to work on Saturday during Christmas, I take off even if they say no..... LOL Once bitten twice shy LOL

same

 

[Joe Reeser]

For 43K, your normal salary is calculated at 40 hours and 3 hours OT.

I believe one is paid 43 straight hours. If those 3 hours were paid at an overtime rate, I don't see how 2080 would be a thing. One would have already been paid overtime for all required hours.

 

[DB.Cooper]

I believe one is paid 43 straight hours. If those 3 hours were paid at an overtime rate, I don't see how 2080 would be a thing. One would have already been paid overtime for all required hours.

Actually, the pay tables do have all hours above 40 calculated at the OT rate.... you can do the math on the diff between like a 42 and a 43-hour route, and see that it is at OT rate.... between 39 and 40 would be at straight time rate....

 

[DB.Cooper]

I believe one is paid 43 straight hours. If those 3 hours were paid at an overtime rate, I don't see how 2080 would be a thing. One would have already been paid overtime for all required hours.

That is a good point about the 2080 issue.... I dunno what the explanation is there.... probably something about actual vs evaluated hours.... it's a strange system....

 

[gotstamps]

That is a good point about the 2080 issue.... I dunno what the explanation is there.... probably something about actual vs evaluated hours.... it's a strange system....

2080 is a 40 hour work-week. Take away the 11 holidays & that gives an extra 88 hours that can be worked without going over 2080. This means that we can actually work 41.6 hours each week without exceeding the 2080 limit.
Most Carriers used to be able stay under 2080 without needing to take much time off. In some areas this is still true but the majority of the country is shorthanded on subs & need to take off to stay under but cannot so now this has become an issue.

 

[Joe Reeser]

That is a good point about the 2080 issue.... I dunno what the explanation is there.... probably something about actual vs evaluated hours.... it's a strange system....

I've looked at this a couple of times and I can never be sure which is one reason I hate this pay system: no one seems to really understand it. Anyways, I did some maths this morning for whatever God-forsaken reason. Here's the result:

My route is a 42K. I'm on step 3. I worked both my K-days this last pay period. My paystub lists "overtime hours | 8.4 | 411.89".

So to get my hourly rate equivalent, one would divide $411.89 by 8.4 which gives $49.03452381 per overtime hour.

Multiply that by two-thirds which gives $32.689682539 per regular hour.

To get a weekly salary one would multiply that by 42 hours which gives $1,372.9666667.

To get the yearly salary one would multiply that by 52 weeks which results in a total of $71,394.266667.

The salary chart lists an annual salary of $71,393.

I think we can discount the rounding error of $1.27 so that looks like to me that my 42 hours is paid as straight time which is why 2080 is a thing.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[DB.Cooper]

I've looked at this a couple of times and I can never be sure which is one reason I hate this pay system: no one seems to really understand it. Anyways, I did some maths this morning for whatever God-forsaken reason. Here's the result:

My route is a 42K. I'm on step 3. I worked both my K-days this last pay period. My paystub lists "overtime hours | 8.4 | 411.89".

So to get my hourly rate equivalent, one would divide $411.89 by 8.4 which gives $49.03452381 per overtime hour.

Multiply that by two-thirds which gives $32.689682539 per regular hour.

To get a weekly salary one would multiply that by 42 hours which gives $1,372.9666667.

To get the yearly salary one would multiply that by 52 weeks which results in a total of $71,394.266667.

The salary chart lists an annual salary of $71,393.

I think we can discount the rounding error of $1.27 so that looks like to me that my 42 hours is paid as straight time which is why 2080 is a thing.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong.

To start with, you can't use the OT rate in the OT period, because that's based upon some HIGHLY convoluted formula which considers how many actual hours you worked since the beginning of the guarantee year and various other convoluted factors....

okay, here's my simplified version....
1) look at the same pay table that gave you the $71,393 for a Step 3 42K
2) now take the Step 3 40K rate of $66,407 and divide by 2080, and that gives your straight time rate of ~$31.93
3) Now multiple your straight time ~$31.93 times 1.5 to get your OT rate of ~$47.89
4) then if you add the 2 hours per week of OT, times the 52 weeks of the year, that's 104 hours times the OT rate, which gives you ~$47.89 x 104 = ~$4,980.53
5) Now add the 40 hours straight time annual rate ($66,407) to the annual 104 extra OT hours (~$4,980.53), and that gives you $66407 + $4980.53 = $71,387.53

And, there might be a couple of other screwy factors that might throw it off by a couple of bucks, but this is basically how it works, as has always been explained to me....

 

[Joe Reeser]

To start with, you can't use the OT rate in the OT period, because that's based upon some HIGHLY convoluted formula which considers how many actual hours you worked since the beginning of the guarantee year and various other convoluted factors....

But from what I understand, K-day overtime isn't the same as Christmas overtime even during the "Christmas No-Overtime Period." And again I say, I hate this system because it's so obtuse and no one really understands it.

I do get your point here, so I went back to my Sep 2nd paystub. I'll repeat that my route is a 42K and I'm on step 3. My paystub for week one lists "overtime hours | 8.4 | 389.10".

1. To to get my hourly rate equivalent, one would divide $389.10 by 8.4 which gives $46.32142 per overtime hour.
2. Multiply that by two-thirds which gives $30.88095 per regular hour.
3. To get a weekly salary one would multiply that by 42 hours which gives $1,297.00000.
4. To get the yearly salary one would multiply that by 52 weeks which results in a total of $67,444.00000.

My paystub lists an annual salary of $67,443 (which, by the way, when divided by 52 weeks in the year equals $1,296.980769).

I think we can discount the rounding error of $1.00 so that looks like to me that my 42 hours is still paid as straight time which - again - is why 2080 is a thing.

Now off of that same Sep 2nd paystub, 2nd week, it shows 42 hours @ $1,296.98 which would equal $30.88047 per hour. This would be straight time only and NOT getting overtime for those two hours over forty.

Now I haven't gone through your system, although I will now. I dunno - it just seems to me that if we're actually getting overtime for hours over forty every week, there's no reason 2080 would even be a thing because it changes nothing. We would have already been paid all the overtime we had coming.

 

[DB.Cooper]

But from what I understand, K-day overtime isn't the same as Christmas overtime even during the "Christmas No-Overtime Period." And again I say, I hate this system because it's so obtuse and no one really understands it.

I do get your point here, so I went back to my Sep 2nd paystub. I'll repeat that my route is a 42K and I'm on step 3. My paystub for week one lists "overtime hours | 8.4 | 389.10".

1. To to get my hourly rate equivalent, one would divide $389.10 by 8.4 which gives $46.32142 per overtime hour.
2. Multiply that by two-thirds which gives $30.88095 per regular hour.
3. To get a weekly salary one would multiply that by 42 hours which gives $1,297.00000.
4. To get the yearly salary one would multiply that by 52 weeks which results in a total of $67,444.00000.

My paystub lists an annual salary of $67,443 (which, by the way, when divided by 52 weeks in the year equals $1,296.980769).

I think we can discount the rounding error of $1.00 so that looks like to me that my 42 hours is still paid as straight time which - again - is why 2080 is a thing.

Now off of that same Sep 2nd paystub, 2nd week, it shows 42 hours @ $1,296.98 which would equal $30.88047 per hour. This would be straight time only and NOT getting overtime for those two hours over forty.

Now I haven't gone through your system, although I will now. I dunno - it just seems to me that if we're actually getting overtime for hours over forty every week, there's no reason 2080 would even be a thing because it changes nothing. We would have already been paid all the overtime we had coming.

It does get VERY convoluted.... going back to September throws you to an older pay Table.... js.... the one you were quoting before was effective in November.... just to throw in another wrench....

Did you read @gotstamps post above??? The 2080 has to do more with actual hours worked.... and it takes into account things like leave and holidays.... it's a confusing system, that's for sure....

 

[Joe Reeser]

1) look at the same pay table that gave you the $71,393 for a Step 3 42K
2) now take the Step 3 40K rate of $66,407 and divide by 2080, and that gives your straight time rate of ~$31.93
3) Now multiple your straight time ~$31.93 times 1.5 to get your OT rate of ~$47.89
4) then if you add the 2 hours per week of OT, times the 52 weeks of the year, that's 104 hours times the OT rate, which gives you ~$47.89 x 104 = ~$4,980.53
5) Now add the 40 hours straight time annual rate ($66,407) to the annual 104 extra OT hours (~$4,980.53), and that gives you $66407 + $4980.53 = $71,387.53

Okay - I'm going to take your numbers and see if I can minimize rounding error and see what difference, if any, that makes.

1) look at the same pay table that gave you the $71,393 for a Step 3 42K​

2) now take the Step 3 40K rate of $66,407 and divide by 2080, and that gives your straight time rate of ~$31.93 ($31.92644)​

3) Now multiple your straight time ~$31.93 ($31.92644) times 1.5 to get your OT rate of ~$47.89 ($47.88966)​

4) then if you add the 2 hours per week of OT, times the 52 weeks of the year, that's 104 hours times the OT rate, which gives you ~$47.89 ($47.88966) x 104 = ~$4,980.53 ($4,980.525)​

5) Now add the 40 hours straight time annual rate ($66,407) to the annual 104 extra OT hours (~$4,980.53) ($4,980.525), and that gives you $66407 + $4980.53 ($4,980.525) = $71,387.53 ($71,387.525)​

See there?!?!?!? I shaved a half penny off. So the rounding error makes no appreciable difference.

 

[DB.Cooper]

But from what I understand, K-day overtime isn't the same as Christmas overtime even during the "Christmas No-Overtime Period." And again I say, I hate this system because it's so obtuse and no one really understands it.

I do get your point here, so I went back to my Sep 2nd paystub. I'll repeat that my route is a 42K and I'm on step 3. My paystub for week one lists "overtime hours | 8.4 | 389.10".

1. To to get my hourly rate equivalent, one would divide $389.10 by 8.4 which gives $46.32142 per overtime hour.
2. Multiply that by two-thirds which gives $30.88095 per regular hour.
3. To get a weekly salary one would multiply that by 42 hours which gives $1,297.00000.
4. To get the yearly salary one would multiply that by 52 weeks which results in a total of $67,444.00000.

My paystub lists an annual salary of $67,443 (which, by the way, when divided by 52 weeks in the year equals $1,296.980769).

I think we can discount the rounding error of $1.00 so that looks like to me that my 42 hours is still paid as straight time which - again - is why 2080 is a thing.

Now off of that same Sep 2nd paystub, 2nd week, it shows 42 hours @ $1,296.98 which would equal $30.88047 per hour. This would be straight time only and NOT getting overtime for those two hours over forty.

Now I haven't gone through your system, although I will now. I dunno - it just seems to me that if we're actually getting overtime for hours over forty every week, there's no reason 2080 would even be a thing because it changes nothing. We would have already been paid all the overtime we had coming.

Another thing to think about, is all Table 1 Step 3 carriers should have the same straight time rate.... be they 38 hours or 46.... the difference comes in by how many OT hours they're getting in their weekly evals.... a 46K has a lot better hourly rate dividing their pay by 46, than a 40K does by dividing their pay by 40.... and that's because of the OT, not a difference in their straight time rates, because their straight time rates are the same....

 

[DB.Cooper]

....

See there?!?!?!? I shaved a half penny off. So the rounding error makes no appreciable difference.

I did use the ~ symbol....

 

[Joe Reeser]

going back to September throws you to an older pay Table.... js.... the one you were quoting before was effective in November.... just to throw in another wrench....

I realize that which is why I just used the annualized salary off my paystub rather trying to find the appropriate (outdated) pay chart.

Did you read @gotstamps post above??? The 2080 has to do more with actual hours worked.... and it takes into account things like leave and holidays.... it's a confusing system, that's for sure....

Yes, I did. 2080 absolutely does have to do with actual hours worked. The problem is that hours already paid at the overtime rate don't count towards 2080. So the hours working your holiday/day off and being paid DACA 5 don't count for 2080.

The whole thing just drives me crazy but I have to do something besides sitting at my computer all day so I'm going to take a break.

Hope you had a good Christmas.

 

[Joe Reeser]

I did use the ~ symbol....

Yes, you did but I can be a little OCD.

 

[Joe Reeser]

Another thing to think about, is all Table 1 Step 3 carriers should have the same straight time rate.... be they 38 hours or 46....

This appears to be true according to my calculations.

 

[DB.Cooper]

I realize that which is why I just used the annualized salary off my paystub rather trying to find the appropriate (outdated) pay chart.


Yes, I did. 2080 absolutely does have to do with actual hours worked. The problem is that hours already paid at the overtime rate don't count towards 2080. So the hours working your holiday/day off and being paid DACA 5 don't count for 2080.

The whole thing just drives me crazy but I have to do something besides sitting at my computer all day so I'm going to take a break.

Hope you had a good Christmas.

I understand, it drives me crazy too.... one problem with using paystubs, is you're gonna have different pay rates throughout the year, due to step increases, COLAs, contract increases, etc., etc.... if you focus more on the pay tables, then it's a little easier to make it make sense, as you showed with your spreadsheet....

The 2080 can be hard to think about as well.... it applies equally to a 48K route that gets 8 hours of OT every week, as it does to a 40K route getting no OT in their weekly eval.... so in some ways it's apples and oranges.... its about actual hours worked, and not so much about evals, or the number of OT hours paid in the evals.... believe me, I see the contradictions, and I certainly don't understand it all.... it's confusing, intentionally so, I believe....

 

[psd181]

I've looked at this a couple of times and I can never be sure which is one reason I hate this pay system: no one seems to really understand it. Anyways, I did some maths this morning for whatever God-forsaken reason. Here's the result:

My route is a 42K. I'm on step 3. I worked both my K-days this last pay period. My paystub lists "overtime hours | 8.4 | 411.89".

So to get my hourly rate equivalent, one would divide $411.89 by 8.4 which gives $49.03452381 per overtime hour.

Multiply that by two-thirds which gives $32.689682539 per regular hour.

To get a weekly salary one would multiply that by 42 hours which gives $1,372.9666667.

To get the yearly salary one would multiply that by 52 weeks which results in a total of $71,394.266667.

The salary chart lists an annual salary of $71,393.

I think we can discount the rounding error of $1.27 so that looks like to me that my 42 hours is paid as straight time which is why 2080 is a thing.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong.

Christmas OT hours are paid based upon actual pay vs actual hours from the beginning of guarantee period to the OT period. Therefore your actual mileage may vary........... OT rate that is.

 

[psd181]

To throw another kink in all of your calculations................... we are paid a DAILY RATE not hourly or yearly. LOL Daily rate is the $ figure from the salary charts. If K route divide by 260. J divide by 286. H divide by 302

Then you have what you get paid per day. Mulitply that by the # of days worked in a PP and you come up with your biweekly pay.

when you have a code 3 or 5, it's 1/2 daily rate for 3's and 1 1/2 daily rate for 5's You get OT on top of OT if you really wanted to do the math. For example a 48K would get 1:40 in OT a day (let's say it's $80).... code 5 would give you 150% of the 1:40 OT ($80), so you get another $160 just for the 1:40 OT for the code 5
Get your calculators and popcorn out to work on that one

 

[Twistofcain]

Not to derail this thread, but let's say you are evaluated higher than a 48k. When do you hit Christmas ot then?