2nd Trip. Here we go again.

Risen145

New member
Best answers
0
So. I have tried my best to skim the NRLCA website and look at several grievance settlements and indexes, many of which were at step 4. I also checked FLSA pay procedure. I see two step 4s that were settled on 2nd trip based on
1. Inadequate vehicle size (not large enough to accommodate parcels delivered in 1 trip.)
2. Carriers leaving to the street and being asked to make a 2nd trip when mail (express mail, priority mail or miss-sorted mail) arrives after the fact and becomes available for delivery.

So, my question is, if your office is getting SO many parcels that the daily time they finish is between 12-2 p.m. , you are instructed to leave and run route, then come back once parcels are finished (or finish your route first , then come back even if parcels are finished.) Can they mandate the way they pay you based on the current step 4 grievance settlements? I do not see anything in the language in those 2 settlements that state this scenario happening.

We were being paid straight time *sometimes overtime* and the miles driven for 2nd trip. Now, they want to force the settlement standard of Load time only, 2 minutes per mile, and additional EMA compensation for miles total over 40 for the day.

For clarification, I am a regular, have been for the last 2 years, 1 year ptf Prior. I run a 45k route, POV, with 28.5 daily miles. 2nd trip has been absolutely a daily endeavor since Jan 1st of this year. My route averages between 2 1/2 - 4 hampers of parcels alone, daily. My POV is a single cab truck with a Tonna-Cover, so goodluck on them mandating a bigger POV to me. I fit more than most of the van drivers here. I have been told that wait time can be authorized and approved, followed by them changing my report time from 8 a.m. to as late as 10:30 a.m. to compensate for their incompetence. Also told by Steward, ADR and DR that they can and will do this, and you cannot grieve it and successfully revert your report time.

If anyone can clarify my ignorance, or even better, provide a grievance settlement that shows this scenario and better compensation (like the ACTUAL TIME THE 2ND TRIP TOOK) plus the EMA pay we were getting, I would love to see that and shove it in managements face. Also, our steward is worthless so we have to take care of ourselves.

Finally, thanks for reading my whining! I needed to vent this BS! I thought becoming a regular would absolve some of the horror as a sub. HA. HAHA. Wow I was wrong.
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
Best answers
9
There is nothing in writing that gives us “Actual Time” for 2nd Trips nor for Deviations. 2nd Trips Are 2 minutes per mile plus Load Time plus EMA over 40 daily miles (on POV routes). Deviation Pay is ONLY 2 minutes per mile & EMA over 40 daily miles from the point you leave your route to when you return to that point. You have been lucky to have received Actual Time in the past.
 

22222

Well-known member
Best answers
0
So. I have tried my best to skim the NRLCA website and look at several grievance settlements and indexes, many of which were at step 4. I also checked FLSA pay procedure. I see two step 4s that were settled on 2nd trip based on
1. Inadequate vehicle size (not large enough to accommodate parcels delivered in 1 trip.)
2. Carriers leaving to the street and being asked to make a 2nd trip when mail (express mail, priority mail or miss-sorted mail) arrives after the fact and becomes available for delivery.

So, my question is, if your office is getting SO many parcels that the daily time they finish is between 12-2 p.m. , you are instructed to leave and run route, then come back once parcels are finished (or finish your route first , then come back even if parcels are finished.) Can they mandate the way they pay you based on the current step 4 grievance settlements? I do not see anything in the language in those 2 settlements that state this scenario happening.

We were being paid straight time *sometimes overtime* and the miles driven for 2nd trip. Now, they want to force the settlement standard of Load time only, 2 minutes per mile, and additional EMA compensation for miles total over 40 for the day.

For clarification, I am a regular, have been for the last 2 years, 1 year ptf Prior. I run a 45k route, POV, with 28.5 daily miles. 2nd trip has been absolutely a daily endeavor since Jan 1st of this year. My route averages between 2 1/2 - 4 hampers of parcels alone, daily. My POV is a single cab truck with a Tonna-Cover, so goodluck on them mandating a bigger POV to me. I fit more than most of the van drivers here. I have been told that wait time can be authorized and approved, followed by them changing my report time from 8 a.m. to as late as 10:30 a.m. to compensate for their incompetence. Also told by Steward, ADR and DR that they can and will do this, and you cannot grieve it and successfully revert your report time.

If anyone can clarify my ignorance, or even better, provide a grievance settlement that shows this scenario and better compensation (like the ACTUAL TIME THE 2ND TRIP TOOK) plus the EMA pay we were getting, I would love to see that and shove it in managements face. Also, our steward is worthless so we have to take care of ourselves.

Finally, thanks for reading my whining! I needed to vent this BS! I thought becoming a regular would absolve some of the horror as a sub. HA. HAHA. Wow I was wrong.
They can change your start time, but not so much that you don't have time to do your route
 

22222

Well-known member
Best answers
0
This is the blanket answer the union gives everyone, find out the latest time your start time can be with a full lunch of 30 minutes to meet last dismount. this is the absolute latest time you can start. You r a regular, if you miss dispatch you will not have to get the mail anywhere. Play the game get some broad shoulders u will need them, and realize the problem is them not you, just play by the rules keep tract on your timesheet of mail volumes , and parcels so when your asked dumb questions it is there in black and white.. they r always putting their distribution problems on us. Something has to be done at a higher lever. I would get in touch with state Steward and have a nice conversation about this and make sure they are aware keep going up the chain, I have found that sometimes the lower level stewards don't take problems to the state.
 
Last edited:

22222

Well-known member
Best answers
0
Maybe there is some type of grievance you can file about the distribution time, because they are abusing the 2nd trip read carefully ( inadequate vehicle & express, priority, or missorted after you left) nothing states the lack of clerk hours.. he needs to rearrange his clerks to have more hrs in the am. This happened to us years ago now we have an 830 up time and we cut off parcels that arrive after a certain time, maybe you can get this info and see if this can help you arm your next grievance . You need a class action from your office regulars to get noticed.. you all have to stick together.
 
Last edited:

Risen145

New member
Best answers
0
This has been an interesting response so far. I am working with the 2nd steward in the office, combing through specific language to see if we can set up the proper scenarios to file a grievance and get it going / accepted at the local level to have this type of 2nd trip paid at 1.5 OT plus EMA if you're a POV. It is possible considering this individual (not the 1st steward who has an ego problem and is fairly dumb) has been with the P.O. for nearly 20 years and has served many years in the union in various positions, so I know what he is capable of. I can't help but understand what the contract says, our handbook, what has been settled at the national level, and what we all actually deserve in these situations.

If this doesn't work, as I have heard of the next suggestion in the distant past and forgot about it, we will end up pursuing a grievance hardcore on distribution time. I could file for wait time pay since they won't pay it even if they *authorize* it, but that will just result in my individual report time being changed, and even if it is *managing* aka discrimination as well, its not worth the fight. I have tried twice in the past.

The biggest issue lies with me and about 5 other regulars out of 38 rural routes. Our office always generates a route to 43k or above, due to our heavy expansion. That being said, the 6 of us are very fast carriers with high accuracy. I can walk in the office at 8 a.m. and be loaded up and ready to go by 9:15 - 9:45 a.m.. which is nothing compared to the average regular here who will not manage that until 11:00 a.m. - 1 p.m. That being said, we are seen as the problem, even though those regulars complain about this distribution time issue, they will not file a grievance, even if it means they can remain anonymous through class action.

We have also been told to just slow down and deal with it. Eh, I would say, how about no. During mail count, yes, we did *slow down* to proper amounts to not mess with the route. There is no reason from what I see to be punished by being a very fast carrier while getting paid a high eval, and our office needs so much help that most of us regulars work 1 or both R5's every pay period year round.

Am I missing something out of this equation? I thought this is what set us apart from working on the city side, by the hour, while they provide everything to you *while also hawk eyeing you into the ground for everything you do.* Many city carriers have told me that they have been called by management on the street because "you were here 5 minutes longer than usual. What happened and why?" I couldn't deal with that. My answer would be "because it just did. Now stop calling me and find something productive to do." But hey, that's why management and our various PMs have had to be slapped in the face with class actions from us so they still stop harassing us :)

Edit: I had been informed and saw contractually that management may attempt to "adjust your route" if you are finishing too late in the day past your evaluation, or up to 3+hours faster than your daily evaluation. For one, they would have to do that to their sisters route, since it runs even faster *daily finish time of 11:30-12, as a 44k.* And 2, yeah, I am a 45k, go ahead and add alittle more to my route if you want to pay me. If you add too much to bust it at a 48k, I will file on ya
 
Last edited:

Tammy

Well-known member
Best answers
0
If you are talking about amazon parcels, our office rolls everything not sorted by 900 until the next day. It is up to amazon to have the trucks there in a timely manner so the carriers are not overly burdened waiting. My zip code doesnt get amazon but the others in my office do. Only once in a while are they made to wait any further i.e. they are super close to finishing. Let's just say after a few times amazon has gotten the trucks there earlier.
 

TheDude

Well-known member
Best answers
0
Just about every reply here I have heard before. However, in my case they moved my start time back so far that with a 30 minute lunch I would miss dispatch if I ran to evaluation. I contacted the district rep and she said it was allowed as long as they paid me to deviate to bring the mail back. As a result that went on about 3 days a week for a couple months. At that time they got sick of paying so much 8127 time and said that I was only allowed 2nd trip time to bring back mail for dispatch.

You heard that right. Deviating to make the mail truck qualifies as 2nd trip in our district's eyes. I contacted district rep and she had me fill out a grievance. After a few weeks and no updates I called district rep and was told it was put into abeyance with a Step 4 regarding 2nd trip abuses. This was May of 2018. On the one year anniversary I contacted district rep mentioning my disappointment in the situation and my pessimism in getting paid for this obvious 2nd trip abuse and recieved a 2 word response, "No update."

Since then we got a new PM that moved my start time back up. The main problem is we don't receive our "parcel truck" until ~10am most days. I am instructed to return every day, at the midway point in my route to pick up parcels for addresses I haven't serviced yet and return to the route. How do you think they pay this? You guessed it. 2nd trip time.

Add this malarchy to the fact that we started getting Amazon drops less than a month after the last mail count and you have a recipe for rather disgruntled employees. Disgruntled with not only the P.O. but also with our terrible, terrible union.
 

Risen145

New member
Best answers
0
If you are talking about amazon parcels, our office rolls everything not sorted by 900 until the next day. It is up to amazon to have the trucks there in a timely manner so the carriers are not overly burdened waiting. My zip code doesnt get amazon but the others in my office do. Only once in a while are they made to wait any further i.e. they are super close to finishing. Let's just say after a few times amazon has gotten the trucks there earlier.
Amazon is a primary issue, but this is about management and the PM's inadequacy to properly get parcels up for us in a timely manner. The last truck that arrives is 7:30, and it usually drops between 4-8 containers *BMCS, wire cages, etc.* of parcels. That being said, our office will already have between 20-35+ sitting in it when I walk in the door at 8 a.m. They have been there for a few hours already. Management will not schedule clerks early enough to tackle the issue. They are fully aware of it. They do not care. Over half of the throwing staff, are our own RCA's who won't file because they like the overtime pay.

Also found out our office does enough packages daily to exceed over 500k yearly, and we have less than 75 total routes, where as an office of the same volume usually has over 190 total routes. Woohoo!
 

RDruckus

Well-known member
Best answers
1
If you are talking about amazon parcels, our office rolls everything not sorted by 900 until the next day. It is up to amazon to have the trucks there in a timely manner so the carriers are not overly burdened waiting. My zip code doesnt get amazon but the others in my office do. Only once in a while are they made to wait any further i.e. they are super close to finishing. Let's just say after a few times amazon has gotten the trucks there earlier.
Wow, an office standing up to Amazon. Finally.
 

Morty

Well-known member
Best answers
2
You're not required to provide service to driveways or private roads. Both of which the USPS says does not qualify -m38 430- as a passable road, found in the po603 331.

Leave notices for all excessive driveway parcels.

If ordered to provide service, grieve that the M38 SECTION 430 need be altered. They won't do it, because that would eliminate cluster boxes. A multi million dollar proposition in our favor.

Your DR, ADR, steward are clueless. Do the homework and win.
 

Twingrlie

Well-known member
Best answers
0
Amazon is a primary issue, but this is about management and the PM's inadequacy to properly get parcels up for us in a timely manner. The last truck that arrives is 7:30, and it usually drops between 4-8 containers *BMCS, wire cages, etc.* of parcels. That being said, our office will already have between 20-35+ sitting in it when I walk in the door at 8 a.m. They have been there for a few hours already. Management will not schedule clerks early enough to tackle the issue. They are fully aware of it. They do not care. Over half of the throwing staff, are our own RCA's who won't file because they like the overtime pay.

Also found out our office does enough packages daily to exceed over 500k yearly, and we have less than 75 total routes, where as an office of the same volume usually has over 190 total routes. Woohoo!
Ask your steward to file a class action for the RCAs playing the clerk role. I’m getting ready to in my office.
 

22222

Well-known member
Best answers
0
If the racs are throwing packages the mgnt is keeping budget down, they look great. There is definitely some clever time keeping being done.
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
Best answers
9
Ask your steward to file a class action for the RCAs playing the clerk role. I’m getting ready to in my office.
The Clerks have the Grievance. The Union will not say that mgmt can’t use RCAs for “other duties”. The Union is very aware of the RCAs being used to pitch parcels & do not have issue with it. It gives work to RCAs that would otherwise be sitting at home or allows more work/pay for somebody who wants or needs it.
The individual RCAs could grieve if they are being forced to do these extra duties against their will. Stronger case is if mgmt has an RCA doing non-rural duties instead of Rural Craft work that they are entitled to; i.e. Sub pitching parcels & running parcels while a RDWL carrier is working.
 

btdtret

Well-known member
Best answers
6
22222 et al -- "If the RCA's are throwing packages the mgnt is keeping budget down, they look great. There is definitely some clever time keeping being done. "

-- IMHO -- Manglement may be keeping the office budget in check and also looking great for District, but actually are short changing the office in the long run as they are showing District that more clerks are not really needed.

-- And if the clerks are not grieving, shame on them.
 
Top