a theory on new backing policy

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Why would anyone back into or out of a driveway in the first place....drive in and do your turns.... as many as needed....to pull out. KNOW THE NATIONAL POLICY ON BACKING PEOPLE. YOUR ALL OVER THINKING. 50 ft rule means nothing
Is there somewhere... that the "NATIONAL POLICY ON BACKING" is posted for us all to read???

With such an impressive sounding title, surely it's posted in a nice frame somewhere... :unsure:
 

MiddleOfNowhere

Well-known member
Why would anyone back into or out of a driveway in the first place....drive in and do your turns.... as many as needed....to pull out. KNOW THE NATIONAL POLICY ON BACKING PEOPLE. YOUR ALL OVER THINKING. 50 ft rule means nothing
so your solution to not backing, is to pull into a yard, where there is more chance of animals, kids, or whatever, and back up as many times as needed to turn around, so you can drive out. your definitely management material. why would anyone pull into a driveway in the first place, well maybe that's where the mailbox is. it also happens to be a turnaround point in the route. not everyone gets to drive in a big circle. a national policy on backing, is not a law, it's something arbitrary that management has dreamt up. something like, now backing over 50 feet, or at more than 5 mph.
 

Rt2mailman

Well-known member
Upnorth, there is no written contractual "rule" against backing. There may be "postal policy " but was that policy made clear to you in standups? Hopefully in your PDI you didn't allow them to establish "a fact" that you "knew if this rule". It would be good for you (especially as a steward) to read the "defenses to discipline" found in the steward reference guide under D for discipline. As there are many defenses in this situation, these are ones I would use:
1) Is there a rule?
2) Did you know of the rule?
3) Was this "rule" applied universally across the office? (To all carriers, and employees)
4) Do you have an established time of USPS employment in good standing? (No discipline)
5) Is there reason the the pm could be retaliating against you? (You becoming steward)
6) Are there instances in your office where backing is allowed? This would defeat there being a "rule". As steward you can request to see each route's 4003 to see if backing is written in on routes' lines on travel. (If any carrier backs in order to deliver mail , that should be written in your line of travel).
7)Is there any other "extenuating circumstances " that could have caused you to "violate" this policy? For example an obstacle in a drive way (kid's toy, unseen by the pm riding behind you) that caused you to back instead of using a 3 point turn in your "normal" spot for turning.
8) Is there an automatic discipline "required" by your manager to be given for any specific action without looking into circumstances?
9) Did your manager get collaboration from an upper manager before giving you any discipline?
I'm sure that there are more defenses you can think up, but each and everyone should be used in your defense. Good luck and keep us apprised of your grievance, you are not alone in this fight.
 

btdtret

Well-known member
D.B.Cooper et al -- "Do most POVs have better backing visibility than LLVs??? "

-- I certainly hope so!! Considering an LLV doesn't have any rear windows nor side windows. Sure the FSS has one side window on the left - big deal.

-- Back in the day, AMC made a smaller postal van that had 3 maybe 4 "windows" in the rear door and side windows on the left side. Even a set of small windows below the wind shield so the driver could see what was out in front of the vehicle. Too bad the USPS didn't consider enlarging the AMC van instead of seeking bids for the NGDV.
 

PastOThirty

Well-known member
Our pm and all surrounding pms get a report that details the scammer identified infractions to help them determine who they can justifiably harass or harangue. I saw it once onscreen, the first week of the broad use, and don’t recall the details made available or criteria that tallies no-no’s.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
D.B.Cooper et al -- "Do most POVs have better backing visibility than LLVs??? "

-- I certainly hope so!! Considering an LLV doesn't have any rear windows nor side windows. Sure the FSS has one side window on the left - big deal.

-- Back in the day, AMC made a smaller postal van that had 3 maybe 4 "windows" in the rear door and side windows on the left side. Even a set of small windows below the wind shield so the driver could see what was out in front of the vehicle. Too bad the USPS didn't consider enlarging the AMC van instead of seeking bids for the NGDV.
If these drastic NO BACKING policies are based upon LLV pi$$ poor visibility... then why should they be imposed on POVs that have rear and side windows... seems ridiculous to me... :oops:
 

neciat

Active member
I'm not even too sure that these backing alerts all that accurate anyway. I live on the coast. Okay, one day it showed one of our city carriers OFFSHORE. Not like his little icon was along a coastal highway and it showed him half on the highway and the other half sorta kinda on the beach. It had him WAY offshore. I'm talking U.S. Coast Guard offshore. Awhile back, and they "may have" corrected this one of many bugs in the system, the report showed me still on the street only halfway through my route and I had been back in the office about 30 minutes. So, I am not confident at all in these reports or alerts. Besides, it's all about our pay under the guise of safety.
 

Windindaface

Well-known member
Postal Times 7/16/18. The funny part is finding note on door without a package.

In June, the USPS reinforced a ‘no backing policy’ that their drivers would not drop off packages to people’s homes they could not properly turn around at.
Instead, they now receive notes on their doors telling them to pick up their packages at the local post office.
One Barren County resident said she is more frustrated about not being notified about the change prior.
“My concern is more for everybody else because I can try to make accommodations to get my packages but there’s a lot of people out there who can’t,” said Beverly Braun, Barren County resident.
After reaching out to the post office about the policy, they said the following:
“The Postal Service takes great pride in delivering the mail to every customer in a safe manner. Our carriers will not enter a customer’s property where no safe turnaround is available to avoid an unnecessary backing situation. If a customer has a concern with any delivery issue, they should contact their local post office to work toward a mutually agreeable solution.”


Also from Postal Times 8/11/17....
These discussions stem from some issues mail carriers face in the rural areas of Jackson and Josephine counties.
The ideal situation for a letter carrier is a circular driveway or a driveway that has enough space for a vehicle to drive in, deliver and turnaround before heading back onto the main road.
However, in more rural areas of the community, the streets are so narrow that often drivers find themselves backing up onto oncoming traffic.
“Safety being obviously a top priority for the postal service, there’s some discussion throughout Oregon, about making sure our letter carriers and so forth perform their job safely,” said Peter Haas, the regional USPS spokesperson.
An idea is to install a barcode on the back of the postal vehicles, which would require drivers to get out, scan it to verify they’ve checked their surroundings before proceeding out.
 

Rt2mailman

Well-known member
I see that additional scan going the way of wheel chocks, and satchels, stopped as soon as they realize they will have to pay for this "safety precaution ".
It is possible that realizing RRECKS will be adding hours to rural routes that are currently being "serviced" for free, the USPS saw "a way out" by pissing off the entire customer base until they use another company, but not likely. Not even I believe they are that stupid.
I believe this was an idea thought up by some upper manager that thinks this will rid the USPS of all backing accidents. That will never happen when almost all carriers back into or away from the designated parking spot for their delivery vehicle. We need to back to deliver to our customers. Take that away and our customers will have Congress pulling intestines from postal managers.
 

btdtret

Well-known member
PastOThirty -- "Our pm and all surrounding pms get a report that details the scammer identified infractions to help them determine who they can justifiably harass or harangue."

-- Apparently the folks at NRLCA HQ has not yet gotten around to telling the USPS -- no discipline ( or harassment ) based solele on scanner data.
 

btdtret

Well-known member
Faceindawind et al -- "An idea is to install a barcode on the back of the postal vehicles, which would require drivers to get out, scan it to verify they’ve checked their surroundings before proceeding out. "

-- Apparently calmer heads prevailed when it was pointed out that it would be ( yet an additional ) scan to be preformed by rural carriers and as a new tasking, would require payment.

-- Maybe some bean counter took a look at a "typical" carrier getting out numerous times a day to check on what is behind the LLV ( doesn't anyone use the pot lid mirror any more? ) and realized the seconds and minutes soon turn into hours, which in the long run would be considered something to be added to the "unoffical" list of "unproductive" things rural carriers do on a daily basis.

-- To add to the misery, why limit it to backing? A carrier may be away from the delivery vehicle for several minutes while making a delivery to the customer's door. Who knows what has been happening around or under the delivery vehicle? Better do a walk around each time one is away from the vehicle. How much will that add to the carrier who has 100+ dismounts a day for large parcels or other items?

-- Would be nice if manglement spent as much time figuring how to reduce LLV fires as they do to combat backing incidents.

-- How good are the scanners when scanning in pouring rain or pounding sleet?

-- Since the back of vehicle tend to get dirty, will cleaning the bar code off occasionally be "built-in"?
 

UpNorth

Member
I received a 7 day Working suspension for the backing that was observed two weeks ago. I was given a letter of warning 2 weeks ago for missed scans that were not missed. I have enough documentation to fight that but how do you fight someone who is trying to get you canned?
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I received a 7 day Working suspension for the backing that was observed two weeks ago. I was given a letter of warning 2 weeks ago for missed scans that were not missed. I have enough documentation to fight that but how do you fight someone who is trying to get you canned?
You start with grieving any and ALL discipline... and then file a few other grievances, just for good measure... harassment, hostile work environment, disparate treatment are some potential candidates...
 

UpNorth

Member
I believe they got the picture that I was not aware of the rule. I stated the only reason I knew that there was a discussion is because another carrier asked me about backing and I said I did not know anything new and when he heard this. They said on your day off and laughed (because some can see that all important discussions, “parties”, etc. happen on my day off). I told them the only thing we are being harped on is backing more than 50ft ( I have not heard the 5mph “rule” until rereading this thread).

1) There is no rule, just a postal policy?
2) I was not aware of the rule.
3) I believe others knew this rule before me but do not believe they follow all. We have a carrier that takes their satchel rolled up and rubber banded out every day and back every day, rubber band never moves.
4) I have had no discipline for 1 1/2 years, in two different offices, until this OIC started late February.
5) I was not a steward when the OIC started but I called them on a couple things and I do not think they liked it. During a later discussion, I told the OIC that I have a problem with being treated differently; I think they took that as a challenge. After a couple more instances, I decided to become a steward. I have also become vocal about the lies when there have been meetings between us or with ADR, flat out asking them to quit lying.
6) I have a lot of backing but it is worded “retrace” on 4003 I believe. I will look at all of them.
7) I do not believe there were extenuating circumstances. I pulled into one driveway without a turnaround, but I am very aware of the 50 ft rule. I made sure I parked before then and walked the package up. She was out on the road, about a 1/2 block down, she could not even hear if I turned off the vehicle. The second backing, did have an extra car there so I parked at an angle so I barley had to back up. She was parked over a half a block of wooded area, plus a county road, at a stop sign across that road. Again, it was wooded and I could barely see her parked over there. When I left that driveway, she was waiting and told me about the two backings and satchel. I told her I did not know about the backing policy other than 50 feet and that I walked around the vehicle. She told me I did not walk around the vehicle and not to “play stupid” about the rules.
8) I do not know if required but I always heard if you were bit by a dog, you would be fired. That did not happen here, there was not even an accident report. Management just said, “You had your satchel with you, right”. I know they did not.
9) There was no collaboration, that I know of, with the LOW, but yes, there appears to be on the 7 day.

Thanks
 

UpNorth

Member
Thank you Btdtret.

-I will definitely ask, "Why did they wait until the THIRD violation?" The first safety violation should have been enough!!

-I did not receive any training in the use of the satchel but asked for it when I asked for a written directive.

-I have given the OIC two written requests for the directive on the distance we are to walk for delivery of these packages per that conversation but have not received one yet.

-Please, I do not want anyone to take me wrong; I am not too lazy to walk to the package to my customers. It is the point, if you know what I mean. I was actually told to leave a 3849 and I asked for another option and was told to walk it up (that was what the observer said). I asked the OIC about the distance to walk, they said two car lengths, and they stated it would be faster on the route that way. I have been walking packages up more than 2 car lengths and it is not making anything faster. What is next, over evaluation?

-We are all about “safety”. In fact, we do not report anything so we are perfect. Carrier bit by dog and only thing said was, “you had your satchel with you, right.”

-Definitely no one else getting the attention I am, except the pet sub but opposite attention!
 

UpNorth

Member
You were sand-bagged.
Your opinion is correct.
I'm dubious about the satchel thing, my abrasive PM gave up on that when I timed it and demanded a base hour change in writing.
Please, if you have a good steward, call them asap. Call DR.
Did they film you? Can't scanner data be used to prove they lied? Are they trying to give next sub your job?
There's a lot going on here. CYA.

-I do not know if they filmed me but there maybe pictures of how far away the observer was. They followed me without lights, then lights, did not use blinkers, then lights on, then flashers on; I found that part amusing since this PM/Observer said they were also the safety ambassador.

-I am confused about the scanner data showing they lied? What can I ask for?

-I have a couple friend's who say that they think someone wants my job and the only sub is the pet and does nothing wrong.

Thank you
 
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