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<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>D.B.Cooper said </strong>
So what... now they're gonna do the hustle and get this contract negotiations finished BEFORE we have the details of the Time Study???  How much BS is that???

Are we gonna vote on a contract with no details about the Time Study???  <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />  </blockquote>
Did you read that "National office is not happy with the results"? This was what I and a few others mentioned in the "Working off the Clock" thread regarding other factors that affect the bump. I fear many standards will be lowered. Box factor "L" route = 18 seconds a day. Normal route 20 seconds a day. Time that. If the pitch n ditch crowd were measured, watch out!
 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cangonow said </strong>
From our state newsletter....at this time the engineers are plugging in info from our mailcount. The USPS wants a Sept mailcount, but this is unlikely due to the work that must yet be completed, such as updated manuals, and finish mapping.<strong> <span style="color: #0000ff">At this time the national office is not happy with the results and has serious questions as to whether the USPS can maintain the data and be consistent and transparent.</span></strong> <strong><span style="color: #ff0000">A June release is possible if an extension is agreed to. Contract negotiations may be concluded before the release.</span> </strong>Mapping of every route is still a demand of the union. The number of standards will increase from 42 to 115 plus the driving standards will bring that total to around 200. Because of the numerous factors involved, state officers will probably be utilized in the implementation process. As far as new vehicles...one has been selected but there is not likely to be a roll out before 2020. Nice to get at least some new information.  </blockquote>
This was the part I was referring to... (highlighted in<strong><span style="color: #ff0000"> red</span></strong>)

But yes, why be unhappy with something (Time Study) and then hurry up and get the contract negotiated??? 

I smell a rat... I think this study thing is gonna be a REAL stinker... <img title="Frown" alt="Frown" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-frown.gif" />
 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>12345 said </strong>
Contrary to popular opinion you can make a difference. I have attended state conventions where the rank and file have overturned board decisions such as pay raises for the board and dues being retained by the state instead of being returned to the locals. We have reversed other decisions but those are what I remember best.   </blockquote>
Anyone that has wanted to get involved can be involved in the union.  All the way from a local county president, vp, and secretary up to the state board.  Not everyone is going to agree on what the solution to the problem is, but if all you ever do to add to the conversation is forum post about how you don't like the direction of the union.  Then you really are not helping yourself or the union in and out of itself.  The NRLCA is us carriers at a base level, and we have let it go too far without common sense being involved.  All this can be wrapped around people not being involved.  Prime example is state conventions.  Some states have 2,000 plus rural carriers/rcas, but convention time comes there's a big celebrations when 200 people being is breaking records. 

If you want to help make your job/career a better place it takes getting involved, and no its not going to happen immediately.  Unfortunately, we have to work in the only system they have given us to work until someone proposes and follows through on another.  So many eyes are constantly coming in and out of this site.  With quite a few giving their opinions.  I respect and see everyone's opinions here, but we can't continues to fuss at a computer screen and believe the worst.

That being said, I've been to a few state and a few times to SAC.  There are people that are there for the right reasons.  They need us locally to get involved to support them and hell some of us should look to be involved on a State Board level.  For the people on this forum find a way to be involved, get your opinion out there in a respectful manner, and work toward the long goal.  Getting the change we want is never going to happen in the short term, but it can happen if we really get out there and try in the long run.
 
Cangonow -- "at this time the engineers are plugging in info from our mailcount."

--  All well and good, but with so many new standards, how can the new standards be "plugged" into the recent "old standards" mail count?  Were some counters taking notes during count?

"The number of standards will increase from 42 to 115 plus the driving standards will bring that total to around 200. "

--  That is a bit scary to see something like 85 new "driving standards".  Were any mentioned or hinted at?

" As far as new vehicles…one has been selected but there is not likely to be a roll out before 2020. "

--  Not to doubt your officials, but I'd think the USPS selecting <strong>the</strong> manufacturer of the NGDV and its potential multi-billion $ contract would have made the news, although the 2020 roll out date seems "reasonable".  There are a few Google hits from 2016 indicating Mahindra was selected for the NGDV, but it was just to make a prototype vehicle in the competition.
 
Here's the Mahindra.<img title="mahindra.jpg" alt="mahindra.jpg" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/faceindawind/2018/05/mahindra.jpg" />
 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<strong>btdtret said </strong>
Cangonow -- "at this time the engineers are plugging in info from our mailcount."

--  All well and good, but with so many new standards, how can the new standards be "plugged" into the recent "old standards" mail count?  Were some counters taking notes during count?

"The number of standards will increase from 42 to 115 plus the driving standards will bring that total to around 200. "

--  That is a bit scary to see something like 85 new "driving standards".  Were any mentioned or hinted at?

" As far as new vehicles…one has been selected but there is not likely to be a roll out before 2020. "

--  Not to doubt your officials, but I'd think the USPS selecting <strong>the</strong> manufacturer of the NGDV and its potential multi-billion $ contract would have made the news, although the 2020 roll out date seems "reasonable".  There are a few Google hits from 2016 indicating Mahindra was selected for the NGDV, but it was just to make a prototype vehicle in the competition.  

</blockquote>
btdtret, As I mentioned, I am only repeating info that was shared in our state paper. Maybe they are putting in information that can be used in the new system that was gathered from this recent mailcount such as boxes, miles and mail volumes. While I thought that mail volumes were going to be used from an annual gathering, we haven't really had that confirmed, or much of anything confirmed. Maybe these new added standards will cover all or most of the built ins? None of the new standards were mentioned. I too have all kinds of questions!
 
Doesn't the MOU on this Study Beast say it will be implemented during the 1st mail count AFTER it is completed???

So is anybody thinking that will actually be at the end of this September???

I'm still puzzled at the NRLCA comments about not being happy, but indicating they may try to conclude contract negotiations in record time... when was the last time we got a new contract, earlier than a year or 3 after the old one had expired???  <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
 
I heard a rumor that time for miles was going to be route specific.  Some might get 8 mins per mile and some 18.      

I can see the union being upset about the 1000's of route in "RURAL" areas were they have about a mile between boxes and drive 60 mph during 3 seasons of the year losing time.  Might actually mean those carriers finally withdraw from the union; especially when they drive 10 mph during the winter months

Could you imagine getting 1 min per mile............  and then during winter get the same 1 min when it takes you 6 minutes

 

If they are going to start doing crap like that instead of standardizing the time value, JUST PUT US ON THE DAMN CLOCK AND LET US JOIN THE ONLY UNION THAT REPRESENTS CARRIERS............   the National Association of Letter Carriers..........   They wouldn't even have to change their name..........  letter carriers!!!
 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>dumbolehickfromms said </strong>
I heard a rumor that time for miles was going to be route specific.  Some might get 8 mins per mile and some 18.      

I can see the union being upset about the 1000's of route in "RURAL" areas were they have about a mile between boxes and drive 60 mph during 3 seasons of the year losing time.  Might actually mean those carriers finally withdraw from the union; especially when they drive 10 mph during the winter months

Could you imagine getting 1 min per mile............  and then during winter get the same 1 min when it takes you 6 minutes

</blockquote>
1 minute per mile would be ridiculous.  But so is me getting 2 minutes oer mile on an L route with 717 customers and 20.5 miles.  The speed limit on my route is 25mph except for a 1 mile stretch.  No way I am making a 2 minute mile ever.

There does need to be a better number for both situations.  Some routes will lose time and some would gain but it should be made closer to fair for both L and non L routes.  2 standards is my solution idea
 
Latest, super dooper newsletter from national has a tremendous spread about the national convention. Our fuhrer talks about da trump's putting together a black and blue ribbon panel ( with no employee representation on it) to right all that is wrong and drain our swamp.

Is it just me, or should we have seen at least a smidgeon on the most important thing to come down the pike for rural carriers?

Nah.....Zip on the engineering study.

Why would I expect less from a gang who think it is more important to let us know where the good golf courses are by the convention than to do their friggin jobs and let us know what is going on.

Ludicrous... (my new favorite word whenever I see or hear the letters USPS or NRLCA )
 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>klutz said </strong>
Latest, super dooper newsletter from national has a tremendous spread about the national convention. Our fuhrer talks about da trump's putting together a black and blue ribbon panel ( with no employee representation on it) to right all that is wrong and drain our swamp.

Is it just me, or should we have seen at least a smidgeon on the most important thing to come down the pike for rural carriers?

Nah.....Zip on the engineering study.

Why would I expect less from a gang who think it is more important to let us know where the good golf courses are by the convention than to do their friggin jobs and let us know what is going on.

Ludicrous... (my new favorite word whenever I see or hear the letters USPS or NRLCA )  </blockquote>
I'm sure some Kool Aide drinker will get on here and explain how it's all our fault that the NRLCA is so effing ineffective and clueless...  and how we should just be thankful to keep on paying their ever-inflating dues, so they can continue blaming us for THEIR failures... Geezy Louisy... if my pay had gone up over the past 10 years as much as my dues have... hail, I'd be saying pass me some of that Kool Aide too...  <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>D.B.Cooper said </strong>

I'm sure some Kool Aide drinker will get on here and explain how it's all our fault that the NRLCA is so effing ineffective and clueless...  and how we should just be thankful to keep on paying their ever-inflating dues, so they can continue blaming us for THEIR failures... Geezy Louisy... if my pay had gone up over the past 10 years as much as my dues have... hail, I'd be saying pass me some of that Kool Aide too...  <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />  </blockquote>
Well, I am far from a kool aide drinker, but I will say this.  I have been with the post office since I was a TRC back in 2010, RCA 2011, Regular 2016.  I have paid my union dues ever since I was an RCA, but always felt disconnect as if the union wasn't apart of our office.  I have been extremely lucky in my going regular so quick, and I am thankful for that.  My office has always been a small 12 route office where nothing was ever pushed to the union because management left the rural side alone.  We did our jobs and went home.  

Back in 2014, I was skipped on a Saturday work on a route.  I grieved to the ADR assigned to my area.  To my knowledge this was during the time Steward system was being reworked from the assistant state stewards or something.  I felt so disconnected from the grievance.  When I talked to the steward there wasn't much interaction.  It seemed as if he was going through the motions.  I felt my case was strong, but I was just an RCA who wasn't involved in how to handle grievance.  I didn't even know what a viable grievance was.  My case gets appealed to Step 2 and dies to my knowledge.  The only form of communication was through a letter the steward sent me.  Nothing else what so ever.  I called when I received the letter.  He replied its being handled.  So to say the least my first form of interaction with the union was pretty bad.  I second guessed my dues and all.

2016 comes and we are an office that postmaster like to cycle through on their way through the postal management job ladder.  We receive an Postmaster who was just looking to move up the chain.  Constantly out of the office serving as a stand in IMPU or however the title is.  He started to create a really bad work environment.  Attempting to manage us heavily as city carriers.  Constant breaking of the Union agreements.  A few carriers and I went to a district meeting.  We voiced our opinion, and afterwards an ADR I had never met comes up and is talking about how to solve the issues and trying to convince us to get a local steward in the office to deal with the problems on the ground level.  A lot of things a ADR can do, but a Local Steward has the common office knowledge typical that a ADR can't get easily.  

We had a local election for a steward at the first county meeting in our area for at least 20 years.  Everyone from my office but 2 carriers showed up.  The ADR that was at the district meeting came down to be involved in our county meeting.  We elected a county president, vp, and secretary, as well as a delegate to go to the state convention last year.  Within 6 months of our local steward being trained, they had won 4 grievances, and stopped numerous other bogus attempts at management crossing silly lines they shouldn't have even thought about.  

D.B. Cooper, I'm sure your frustration is well deserved with the union through the years. But serious be honest how do thing get any better if all we do is constantly b*tch about it in private, on the workroom floor, or on these forums.  I only have said getting personally invested in the union instead of trusting other to do it for you because my office has been a good office in the past.  We were invaded by upper management nonsense.  No we don't win every encounter with them, but we win enough to give us peace of mind the union is here for us when we need them... Yeah I don't agree with somethings, i.e. two different pay scales for RCA and Regulars, but the NRLCA our way of stepping up and pushing back.  And in order to affect change on the National level we need the common sense no bullsh*t people on the ground level to want to be involved and get up there to make it right.

And with your due raises, your dues only go up when you receive a COLA pay raise that was negotiate by the NRLCA.  That the post office attempted to axe in the last contract, but we kept those raises thanks to the NRLCA attorneys.  Its a small fraction, but it helps the union operate.  And it is starting to put more focus on the ground level.  I.E. training local stewards, anyone that wants to be a steward can hold an election and win.  Then the NRLCA will pay for two days training plus mileage for that person to be trained.  

Good things are going on all around you in this union, and you don't have to be drunk off the Kool Aide to see it.  /sorry for the rant/ 
 
Our local management told us that they were informed that on June 5 the new system would be unveiled. Our super mentioned that there are still some provisions and the date of implementation is not clear. Not much but a little news...although its all hearsay.
 
Instead of offering $$$ incentives I wish they would offer time incentives. I have 37.5 yrs in and over 300 days sick time banked up. Just move me up to full time served and I'll gladly leave.
 
Cangonow -- "Our local management told us that they were informed that on June 5 the new system would be unveiled. "

--  Interesting.   Introducing a new system on a Tuesday.

--  "Unveiling" instead of "implementing"?  Should be an interesting Stand-Up!

--  Take copious notes to pass along.
 
Take 2 it's Tuesday a lighter day of mostly 3rd to deliver unless a day after a holiday. If no holiday catch up on FED UPS  Azon if no Sunday delivery. Keep EVAL alive. 

What time standards do you think will be implemented first in the proposed phased in time frame with the possibility of results lasting through the next contract? Those that save or cost? There is no written documentation of this IE being mandated I'm aware of  to be enforced all at once or equally. This time up, this time down so we carriers are aware where we will fall at the end?

A dry big bitter pill to swallow for years to come. 
 
Well by my best guess...March 29th is 90 days... It is put up, shut up or kick the can down the road day...

The last "communication" from nrlca was way back in Feb. On Feb 28th usps and nrlca gave the head of the study over 20 recommendations. nrlca said they'd keep us posted.....Silence since then.... WTF?

Do you really think this thing is finally going to be decided now?
 
90 days from FEB 28th puts one at May 29th 2018. The 27th was start of a new pay period but also a holiday weekend. I worked this day and did not here a peep. Will work Tuesday and doubt a peep will be heard because of the long weekend. Hmmm, near full moon an expired contract and coincidence? 
 
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