Any new info?

Charlie Brown

Well-known member
This is unscientific:

These are some of the partial results of a route over 48K. If I didn't make any mistakes in the calculator.
Box/NDCBU time factor = Loss of 773 minutes ( combined times because the route is only credited once to verify address, two bundle system)
Raw Letters= Gain of 11 minutes
DPS letters= Loss of 248 minutes ( no credit unless 2nd run or less than 400 , only credit in verifying address ? )
Flats = Loss of 47 minutes ( used highest standard, even lower for presort and walk sequence flats)
Parcels = Gain of 727 minutes ( A lot of guessing. Assumed 50% large parcels. Walking distance- I walk 3+ miles a day. I
assumed 2.5 for parcels. Assumed route receives credit for Prelim & conclude at vehicle, and Gather large parcel,for each dismount.)
Boxholders= Gained 52 minutes ( All flats)( if letters, .01 less than old standard)
Scans = Loss of 235 minutes ( no credit, built into parcel credit)
Letters/Flats collected= Loss of 25 minutes ( no standard)
Stamp stock= Loss of 20 minutes ( unless I sell some stamps, then actual time)
Office/Personal= Loss of 25 minutes ( only credits I see are complete trip report and move trays to storage)
No idea how to do the mail/parcel retreival.
Didn't include new strapping out.

Didn't include additional RRECS input scans.
No Drive Speed Matrix or other driving standards. ( will it make up for the losses?)
TL;DR- Loss of 583 Minutes
So there's a loss of almost 600 minutes on the fixed credits (minus miles) and mail volume. If for instance this is a 50 mile route then the miles standards (for this route) will have to double to make up for the loss of time on the mail. Worse yet if this is a 30 mile route the miles standard (for this route) would have to more than triple to make up for the lost time. I don't see the miles time factor doubling or tripling. It should be higher but this doesn't look good.
 

Charlie Brown

Well-known member
583 minutes per week, divided by 6 = 97.16 minutes per day... less than 1 hour and 40 minutes per day... :unsure:
I'm no expert on this beast, but I would guess that maybe the driving standards could make up for that??? :whistle:
D.B I may be wrong here and I just posted on this but if the routes down 97 minutes per day look at it this way. So the route already gets 2 minutes per mile per day a 30 mile route gets 60 minutes credit per day already for miles. Do you think that the route under the new system is going to get another 97 minutes or a total of 157 minutes per day for the miles? That's what it would take just to keep the current evaluation under this scenario.
 

FrozenToes

Well-known member
D.B I may be wrong here and I just posted on this but if the routes down 97 minutes per day look at it this way. So the route already gets 2 minutes per mile per day a 30 mile route gets 60 minutes credit per day already for miles. Do you think that the route under the new system is going to get another 97 minutes or a total of 157 minutes per day for the miles? That's what it would take just to keep the current evaluation under this scenario.

Your #121 post is correct. The route is around 50 miles. I hope I made some wrong assumptions or a mistake. I would be interested in comparing low mileage/high CBU routes, high mileage routes and routes with DPS flats.
 

Windindaface

Well-known member
Thanks Frozen.. But their is a lot of guesstimation going on here. Hitting on a few topics of my concern.

As of now there is no dimension requirement of what qualifies as large, medium, small parcels described in what has been released. What will determine this? Pass scanner? Ring scanner? Or something else in the line of sorting? IE.. a customer has a lock box with standard size slot, meds will not fit into slot requiring dismount to door. Part of plotting or scanner input? See a battle here. I can get item into box but customer has to buy a back scratcher to fish item out because their hands are to big to retrieve item out of box that I stuffed in.

As to NDCBUS and parcel locker toss.. I do not have any. I have a POB section. Close but same story. Wouldn't it be to ones advantage to scan various items randomly as one distributes for maximum credit?

DPS better be 100%. If I riffle through this crap and find one letter for the next house or five + houses down I'm off to next location. If it was only 1 letter wrong to bad. You are not paying me to look at the next letter.

We will figure out a way to beat this beast.
 

FrozenToes

Well-known member
Thanks Frozen.. But their is a lot of guesstimation going on here. Hitting on a few topics of my concern.

As of now there is no dimension requirement of what qualifies as large, medium, small parcels described in what has been released. What will determine this? Pass scanner? Ring scanner? Or something else in the line of sorting? IE.. a customer has a lock box with standard size slot, meds will not fit into slot requiring dismount to door. Part of plotting or scanner input? See a battle here. I can get item into box but customer has to buy a back scratcher to fish item out because their hands are to big to retrieve item out of box that I stuffed in.

As to NDCBUS and parcel locker toss.. I do not have any. I have a POB section. Close but same story. Wouldn't it be to ones advantage to scan various items randomly as one distributes for maximum credit?

DPS better be 100%. If I riffle through this crap and find one letter for the next house or five + houses down I'm off to next location. If it was only 1 letter wrong to bad. You are not paying me to look at the next letter.

We will figure out a way to beat this beast.


As I read it, the parcel size only matters when determining the "organize parcel" credit. It is determined by our scanner input. ( large-taken to door, small/medium- delivered to mailbox or parcel locker)
The delivery credits are again determined by our scanners.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Face (or Wind, if you prefer)... I know whenever somebody calls up looking for a missing parcel, they have *some* size info already on all of the parcels in the computer... I know at a minimum they have the weight... not sure about the dimensions tho??? :unsure:
 

btdtret

Well-known member
Faceindawind et al -- Apparently size will matter when dealing with "wrecks" ( RRECS ). A parcel that may easily fit in one mail box may be too big for another mail box.

-- NDCBU's -- Back when CD's were the rage ( like in the last part of the last century ), CD's would fit in the back of NDCBU's -- BUT because the way the front was designed, the customer couldn't get the CD out, resulting is some "colorful" complaints via the phone.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
D.B I may be wrong here and I just posted on this but if the routes down 97 minutes per day look at it this way. So the route already gets 2 minutes per mile per day a 30 mile route gets 60 minutes credit per day already for miles. Do you think that the route under the new system is going to get another 97 minutes or a total of 157 minutes per day for the miles? That's what it would take just to keep the current evaluation under this scenario.
I dunno... I was just trying to hold out some false hope that maybe we're not (once again) screwed... but it truly may be another one of those SSDD scenarios where we've gotten the shaft again... after a couple of DECADES of it going this way, why is it that we are still foolish enuf to still try to have some hope??? :cry:
 

Shafted

Well-known member
Why do you think I decided to use the handle “Shafted”? Haha. This craft has deteriorated so badly. Haha
 

FrozenToes

Well-known member
To all, my apologies. I was way off on box/NDCBU loss. 578 minutes too much. For whatever reason, I added the mileage time factor into the box/NDCBU loss. Overall 5 minute loss. Thank you Wind. You motivated me to go over the numbers again.
 
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PastOThirty

Well-known member
Face (or Wind, if you prefer)... I know whenever somebody calls up looking for a missing parcel, they have *some* size info already on all of the parcels in the computer... I know at a minimum they have the weight... not sure about the dimensions tho??? :unsure:
The specific dimensions aren’t included, but it does show a few helpful, but subtle clues. It shows:
- item postage classifier (parcel select, parcel select lightweight, priority express, and so on)
- weight
- postage paid (maybe mis-remembered but helps when extra service is attached, like signature confirmation return receipts)
- truer, fuller scan history that shows internal events

It used to be that using internal events, you could somehow search a PASS system for an image of barcoded side of the item to have a better idea of what to look for. Our current crop of stups don’t know how, and don’t seem to care about that resource. Instead they hand us the list of internal events and interpolated location of scan when available overlaid to google maps and send us snipe hunting.
 
Windindaface said---- We will figure out a way to beat this beast.

This is why we love or hate the evaluated system. I have been able to consistently beat weekly evaluation. Most weeks my sub and I are under by 10 or more hours. Last Christmas was the first time in about 30 years that I did not beat weekly evaluation. However, I see how with the present system it is about impossible for some routes to even come close. I appreciate FrozenToes efforts to develop a way of looking at the new system. It is going to take some effort on our part to put data in the calculator to see where routes stand.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
At one point in the "time study" fiasco... they were floating rumors that 80% or 90% of all carriers were supposed to be able to beat these new standards... somebody (maybe us) needs to remember this (false) advertising, and remind the NRLCA of it as they negotiate future contracts... for all the good it will (or won't) do... :rolleyes:
 

Rt2mailman

Well-known member
On my route taking parcels to the door adds almost 5 minutes/parcel, which I currently do for free. The needed street data inputs will show this extra time needed for my route, where the # of slot boxes grow each day. When you key in, delivered at door or to individual you get the at door credit in the new system. That time alone will give me 150 minutes/day(if I deliver my average 30 parcels/day to the door) plus extra mileage all of which I currently get nothing. These may be high hopes, but it's something that keeps me going until I get the "shaft" again.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
The specific dimensions aren’t included, but it does show a few helpful, but subtle clues. It shows:
- item postage classifier (parcel select, parcel select lightweight, priority express, and so on)
- weight
- postage paid (maybe mis-remembered but helps when extra service is attached, like signature confirmation return receipts)
- truer, fuller scan history that shows internal events

It used to be that using internal events, you could somehow search a PASS system for an image of barcoded side of the item to have a better idea of what to look for. Our current crop of stups don’t know how, and don’t seem to care about that resource. Instead they hand us the list of internal events and interpolated location of scan when available overlaid to google maps and send us snipe hunting.
If the PASS system is imaging parcels... gotta sort of believe there is technology for it to determine the dimensions, and we already established they have weight and other info... :unsure:
 

Windindaface

Well-known member
Image all you want. What shall be credited with those who have Hardship dismounts? I've been scanning these as left at door. Why because their city box is at the door or I could shove item(S) through the slot in the door.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Save your money and don’t go to the meeting. Anything at the local meeting is hearsay anyway. No info is disseminated to the masses, because jeannie in the bottle, and her crew of uselessness isn’t going to tell anyone anything, until some act of god, or court order, or, riot, or strike forces their hand. Hey is it that people only think this study is three years overdue. It is 16 years overdue according to the Wells decision I believe. Both sides buried the award, and cohabitated in bed together, until the next arbitrator called them out on the carpet about it. This is a disgrace to our craft.
Sounds like an accurate assessment to me... :unsure:
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
D.B. What do you call a cross between senior usps management and nrlca management?..........stupidity X 2...
Since our "union" is really just an "ass"... and we know how "dumb" our mngt really is.... I thought combining them would equal = DUMB ASS :oops:
 

Wsopgal

Active member
The satchel I have sits on the step of the table side of LLV. Removed it the other day because it was growing mold from the snow covered windshield protector that I place atop of it when the season is here. The trick to laying a "patch" with the llv is... as reversing pop it into N continue roll back, rev motor and slap that puppy into drive.

Satchel concept conceived by a non delivery person or a rural before 50lb dog chow deliveries. Most useless item ever. Where are most heavy item placed when delivering? So one gets out the front with satchel, scanner and dog spray on hip. Go to back of ride to retrieve chow, where does the satchel go? I need to use my key. If I place satchel atop of 50lb of dog chow how am I to use it if both hands are full of kibble? Nudge it off with my chin? Sorry chow is getting dropped. I admit I don't use satchel. I was never properly educated at training 20 years ago or received any when issued except "you need to use this at known dog locations". That's why I have Dog Warning Cards for every dog known on route. Got credit for all last time counted because scanner inputs never made. What happened to that concept? Did it go the way of Load Leveling? Oh, you might have to pay us for these more than the card value to clear the Brick in order to scan.

Back to the IE... the little wizard is not about to come out from behind the curtain to reveal the results because we are all driving the Yellow Brick Road and delivering a lot for free. Talk about get along to move along. This extended wait only proves that they are both talking now about the results and we will never see the actual times by this study, only a prior negotiated allowance when a new contract is offered. Don't worry the changes in the contract will be presented as abbreviated and highlighted in red so one can see important issues pertaining to their given situation and do not have to read all highlighted areas.

This way they can assure less than 30% turn out for the contract vote.
I don't have a satchel. They tell us to carry a tub. Seriously......a tub. Put that on top of the kibble.....
 
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