Can management force a new apartment complex onto my route?

CRG6

Member
I’m a two month new rural regular.
Today my postmaster walks into my case and informs me that the brand new apartment complex (with 150+ apartments) that is opening up across the street was added to my route. I asked, isn’t this something that has to be agreed upon, she said “no you are the smallest route in the office so it’s going on yours”.

Can management just do that? All the other rural carriers in my office seem to believe that it’s something that should be negotiated on between myself and the PM. And that my contract was to do my route as it was when i bid and won it. How can management just alter my route?
For context, I am a 43J with 500 stops. So my route is not actually that small.

Second, when I asked how I would get paid, the PM says she doesn’t know yet. But that she would update my route in the system every pay period when new people move into each apartment. This seems insane to me! Shes basically telling me to do work first and hope to get paid down the line.

Shouldnt the apartments be evaluated first? How do they know how much to pay me? How many steps to each box? What if i have parcels to deliver to a third floor? And how can they pay me per tenant? Shouldnt they just pay me for each unit regardless of occupancy?

What should i do? When i start getting mail and parcels, just refuse to do it? The whole thing seems crazy to me, and as a new inexperienced regular I don’t even know where to start to fight this or argue without getting in trouble.

Side notes:
1) If i am forced to accept this, should i record my hours? When i became regular they offered me hourly or evaluation for the first few pay periods, to learn the route. I don’t see how this is different. Especially if it hasnt actually been evaluated. I have to go spend the busy season trying to learn an entire new complex while working in the dark because of daylight savings.

2) A veteran co-worker has said that the past PM put the last new apartments onto an aux route. Having an RCA do it hourly, until it got settled in, full, and evaluated to be put onto a regular route. That seems like the actual proper way to do it.

3) I don’t think technically these apartments are on my line of travel. They are across the street from the PO on the other side of a highway. My first and last stops are about 2 miles away. In fact the street addresses before and after the apartment, are delivered by a different route and are on that persons line of travel.

4) My shop steward already says she can’t help me unless i’m filing a grievance or being disciplined because i’m not part of the union.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. Last thing i want is to get totally boned right as the holidays are approaching.
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
I’m a two month new rural regular.
Today my postmaster walks into my case and informs me that the brand new apartment complex (with 150+ apartments) that is opening up across the street was added to my route. I asked, isn’t this something that has to be agreed upon, she said “no you are the smallest route in the office so it’s going on yours”.

Can management just do that? All the other rural carriers in my office seem to believe that it’s something that should be negotiated on between myself and the PM. And that my contract was to do my route as it was when i bid and won it. How can management just alter my route?
For context, I am a 43J with 500 stops. So my route is not actually that small.
Mgmt can add to routes as needed as long as the territory doesn’t place that in overburdened status. Even route cuts can be done as needed with Carrier input that isn’t required to be followed.

Second, when I asked how I would get paid, the PM says she doesn’t know yet. But that she would update my route in the system every pay period when new people move into each apartment. This seems insane to me! Shes basically telling me to do work first and hope to get paid down the line.
mileage & dismount distance is added to the Mailboxes and to any other documented dismounted listed on your 4003. Mgmt uses your EXISTING volume # to calculate the time added to your evaluation when boxes are “opened“ in your Edit Book. Once you have 60 minutes or more of openings, mgmt submits your Edit Book & 4003 for Evaluation adjustment.

Shouldnt the apartments be evaluated first? How do they know how much to pay me? How many steps to each box? What if i have parcels to deliver to a third floor? And how can they pay me per tenant? Shouldnt they just pay me for each unit regardless of occupancy?
answered above.
What should i do? When i start getting mail and parcels, just refuse to do it? The whole thing seems crazy to me, and as a new inexperienced regular I don’t even know where to start to fight this or argue without getting in trouble.
You have no recourse & cannot refuse to deliver your route. Place “VACANT“ cards in each mailbox & when the tenant fills it out, start delivery & “open” it in your Edit Book. Ask mgmt as To whether office will accept parcels too large for lockers or if you take them to the door. There’s NO extra pay for door-delivery just like it is for curbside & neighborhood deliveries. RRECS implementation should correct this eventually.

Side notes:
1) If i am forced to accept this, should i record my hours? When i became regular they offered me hourly or evaluation for the first few pay periods, to learn the route. I don’t see how this is different. Especially if it hasnt actually been evaluated. I have to go spend the busy season trying to learn an entire new complex while working in the dark because of daylight savings.
Nothing changes in for working. You were allowed hourly (guessing) due to going Regular prior to the End of the last Guarantee Period. When the New Guarantee Period started, your route was forced to evaluation pay. When you change to a K-route, you’ll get a day off weekly instead of biweekly.
2) A veteran co-worker has said that the past PM put the last new apartments onto an aux route. Having an RCA do it hourly, until it got settled in, full, and evaluated to be put onto a regular route. That seems like the actual proper way to do it.
Sorry but the RCA serving an Aux route would still be paid evaluation unless they work over 40 hours, then they are hourly. Making an Auxiliary is at mgmt’s discretion & if there is a H or J route, that‘s usually where new territory should go. Also with the shortages of RCAs, creating an Auxiliary removes another RCA from covering Relief Days.
3) I don’t think technically these apartments are on my line of travel. They are across the street from the PO on the other side of a highway. My first and last stops are about 2 miles away. In fact the street addresses before and after the apartment, are delivered by a different route and are on that persons line of travel.
Again, mgmt can add territory where needed. The added mileage will be added to your evaluation immediately.

4) My shop steward already says she can’t help me unless i’m filing a grievance or being disciplined because i’m not part of the union.
The Steward cannot refuse to represent anyone regardless of Union member status. They cannot even ask if you are a member. You can file a grievance on anything but will likely lose on this one.
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. Last thing i want is to get totally boned right as the holidays are approaching.
It is what it is but at least the first 3 weeks IN DECEMBER are paid overtime if you work over your evaluation. Mgmt CAN send you home to save the overtime if they choose.
 
Last edited:

Flimflammed(Quasar)

Active member
Too much for me to tackle here on my phone. Why not just file a grievance then your shop steward will help. Your grievance could be why is this being added to my route

They probably can add it, but it might not be too bad. Cbu's worth 1min., find your volume factor, then figure how many boxes to go up an hour, say 20, then every time you get 20 turn in your edit ask for increase(denote on your trip report).
You could go up 5 or 7 hours of pay when it fills up.
You get 2 min. for each parcel locker 1 min for each collection box, dismount to cbu and footage, mileage also.
Use knowledge base on here, lot of research to do.
Tell them if they do a good job, maybe you'll join, not sure I'd recommend joining at this point, but I'm still in.
Maybe they can find somebody else that wants it.
At least it will be new and you'll know everybody that moves in.
Good luck
 

CRG6

Member
answered above.

Nothing changes in for working. You were allowed hourly (guessing) due to going Regular prior to the End of the last Guarantee Period. When the New Guarantee Period started, your route was forced to evaluation pay. When you change to a K-route, you’ll get a day off weekly instead of biweekly.

Sorry but the RCA serving an Aux route would still be paid evaluation unless they work over 40 hours, then they are hourly. Making an Auxiliary is at mgmt’s discretion & if there is a H or J route, that‘s usually where new territory should go. Also with the shortages of RCAs, creating an Auxiliary removes another RCA from covering Relief Days.

The Steward cannot refuse to represent anyone regardless of Union member status. They cannot even ask if you are a member. You can file a grievance on anything but will likely lose on this one.

It is what it is but at least the first 3 weeks IN DECEMBER are paid overtime if you work over your evaluation. Mgmt CAN send you home to save the overtime if they choose.
Wow thanks so much for the thorough responses! So basically... the answer to all of my questions comes down to: management can do whatever they want to my route and I have no recourse to fight it.

Which really sucks. But okay, assuming I have to do this added work. What can I do to make sure I dont screwed over monetarily? Because right now the story is pretty much that she is telling me to just do the mail as its coming in and theyll figure it out later. Do THEY not have to be the ones to count out the mileage, and walking distance, etc?

What is RRECS implementation?
What is a 4003?
So if I dont reach 60 minutes or more of openings I might just be doing work for free until I do?

Most importantly:
How can I myself calculate the value of this addition. Because management hates me, and they WILL attempt to screw me out of pay and undervalue it. Ive seen them do it before when they added new housing developments to another route, and he had to grieve it for months before he got thousands in back pay. I just want to be on top of this situation before I get screwed.
 

CRG6

Member
Too much for me to tackle here on my phone. Why not just file a grievance then your shop steward will help. Your grievance could be why is this being added to my route

They probably can add it, but it might not be too bad. Cbu's worth 1min., find your volume factor, then figure how many boxes to go up an hour, say 20, then every time you get 20 turn in your edit ask for increase(denote on your trip report).
You could go up 5 or 7 hours of pay when it fills up.
You get 2 min. for each parcel locker 1 min for each collection box, dismount to cbu and footage, mileage also.
Use knowledge base on here, lot of research to do.
Tell them if they do a good job, maybe you'll join, not sure I'd recommend joining at this point, but I'm still in.
Maybe they can find somebody else that wants it.
At least it will be new and you'll know everybody that moves in.
Good luck
Where do I find my volume factor? And is there a specific calculation I can do to figure out how much I should be getting paid per apartment occupancy?

What does that mean to get auxiliary assistance while doing new labels? Like, someone has to help me on my route while im doing it?
 

Flimflammed(Quasar)

Active member
Where do I find my volume factor? And is there a specific calculation I can do to figure out how much I should be getting paid per apartment occupancy?

What does that mean to get auxiliary assistance while doing new labels? Like, someone has to help me on my route while im doing it?
Yes to the last one, I believe volume factor, should be at your case 4240 or trip report, not sure.
Knowledge base on here top of page. Click boxes needed for 1 hour change, and table of evaluated hours.
You will add mileage and dismount footage and parcel lockers and collection boxes, initially, so you won't need 60minutes worth of cbu's, 1st increase.
I would recommend neatly denoting new boxes in margin box of trip report and personal calendar for backpay purposes.
Lot of research to do.
I still had to file grievance, didn't get all back pay but sped process up a little.
 

btdtret

Well-known member
CRG6 -- "Where do I find my volume factor?"

-- The Volume Factor is listed on Form 4241-A which should be in the Route Book at your case.

-- The 4241-A is generated after a mail count. If you were not the regular during the mailcount and the form is not in the Route Book, request a copy form manglement. If manglement does have or can't find the most recent 4241-A, call your Assistant District Representative. The ADR should be able to help manglement find the needed 4241-A, since it is an official document!

"And is there a specific calculation I can do to figure out how much I should be getting paid per apartment occupancy?"

-- Search for "boxes needed" ( under "general ) in RI's KNOWLEDGEBASE Section at the top left of the page.

"What does that mean to get auxiliary assistance while doing new labels? Like, someone has to help me on my route while I'm doing it?"

-- The upkeep of labels is part of the job. However, if there is a major change in the case labels, auxiliary assistance may be required such as you casing the route and an RCA delivers the route while you redo the case labels.

"What is a 4003?"

-- A VERY important document that should be in your Route Book. It lists your line of travel, street by street and turn by turn. Your pay is directly tied to the 4003 ( official rural route description ). If not in your Route Book, ask manglement for a copy. The Edit Book ( Red Book ) should be at the case. It also needs to be updated when new mail boxes / cluster boxes become active or become inactive after 90 days.

-- BTW, Section 232 of the PO-603 ( which also should be at the case ) lists ALL the contents that should be in your Route Book. Again ask manglement for a copy if there isn't one at your case.
 

Twingrlie

Well-known member
Wow thanks so much for the thorough responses! So basically... the answer to all of my questions comes down to: management can do whatever they want to my route and I have no recourse to fight it.

Which really sucks. But okay, assuming I have to do this added work. What can I do to make sure I dont screwed over monetarily? Because right now the story is pretty much that she is telling me to just do the mail as its coming in and theyll figure it out later. Do THEY not have to be the ones to count out the mileage, and walking distance, etc?

What is RRECS implementation?
What is a 4003?
So if I dont reach 60 minutes or more of openings I might just be doing work for free until I do?

Most importantly:
How can I myself calculate the value of this addition. Because management hates me, and they WILL attempt to screw me out of pay and undervalue it. Ive seen them do it before when they added new housing developments to another route, and he had to grieve it for months before he got thousands in back pay. I just want to be on top of this situation before I get screwed.
You would get a pay raise. I hope you realize that. If you carry a 46K for three consecutive years, that’s your high three for retirement purposes. The amount added gets calculated automatically once the route adjustments have gone through. After all is said and done, ask for an official route remeasurement. They will drive the route with you and remeasure everything. Ask for your dismount sheet and make sure all your collection boxes, dismount distance, and parcel lockers are accounted for.
 

Flimflammed(Quasar)

Active member
CRG6 -- "Where do I find my volume factor?"

-- The Volume Factor is listed on Form 4241-A which should be in the Route Book at your case.

-- The 4241-A is generated after a mail count. If you were not the regular during the mailcount and the form is not in the Route Book, request a copy form manglement. If manglement does have or can't find the most recent 4241-A, call your Assistant District Representative. The ADR should be able to help manglement find the needed 4241-A, since it is an official document!

"And is there a specific calculation I can do to figure out how much I should be getting paid per apartment occupancy?"

-- Search for "boxes needed" ( under "general ) in RI's KNOWLEDGEBASE Section at the top left of the page.

"What does that mean to get auxiliary assistance while doing new labels? Like, someone has to help me on my route while I'm doing it?"

-- The upkeep of labels is part of the job. However, if there is a major change in the case labels, auxiliary assistance may be required such as you casing the route and an RCA delivers the route while you redo the case labels.

"What is a 4003?"

-- A VERY important document that should be in your Route Book. It lists your line of travel, street by street and turn by turn. Your pay is directly tied to the 4003 ( official rural route description ). If not in your Route Book, ask manglement for a copy. The Edit Book ( Red Book ) should be at the case. It also needs to be updated when new mail boxes / cluster boxes become active or become inactive after 90 days.

-- BTW, Section 232 of the PO-603 ( which also should be at the case ) lists ALL the contents that should be in your Route Book. Again ask manglement for a copy if there isn't one at your case.
Thank you
 

neciat

Well-known member
If you really do not want the territory, you can request a DPS QUANTITY REVIEW. You are currently a 43J which puts you at 46:22 at the lowest to 47:27 at the highest with respect to standard hours. Depending upon how much DPS your route received at its' most recent count, prevailing in the review could "add" substantial time to your standard hours and enough so to where they could not adjust you / add to you to put you into an overburdened status. Something to think about.........................
 

CRG6

Member
CRG6 -- "Where do I find my volume factor?"

-- The Volume Factor is listed on Form 4241-A which should be in the Route Book at your case.

-- The 4241-A is generated after a mail count. If you were not the regular during the mailcount and the form is not in the Route Book, request a copy form manglement. If manglement does have or can't find the most recent 4241-A, call your Assistant District Representative. The ADR should be able to help manglement find the needed 4241-A, since it is an official document!

"And is there a specific calculation I can do to figure out how much I should be getting paid per apartment occupancy?"

-- Search for "boxes needed" ( under "general ) in RI's KNOWLEDGEBASE Section at the top left of the page.

"What does that mean to get auxiliary assistance while doing new labels? Like, someone has to help me on my route while I'm doing it?"

-- The upkeep of labels is part of the job. However, if there is a major change in the case labels, auxiliary assistance may be required such as you casing the route and an RCA delivers the route while you redo the case labels.

"What is a 4003?"

-- A VERY important document that should be in your Route Book. It lists your line of travel, street by street and turn by turn. Your pay is directly tied to the 4003 ( official rural route description ). If not in your Route Book, ask manglement for a copy. The Edit Book ( Red Book ) should be at the case. It also needs to be updated when new mail boxes / cluster boxes become active or become inactive after 90 days.

-- BTW, Section 232 of the PO-603 ( which also should be at the case ) lists ALL the contents that should be in your Route Book. Again ask manglement for a copy if there isn't one at your case.
First of all thank you and everyone else this has been a huge help.

- Where can i find the rule or article that states a major change in the case labels would get me auxiliary assistance? Because when i first got the route and re-did the labels it took me many hours of my personal time, at home and in the office. I know it will take me just as long this time because I have to re-arrange my entire case for this addition.



- So i've done the calculation, and would appreciate if you could take a look at my "math" and tell me if I have the right general idea or if im way off:

My volume factor is 2.74. The boxes document says to round up to 2.8, which makes me earn 60 minutes per every 15.79 CBUs.

I will have 191 units at full occupancy by January.
So 191/15.79 = 12.09hrs per week
Im a 43J, so 43 + 12.09 = 55.09J
A rough subtraction of 9.2hrs would make this a 45.89k (46k).

So at full capacity, 191 units should bump me from a 43J to a 46K, just off the units alone.
This is before adding the mileage, dismount footage, pay per parcel locker, pay per outgoing slot, etc.
Does this seem more or less accurate? Or am I totally miscalculating?
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
First of all thank you and everyone else this has been a huge help.

- Where can i find the rule or article that states a major change in the case labels would get me auxiliary assistance? Because when i first got the route and re-did the labels it took me many hours of my personal time, at home and in the office. I know it will take me just as long this time because I have to re-arrange my entire case for this addition.



- So i've done the calculation, and would appreciate if you could take a look at my "math" and tell me if I have the right general idea or if im way off:

My volume factor is 2.74. The boxes document says to round up to 2.8, which makes me earn 60 minutes per every 15.79 CBUs.

I will have 191 units at full occupancy by January.
So 191/15.79 = 12.09hrs per week
Im a 43J, so 43 + 12.09 = 55.09J
A rough subtraction of 9.2hrs would make this a 45.89k (46k).

So at full capacity, 191 units should bump me from a 43J to a 46K, just off the units alone.
This is before adding the mileage, dismount footage, pay per parcel locker, pay per outgoing slot, etc.
Does this seem more or less accurate? Or am I totally miscalculating?
Sorry but your math is off.
The hours at “full capacity” would be added to the 6-day total week hours which is between 46:22 & 47:27. That 12 hours added to that number puts you at “Overburdened”. Thing is is that you cannot add all of those boxes at once but they are to be added as the tenants establish mail delivery.
Immediately added is mileage & dismount distance to mailboxes & to the office if required. Parcel Lockers in CBUs & outmail slots will also be added. If there are Electronic Parcel Lockers, then that is a timed event to be added when you start using them.
Just remember that an hour change is more than 60 minutes if your route falls at the bottom of the evaluation timeframe.
 

psd181

Well-known member
Parcel lockers should be added to your "base hours" when they are added.

Welcome to the club of doing stuff for FREE!!! You get to carry the new deliveries until you have 60 minutes worth of work. Make sure of where you are on the table of evaluated hours because there is some spots where if you get 60 minutes and the adjustment, your evaluation doesn't change and so you have to get another 60 minutes added before you get paid for the1st 60 minute change. in other words, make sure of where you are on the table of evaluated hours and wait until you have the proper amount (sometimes 67 minutes) to move the route to the next pay level.
 
Top