formula office question

David086

New member
I work in an office with 6 routes, 5 k routes 1 J route. We are down to one RCA and they are supposedly “trying” to hire more, it’s been 2 months and nothing as of yet!? Everyone is sick of working their days off, but we have been. Some people are starting to complain and now the post master is threatening to switch us to a formula office. I don’t know much about that and had a couple questions.

1. Do you pick your day off by Seniority? If so I’m currently Monday’s off and 2nd in Seniority. Number one wants to stay Saturday’s off so my day off should continue to be Monday?

2. Once more subs are hired can the office be switched back to a non formula office?

thanks
 

Postal-xam@58

Well-known member
In our office our postmaster let us pick by seniority, after he figured out formula. He can decide if he doesn’t want to use certain days. Our postmaster decided not to let us pick Friday or Friday-Saturday trade off. Most senior carriers got their pick.

As far as going back we were told it very seldom happens. It is a good thing for RCAs, they can go career quicker.
 

Twingrlie

Active member
If you’re a formula office management types in the number of K routes, J routes and Aux routes and then it asks for the number of leave replacements.
It will then tell you how many routes need a non Saturday relief day. So let’s say that number is five. Management will then make sure all the non Saturday days are split evenly. This will be based on seniority when they ask what relief day you want off. Obviously most want Monday or Saturday which is why there are benefits to picking days that aren’t Mon or Sat. If you get offered Tues-Thurs, they can’t cut your route below a certain amount. If you want Friday you can chose to have a Fri/Sat rotating day off. So every other week you get a three day weekend.
 

Twingrlie

Active member
In our office our postmaster let us pick by seniority, after he figured out formula. He can decide if he doesn’t want to use certain days. Our postmaster decided not to let us pick Friday or Friday-Saturday trade off. Most senior carriers got their pick.

As far as going back we were told it very seldom happens. It is a good thing for RCAs, they can go career quicker.
As long as the non Saturday days are split evenly, he can’t just not let you pick a day. There can’t be like 10 Wednesday K days and 7 Tuesdays. The only time you wouldn’t be able to chose is if there’s nothing left because you’re the least senior person.
 

MiddleOfNowhere

Well-known member
this situation is tough, because the j route gets the first saturday. if the most senior regular, is not the j route, the best scenario, would be for the senior reg. to take alternating fri/saturday relief, opposite the j route. that would leave monday - thursday, for the four remaining routes, determined by seniority. the number one, gets the first choice, after the j route. makes it really hard for scheduling vacation.
 

Postal-xam@58

Well-known member
As long as the non Saturday days are split evenly, he can’t just not let you pick a day. There can’t be like 10 Wednesday K days and 7 Tuesdays. The only time you wouldn’t be able to chose is if there’s nothing left because you’re the least senior person.
I was trying to answer Dave’s questions, without getting to much in the weeds. Our postmaster figured the formula for our office. It is not the same as his. But,Yes we all got to pick, he figured in the J routes too. By the time it got to me all that was left was Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. Which was okay with me because, I stayed with Wednesday (GARBAGE DAY). Others picked Tuesday (RED PLUM). Then the first time we had a chance to change after a route went up for bid or a change in PTFs, he allowed us to pick a different day, by seniority. I stayed where I was. I like being off on garbage day. Some with less seniority moved to Tuesday to avoid the red plums.
 

Ventersl

New member
Our office is a formula office. We had 11 subs 2 went regular. we also have 2 aux that has to be covered. the formula was recalculated and 4 regulars lost their Saturdays. The regulars was given a day off by the Postmaster and Union rep. Wed & Thur. was given because they said they was not going to disrupt everyone else days. Is this correct. I was sure they was supposed to recalculate the formula and assign days by seniority..
 

Postal-xam@58

Well-known member
QUOTE="Ventersl, post: 90304, member: 6112"]
Our office is a formula office. We had 11 subs 2 went regular. we also have 2 aux that has to be covered. the formula was recalculated and 4 regulars lost their Saturdays. The regulars was given a day off by the Postmaster and Union rep. Wed & Thur. was given because they said they was not going to disrupt everyone else days. Is this correct. I was sure they was supposed to recalculate the formula and assign days by seniority..
[/QUOTE]

I tried to find you something in writing, but I can only tell you how my postmaster did. Two different times when he recalculated, he started with the senior regular and asked if they wanted to change days. Our senior carriers were happy where they were. That’s how it got down to me.

Maybe someone else can give you something more concrete.

People?
 

Twingrlie

Active member
I was trying to answer Dave’s questions, without getting to much in the weeds. Our postmaster figured the formula for our office. It is not the same as his. But,Yes we all got to pick, he figured in the J routes too. By the time it got to me all that was left was Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. Which was okay with me because, I stayed with Wednesday (GARBAGE DAY). Others picked Tuesday (RED PLUM). Then the first time we had a chance to change after a route went up for bid or a change in PTFs, he allowed us to pick a different day, by seniority. I stayed where I was. I like being off on garbage day. Some with less seniority moved to Tuesday to avoid the red plums.
See a routes K day should never ever change unless they are adding Saturdays or taking them away. That’s the only time. If he let you change after a route went up, then you guys got lucky.
 

Twingrlie

Active member
Our office is a formula office. We had 11 subs 2 went regular. we also have 2 aux that has to be covered. the formula was recalculated and 4 regulars lost their Saturdays. The regulars was given a day off by the Postmaster and Union rep. Wed & Thur. was given because they said they was not going to disrupt everyone else days. Is this correct. I was sure they was supposed to recalculate the formula and assign days by seniority..
They only go to the people losing their Saturday. They do not go to people who already have established days. If two people lost Saturday, they go to the most junior first and let them know what’s available and then go on down the list.
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
They only go to the people losing their Saturday. They do not go to people who already have established days. If two people lost Saturday, they go to the most junior first and let them know what’s available and then go on down the list.
Not true. Mgmt should check with Saturday Carriers by Seniority & allow them the chance to change to a Non-Saturday if they want. If no “takers” then mgmt must force by Junior. Mgmt does not have to give a selection of days to choose from but most will if possible.
 

Twingrlie

Active member
Not true. Mgmt should check with Saturday Carriers by Seniority & allow them the chance to change to a Non-Saturday if they want. If no “takers” then mgmt must force by Junior. Mgmt does not have to give a selection of days to choose from but most will if possible.
No that’s incorrect. I just went through this at my station. The K day never changes on the route unless Saturdays are being added or taken away. That’s clearly stated. Carriers that have a Saturday can offer to give it up but management only needs to ask people that don’t have a Saturday if they want to change to Saturday or take away a Saturday from those affected. It’s a common misconception that carriers think the K day goes with the carrier when they switch routes or that when redoing the matrix, everyone has to be asked if they want to switch.
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
No that’s incorrect. I just went through this at my station. The K day never changes on the route unless Saturdays are being added or taken away. That’s clearly stated. Carriers that have a Saturday can offer to give it up but management only needs to ask people that don’t have a Saturday if they want to change to Saturday or take away a Saturday from those affected. It’s a common misconception that carriers think the K day goes with the carrier when they switch routes or that when redoing the matrix, everyone has to be asked if they want to switch.
I am well versed on Formula & the Matrix. I didn’t say anything about the Relief Day changing on a route without a recalculation of the Formula. Nobody said anything about the Relief Day moving when a Carrier changes routes, either.
The Formula has nothing to do with the Matrix since that is for the subs, not the Regulars. The only thing the Formula can do is trigger a change of the Primary sub on the routes involved. There is also no “redoing” of the Matrix, but that is for another thread.

Again, If mgmt is recalculating the formula & Saturdays need to be removed, mgmt should ask by Seniority. The Carriers can’t volunteer to change from a Saturday if they don’t know that mgmt is pulling Saturday Relief Days.
 

Twingrlie

Active member
I am well versed on Formula & the Matrix. I didn’t say anything about the Relief Day changing on a route without a recalculation of the Formula. Nobody said anything about the Relief Day moving when a Carrier changes routes, either.
The Formula has nothing to do with the Matrix since that is for the subs, not the Regulars. The only thing the Formula can do is trigger a change of the Primary sub on the routes involved. There is also no “redoing” of the Matrix, but that is for another thread.

Again, If mgmt is recalculating the formula & Saturdays need to be removed, mgmt should ask by Seniority. The Carriers can’t volunteer to change from a Saturday if they don’t know that mgmt is pulling Saturday Relief Days.
You said management should check with carriers that have Saturday already and allow them to change to a non Saturday in post 12. If they take away Saturdays, that’s the only time they would check with that carrier if they’re affected. If they’re adding Saturdays, they do not go to the carriers that already have Saturday and ask them to switch. Did I misunderstand you?
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
You said management should check with carriers that have Saturday already and allow them to change to a non Saturday in post 12. If they take away Saturdays, that’s the only time they would check with that carrier if they’re affected. If they’re adding Saturdays, they do not go to the carriers that already have Saturday and ask them to switch. Did I misunderstand you?
Yes since I was correcting your post that mgmt didn’t need to go to those that already have a Saturday K upon Removing Saturdays due to a Recalculation. Mgmt should not “automatically“ remove Sats by Junior without checking if a Senior might prefer to change first.
A few years ago, I changed from a Saturday to a Monday due to my late Spouses medical issues when a Change of Saturdays was needed. It allowed me to save on AL/SL days & allowed a Junior to keep their weekends with the Family. After my spouse passed away, my route went down & I opted to a J & got my Saturday back. Once my route grew out of J to a K, I kept my Saturday.
 

Twingrlie

Active member
Yes since I was correcting your post that mgmt didn’t need to go to those that already have a Saturday K upon Removing Saturdays due to a Recalculation. Mgmt should not “automatically“ remove Sats by Junior without checking if a Senior might prefer to change first.
A few years ago, I changed from a Saturday to a Monday due to my late Spouses medical issues when a Change of Saturdays was needed. It allowed me to save on AL/SL days & allowed a Junior to keep their weekends with the Family. After my spouse passed away, my route went down & I opted to a J & got my Saturday back. Once my route grew out of J to a K, I kept my Saturday.
Yeah see I just went through this at my office. Our DR said management is not supposed to go to carriers that already have Saturday as their day. I thought they should but it turns out they aren’t supposed to. If management did it wasn’t anything that was in the contract.
 

gotstamps

Well-known member
Yeah see I just went through this at my office. Our DR said management is not supposed to go to carriers that already have Saturday as their day. I thought they should but it turns out they aren’t supposed to. If management did it wasn’t anything that was in the contract.
Gee... is this the same DR that allowed you to use a City Contract Article?
In the implementation of the Formula to an office, mgmt is to allow volunteers to change their Relief Day to a non-Saturday. Although it does not state “by Seniority“, Senior would trump a Junior if that Senior wanted that non-Saturday that is being offered. If not enough Carriers choose to change from a Saturday, the most Junior Carrier is then forced to change. It can be argued that the same principle should be used upon recalculation to remove Saturdays.
 
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