Grievance Appeal Process

[Goggles Pizano]

Can anyone advise me on what the process is for a proper grievance appeal?

Here is my scenario:

• Got awarded a route right at the time RRECS was implemented, old evaluation 43k, 1st RRECS evaluation 40H
• Ran the route daily, no LOA, injury etc.
• After 1 year of doing RRECS scans I was removed from the route in the RRECS system. No form 50 was issued.
• 3 evaluations with the 4241a listed as vacant
• PM had to manually add me into payroll during this time so that i would be paid
• After this most recent eval i was quietly added back to the route. No form 50 was issued.

I grieved that altering my route assignment and personnel record was a violation of federal law, ELM, and national contract.

Asked for a review of RRECS data, to me this is tainted data. ADR did not look into anything other than Form 50s and completely ignored the vacancy listed on the 4241A. ADR settled this at step 1 with no valid explanation at all, basically just reviewed form 50s. So I'm to believe this is just a 'clerical error' on my 4241A?

 

[EthelAnne]

I'm going to say yes, this is most likely clerical/administrative error, and someone f'd up by leaving your name off the MMS info, so it didn't show up on the 4241-A. What's does the grievance settlement say?

RRECS data is collected for the route, not the carrier. It doesn't matter who is entering it (the regular, a PTF, a RCA or a designation 74 RCA). It all accumulates to determine the route evaluation. RRECS info is not in anyway linked to EIN or Social Security # or anything like that.

So there were three Mini mail surveys that came back with the route as vacant and your PM entered your info manually each pay period for a year and a half? I'd like to say I'm surprised a PM would continue to perform this work rather than reach out to have it corrected, but I am not surprised, because 99% of them are complete morons.

But this is curious. I don't know of a way to enter a regular carrier into payroll working a route they are not assigned to (other than the provision that allows a regular carrier to work another route for OT). The names of the regular rural carriers in an office are in TACS (the payroll system) with our route assignments attached to them. A regular rural carrier without a route assignment cannot exist, AFAIK, and I think I'm right about that because I can only imagine the cluster#@*! that would happen if management had the ability to enter route assignments.

Going back to the moron thing, are you certain the PM entered your hours manually? If it's even possible, that seems like it would raise lots of red flags at Eagen (the USPS department that handles payroll) well before 18 months had passed.

What other evidence besides the 4241-A did you have that you were not assigned to the route? The Form 50 would be definitive proof, as it lists route assignment, salary/step, etc., and the information recorded there is what is in the system on how we are paid. It sounds like the ADR confirmed that the Form 50 was correct.

Here's a public service announcement that may be helpful for the future: Management will lie rather than admit a mistake or that they don't know how to do something.

ETA: Regarding your question about your ability to appeal this grievance decision, the only option would be to file a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

I'm going to say yes, this is most likely clerical/administrative error, and someone f'd up by leaving your name off the MMS info, so it didn't show up on the 4241-A. What's does the grievance settlement say?

RRECS data is collected for the route, not the carrier. It doesn't matter who is entering it (the regular, a PTF, a RCA or a designation 74 RCA). It all accumulates to determine the route evaluation. RRECS info is not in anyway linked to EIN or Social Security # or anything like that.

So there were three Mini mail surveys that came back with the route as vacant and your PM entered your info manually each pay period for a year and a half? I'd like to say I'm surprised a PM would continue to perform this work rather than reach out to have it corrected, but I am not surprised, because 99% of them are complete morons.

But this is curious. I don't know of a way to enter a regular carrier into payroll working a route they are not assigned to (other than the provision that allows a regular carrier to work another route for OT). The names of the regular rural carriers in an office are in TACS (the payroll system) with our route assignments attached to them. A regular rural carrier without a route assignment cannot exist, AFAIK, and I think I'm right about that because I can only imagine the cluster#@*! that would happen if management had the ability to enter route assignments.

Going back to the moron thing, are you certain the PM entered your hours manually? If it's even possible, that seems like it would raise lots of red flags at Eagen (the USPS department that handles payroll) well before 18 months had passed.

What other evidence besides the 4241-A did you have that you were not assigned to the route? The Form 50 would be definitive proof, as it lists route assignment, salary/step, etc., and the information recorded there is what is in the system on how we are paid. It sounds like the ADR confirmed that the Form 50 was correct.

Here's a public service announcement that may be helpful for the future: Management will lie rather than admit a mistake or that they don't know how to do something.

ETA: Regarding your question about your ability to appeal this grievance decision, the only option would be to file a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board.

no other evidence than 4241As, I believe PM attempted to resolve and it died on the vine. This goes above my local office management. I don't believe PM's can alter 4241A assignments. I'm fairly certain PM was adding me every two weeks, this came out of the step 1. I requested my union rep to look into the RRECS DATA and they completely ignored my request.

This is not a clerical error imo, a deliberate attempt to suppress the evaluation. IF this is true it violates FLSA, ELM, and the contract. Potentially falsifying.

To me the RRECS data is tainted, seems like my eval was being adjusted based on hours worked rather than rrecs data.

If I were unassigned, what the heck was my status? an unassigned regular?

 

[Goggles Pizano]

grievance settlement states they reviewed form 50s.

 

[EthelAnne]

no other evidence than 4241As, I believe PM attempted to resolve and it died on the vine. This goes above my local office management. I don't believe PM's can alter 4241A assignments. I'm fairly certain PM was adding me every two weeks, this came out of the step 1. I requested my union rep to look into the RRECS DATA and they completely ignored my request.

This is not a clerical error imo, a deliberate attempt to suppress the evaluation. IF this is true it violates FLSA, ELM, and the contract. Potentially falsifying.

To me the RRECS data is tainted, seems like my eval was being adjusted based on hours worked rather than rrecs data.

If I were unassigned, what the heck was my status? an unassigned regular?

There is no such thing as an unassigned rural regular. Unassigned regular is a role in the city craft.

Your Form 50 shows your step/salary. A local manager/PM would not have access to your Form 50 so they could not “manually” enter your hours/pay each week. In addition to the other reasons I posted above, they would not know your deductions or contributions, either.

You can believe what you want about what your PM has told you (or perhaps you misunderstood. Actual rural hours are typed into the payroll system for everyone by local management each day, so that is what they may have meant) and disbelieve the ADR, who confirmed your salary and status on your Form 50.

ETA (one more time because I think I’m understanding OP’s questions better as I think about it): it’s easy to assume we get paid by RRECS because we CLOCKIN/CLOCKOUT under the RRECS menu on the scanners like you would on a time clock, but those hours are not communicated to the system. We get paid from the entries in the TACS system, which the supervisor types in based upon what we’ve written in the 4240. If entries aren’t made into TACS, you will not be paid (even though you’ve been hitting CLOCKIN/CLOCKOUT in RRECS every day).

 

[Goggles Pizano]

There is no such thing as an unassigned rural regular. That is a role in the city craft.

Your Form 50 shows your route number, step/salary. That is not information a local manager/PM would have access to so they could not “manually” enter your hours/pay each week. They would not know your deductions, or contributions, either.

You can believe what you want about what your PM has told you and disbelieve the ADR, who confirmed your salary and status on your Form 50. believe PM or union, I want an explanation of what if any impact to my evaluation this caused. simple as that.

i will attempt the national labor board if no other option exists

 

[neciat]

Who's name and EIN appears / appeared on the top of the 4240 of the route upon which you serve ?

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Who's name and EIN appears / appeared on the top of the 4240 of the route upon which you serve ?

it is my name, just the 4241a shows as vacant, just the rrecs stuff. I think the 4240s were produced after my pm would add me back into payroll.

 

[gotstamps]

The only thing that matters is if your Form 50s are correct in Salary & Step. The assigned name on the 4241A doesn’t matter. As long as the Evaluation for the route is correct and you are being paid that Evaluation Salary, there’s nothing more to do.

If you disagree with the route’s evaluation, that is done through the Dispute Process after the MMS documents are received. You would need to find what is incorrect with your evaluation and gather the documentation for your Dispute Resolution Team to review. There is way too much Data utilized for RRECS to expect anyone to ask for & review a year of Data & find a mistake in a route that they do not serve. That responsibility is on us Carriers to find & document then report.

If you think your Union Rep did you wrong, then follow the chain of command with your complaint.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

The only thing that matters is if your Form 50s are correct in Salary & Step. The assigned name on the 4241A doesn’t matter. As long as the Evaluation for the route is correct and you are being paid that Evaluation Salary, there’s nothing more to do.

If you disagree with the route’s evaluation, that is done through the Dispute Process after the MMS documents are received. You would need to find what is incorrect with your evaluation and gather the documentation for your Dispute Resolution Team to review. There is way too much Data utilized for RRECS to expect anyone to ask for & review a year of Data & find a mistake in a route that they do not serve. That responsibility is on us Carriers to find & document then report.

If you think your Union Rep did you wrong, then follow the chain of command with your

The 4241a is a legal document that determines my compensation. I was illegally removed from these documents. I have absolutely no way to prove anything with radar reports etc. This issue seems to fall under FLSA laws and requires a full RRECS data audit to determine what if anything was done to suppress the route. It is a data integrity issue. This simply can not be completed at stage 1.

Too much data to review a potential violation of law is a cop out.

 

[Haygrrl]

I'm going to say yes, this is most likely clerical/administrative error, and someone f'd up by leaving your name off the MMS info, so it didn't show up on the 4241-A. What's does the grievance settlement say?

RRECS data is collected for the route, not the carrier. It doesn't matter who is entering it (the regular, a PTF, a RCA or a designation 74 RCA). It all accumulates to determine the route evaluation. RRECS info is not in anyway linked to EIN or Social Security # or anything like that.

So there were three Mini mail surveys that came back with the route as vacant and your PM entered your info manually each pay period for a year and a half? I'd like to say I'm surprised a PM would continue to perform this work rather than reach out to have it corrected, but I am not surprised, because 99% of them are complete morons.

But this is curious. I don't know of a way to enter a regular carrier into payroll working a route they are not assigned to (other than the provision that allows a regular carrier to work another route for OT). The names of the regular rural carriers in an office are in TACS (the payroll system) with our route assignments attached to them. A regular rural carrier without a route assignment cannot exist, AFAIK, and I think I'm right about that because I can only imagine the cluster#@*! that would happen if management had the ability to enter route assignments.

Going back to the moron thing, are you certain the PM entered your hours manually? If it's even possible, that seems like it would raise lots of red flags at Eagen (the USPS department that handles payroll) well before 18 months had passed.

What other evidence besides the 4241-A did you have that you were not assigned to the route? The Form 50 would be definitive proof, as it lists route assignment, salary/step, etc., and the information recorded there is what is in the system on how we are paid. It sounds like the ADR confirmed that the Form 50 was correct.

Here's a public service announcement that may be helpful for the future: Management will lie rather than admit a mistake or that they don't know how to do something.

ETA: Regarding your question about your ability to appeal this grievance decision, the only option would be to file a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board.

You are my hero
That was.a fantastic response..so unfortunate that this is even an issue

 

[justacarrier]

gotstamps gave you the 100% complete and accurate answers. All this about the 4241a and FLSA will lead to nothing with the DOL or anyone else. If the 50's are correct and you were paid correctly then there is no harm and therefore no remedy to look for. As gotstamps said, the dispute process is the avenue to resolve the RRECS problems and if you've been through 3 MMS's and not disputed the discrepancies then you are not even timely with any of this.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

l

gotstamps gave you the 100% complete and accurate answers. All this about the 4241a and FLSA will lead to nothing with the DOL or anyone else. If the 50's are correct and you were paid correctly then there is no harm and therefore no remedy to look for. As gotstamps said, the dispute process is the avenue to resolve the RRECS problems and if you've been through 3 MMS's and not disputed the discrepancies then you are not even timeldo you

The RRECS Interim Adjustment Flaw​

When a route is vacant, consolidated, or undergoes a major territorial change, the USPS cannot wait a full year for the RRECS system to gather 52 weeks of complete data (Mini Mail Surveys, or MMS). The contract allows for a temporary adjustment.

​

 

[justacarrier]

l

The RRECS Interim Adjustment Flaw​

When a route is vacant, consolidated, or undergoes a major territorial change, the USPS cannot wait a full year for the RRECS system to gather 52 weeks of complete data (Mini Mail Surveys, or MMS). The contract allows for a temporary adjustment.

​

Has there been growth as in boxes added? Pretty sure there has been no consolidation or major territory change (rote adjustment) from what you have said. Yes there can be interim growth on a route (added boxes) under RRECS just as there was prior to RRECS. My understanding is that as it stands right now, when you have enough growth of additional boxes that you need to initiate a grievance to have the adjustment done. None of that is what you have been talking about, only that your name was not on 4241a. Just because a carrier retired and the route became vacant doesn't mean there would be an interim adjustment.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Has there been growth as in boxes added? Pretty sure there has been no consolidation or major territory change (rote adjustment) from what you have said. Yes there can be interim growth on a route (added boxes) under RRECS just as there was prior to RRECS. My understanding is that as it stands right now, when you have enough growth of additional boxes that you need to initiate a grievance to have the adjustment done. None of that is what you have been talking about, only that your name was not on 4241a. Just because a carrier retired and the route became vacant doesn't mean there would be an interim adjustment.

first five words are 'when a route is vacant', per rrecs my route was vacant. I'm confused a bit. my route became 'vacant' in 2024 for 17 months.

 

[EthelAnne]

You are my hero
That was.a fantastic response..so unfortunate that this is even an issue

It's not an issue. It's an administrative error (the failure to update a form to add the carrier's name) that in no way affected OP's route assignment or pay, as confirmed by the review of the OP's Form 50s.

Our compensation system is complex I wrote in my posts on this thread how I thought OP may have gotten confused, and may have misunderstood.

If OP is unhappy with the disposition of their grievance, they can contact the National Labor Relations Board. There is no way to "appeal" a decision that the union and management agree on, but we can complain to the NLRB to see if the decision was fair.

Just because you don't understand a decision, doesn't mean it is unfair. Our compensation system and all the paperwork associated with it is confusing for a lot of us.

 

[EthelAnne]

first five words are 'when a route is vacant', per rrecs my route was vacant. I'm confused a bit. my route became 'vacant' in 2024 for 17 months.

I don't know where what you've posted here comes from, but you should re-read the title of the piece, which makes it obvious that it is discussing interim adjustments. Some routes when they are vacant, are adjusted prior to posting.

I'll probably regret asking, but why was your route vacant for 17 months?

 

[Goggles Pizano]

I don't know where what you've posted here comes from, but you should re-read the title of the piece, which makes it obvious that it is discussing interim adjustments. Some routes when they are vacant, are adjusted prior to posting.

I'll probably regret asking, but why was your route vacant for 17 months?

You said it yourself, some vacant routes are adjusted prior to posting. This is exactly what I am saying occurred during the vacancy. This route per the RRECS system was marked vacant with no intention of posting it.

Form 50s were correct the entire period of the vacancy I already knew that prior to the grievance. The vacant 4241s should have been looked at and were completely ignored. It is a document/evaluation that directly affects my compensation and if there were adjustments made to the routes eval it is a serious issue, not a step 1 settlement. This is what I've been trying to convey, probably not doing a good job.

i appreciate everyone's take.

 

[justacarrier]

You said it yourself, some vacant routes are adjusted prior to posting. This is exactly what I am saying occurred during the vacancy. This route per the RRECS system was marked vacant with no intention of posting it.

Form 50s were correct the entire period of the vacancy I already knew that prior to the grievance. The vacant 4241s should have been looked at and were completely ignored. It is a document/evaluation that directly affects my compensation and if there were adjustments made to the routes eval it is a serious issue, not a step 1 settlement. This is what I've been trying to convey, probably not doing a good job.

i appreciate everyone's take.

I guess I am totally confused. You said you were awarded this route right at the time RRECS was implemented. Now you are saying it was vacant under RRECS with no intention of posting it. Are you the regular on this route? If so when were you awarded this route? If the 50's show you as the assigned regular carrier then the route was not vacant?

 

[Goggles Pizano]

I guess I am totally confused. You said you were awarded this route right at the time RRECS was implemented. Now you are saying it was vacant under RRECS with no intention of posting it. Are you the regular on this route? If so when were you awarded this route? If the 50's show you as the assigned regular carrier then the route was not vacant?

Yes I am the regular, awarded right after RRECS was implemented. First couple of evals 4241s were correct with me listed. I was removed from the 4241s June of 2024. in the RRECS system the route was listed as vacant. Form 50s were correct, 2 separate systems I believe.