Hostility, Harassment, or Discrimination???

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
So how do you know?? What are the differences???

If you feel you're receiving disparate treatment... so you wonder why??? Are you the only one of a certain group, racially, ethnically, gender, maybe the only veteran... could it be discrimination???

What if you feel you're being singled out for additional scrutiny, or maybe your route is always receiving the lowest evaluation of all the routes on a consistent basis, even after route rebuilds... even how you are greeted in the mornings... could it be more than just a coincidence?? And if you think so, what should you do???

How do you know??? How do you decide, and what do you do???

I think I've heard some peeps on here addressing this in different threads... what has your experience been???
 

charlie

Well-known member
I se red in different shades... Hostility is antagonistic, aggressive, confrontational, etc per dictionary. Harrassment is behaviors of an offensive nature... Discrimination is the unjust or prejudicial treatment on another, bigotry. Discrimination is the narrowest of hostilitiies and harrassments and most often, illegal. Hostility may not rise to harassment. I am hostile to folks who wear red pants. It is obvious. But I never harass over it. Never get in someone's face but they know from my talk and mannerisms that I don't like it. Actually this is all a lot of semantics... If managment does any, they are wrong.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Well, if they're smart (big IF) then they'll try to be subtle and sneaky about it... but after awhile it starts to become more and more apparent...

I don't know if you recall the thread about passing the hat at the PO... but that's one that started making this more clear for me...

And after I saw how diff peeps were being treated in that episode... I started noticing other areas, like always ending up with lower route evals than everybody else... lots of driver observations... even noticed doughnuts were being brought in on days I was off...

What are the motivations behind this treatment... that's not as clear to me... and then I ponder, should I just let it ride, and wait until something bigger comes along and report it via grievance or EEO channels...

I've heard of others on here talking about filing EEO complaints and grievances on these issues, and was just wondering what their experiences were, and whether any got any real satisfaction from the process...
 

callofthewild

Active member
Look on the bright side....if they bring doughnuts on your days off.....think of all the calories you will save. Sounds like psychological warfare....weaken morale, cut off a support system.....then they win. Don't let them win.....be your happy little self.....DB. Cooper
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I know... if not for ruining morale, destroying any sort of productive work environment, etc... then what purpose would the geekazoids serve??? :unsure:
 

Morty

Well-known member
Im the only man in my office.

So i play the gender card. Ill know in 60 days my outcome. I asked for my boss, and her boss to be fired in accordance with all the anti discrimination publications.

I have doubts. My case worker, mediator, investigator, and head of the office all female. Think a man will get a fair deal?
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I'm the only military veteran in my office... and I've heard others in the office make negative comments regarding veterans working for the PO... so if it gets much more hostile, I'm thinking of charging discrimination based upon my miltary service... they come off with all of this lip service about how they appreciate your service, and then turn around and screw you over and stab you in the back at every opportunity... gets old... 👹
 

Morty

Well-known member
My "journey" started in May, but the abuse started in '13.

I thought being a steward would afford me higher privilege, and i feel it did in some ways, but not in the harrassment department. My DR said flat out NO!.

First you gotta document, even trivial crap. Then approach the offender and say you don't like it and ask them to stop. Document the date/time and note followed publication 552 protocol. Tell the PM, they must follow pub.553.

So when your PM fails to act, and the poom fails to act. You file an EEO, because you did all that you could and you documented it. The PM and POOM intentionally ignored you. Then you demand they be fired, because they fire carriers for far less. Also call your local EAP counselor and spill the beans. In an EEO case, they will ask for a release, then the counselor can give thier opinion.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I have considered the EAP deal as well... so far I haven't contacted them tho...

I guess if nothing else it would give me a chance to discuss the harassment and get their opinon on it... :unsure:
 

callofthewild

Active member
Thankfully my abusive PM was moved and given a raise.....but speaking from experience calling the EAP isn't a bad deal. The day I called, the EAP got me an appointment the same day ....and yes it helped a lot. I know everyone is different and will have different results but the EAP is a benefit afforded us and If you need it use it.

I don't know if the fact there is EAP activity in your PO is reported to anyone; but someone pays the bill and my thinking was the more they are paying out on any given PM.... maybe someone will start paying attention to what is going on. But that is just me....everyone needs to make up their own mind. I used every tool available to me to survive the ordeal the Postal Service allow to happen over the course of 4 years. And you know something worked....because I am still drawing a paycheck.
 

RDruckus

Member
Cutting you off from in-office support sounds like what the girls do in high school. (Some never mature🚼.) I filed two grievances in consecutive years against PM and supv for harassment. And yes, my PM got promoted to POOM. 😒
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Thankfully my abusive PM was moved and given a raise.....but speaking from experience calling the EAP isn't a bad deal. The day I called, the EAP got me an appointment the same day ....and yes it helped a lot. I know everyone is different and will have different results but the EAP is a benefit afforded us and If you need it use it.

I don't know if the fact there is EAP activity in your PO is reported to anyone; but someone pays the bill and my thinking was the more they are paying out on any given PM.... maybe someone will start paying attention to what is going on. But that is just me....everyone needs to make up their own mind. I used every tool available to me to survive the ordeal the Postal Service allow to happen over the course of 4 years. And you know something worked....because I am still drawing a paycheck.
Every time I read of peeps being denied leave constantly and having to work weeks on end without days off... I always wonder why these peeps are not scheduling EAP appointments...

If nothing else, it'd be a day off... 🤪
 

Jennifer

Member
Concerning EEOs:
I filed one about 10 years ago. It had a generic result with "big misunderstanding/miscommunication" blah blah blah response.
While I was a Steward, a carrier requested I just"be present", because the carrier felt ganged up on since the eeo officer allowed the manager as well as supervisor to be present. I was only there for support and take notes for the carrier. Not to speak. Before the meeting began, the eeo lady introduced herself. This "UNBIASED, NEUTRAL " person happened to recognize the supervisor. It turns out the EEO lady also taught motivational speaking to the management at district.
Take what you want from that info, but I know what it told me. And I couldn't get anyone to give a **** about it.
Now a little older and wiser, I am aware that there truly is NOTHING we can do about the corruption. However, it doesn't prevent me from documenting, and whistle blowing every time I see fit. The difference is, the route I take.
I currently have an EEO active. I think I still do. I opened the case online 2-14. Got a call from a lady 2-19. Not a letter, call or email since. My expectations weren't high to begin with, but I at least figured I'd be lied to. Not flat out ignored.
So, in addition to all the other crap I have going on, I just add that to the list.
I'm meeting with my local Congressman next month. I'll be sure to provide my extended list of names, numbers, and addresses.
 
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Jennifer

Member
Excuse my rant, to answer what I believe your question is:
You have to be able to show how you have been discriminated against, or been retaliated against.
When you speak with the person who calls, remember they're not neutral. They all roll out of the same bed from what I've seen. They will likely try to convince you that you don't have a n issue. Still, push forward, you're creating a trail.
I chose REDRESS. They will ask you if you want this. That's when you agree to a mediator. I am now regretting that decision. I believe my "day in court" or however they do it is the better choice. I'm still exploring the situation.
The main thing is, in my view, it is not up to them to tell me how my brain should receive the situation. I'm not going to say "oh you didn't mean to say/do what you did? "that's BS. I'm a grown woman and you're not going to treat me like this anymore. So if you believe you are being treated differently, stand up to them. And don't back down.
Grievance process was a waste, except for the fact it's in my stack of documented efforts.
Good luck for ya.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Make no apologies Jennifer... I'm glad to hear I'm not just a paranoid here... the factors of corruption and evil are real at the PO...

Imo, if you feel you're been harassed or hassled, or discriminated against... then there IS a problem... and it should be addressed in a fair and equitable way... just curious, have you used EAP at all??? I'm just asking because I have considered this just to talk to someone and get an "outside" opinion... not sure if it would be of any benefit, or not...

My office had a local stewy several years ago... the pm and the stew were always at odds over something, and the stewy tried to stand up for stuff... filed a few class action grievances and so forth... but they watched him like a hawk, and made sure he never got a single thing more than the minimum required... after years of this, he resigned as the stewy, and then after that he and the PM were bestest buddies... got his route set to a 46J and put in his high-3 and retired... since then nobody has been interested in being the stewy... we all saw how things really work...

There's a fellow named Morty who posts here, and he's related some similar stories with his stewpot experiences...

So, when all of these peeps say, get involved, make a diff, etc., etc... I'm like yeah, yeah... kid yourself if you wanna... some of us are living in the real world... just sayin'...

I'm letting things ride for now... if they mess with me, I'll mess back... otherwise I'm mostly a live and let live sort of person... keep the head down and try to make it to the finish line with the minimum of drama required... wish me luck... 😉
 
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Jennifer

Member
Yes, I have done the EAP thing, once. And, unless I was misinformed, the only paid time to go was the first visit. After that it's your own time. At least it was for me. And, although I did put an honest effort in to seeing if this person could advise me, I kinda knew it was a waste of time.
My experience was going in and talking with a therapist for 1 hour a week, for I believe it was 6 wish or so. This lady had never been an employee of the USPS. As I enlightened her of the far ugly truth of employment there, I still do not believe she truly got it. And, it really didn't matter because she can't fix it.
At the end, I was starting to think "I started going here to help me not go insane at my job.....but as I complete my time, I think it's too late. I'm nuts to stay at the dang job. "
So yes, hahaha, EAP is available. I'm just glad I didn't actually pay a copay every week to sit for an hour in a room full of pictures of peaceful sceneries as a lady writes whatever she wrote about the disgruntled postal worker.
BTW, 1 hour is NOT Fair. I'm just getting warmed up at an hour!
 

eomr

Active member
I'm the only military veteran in my office... and I've heard others in the office make negative comments regarding veterans working for the PO... so if it gets much more hostile, I'm thinking of charging discrimination based upon my miltary service... they come off with all of this lip service about how they appreciate your service, and then turn around and screw you over and stab you in the back at every opportunity... gets old... 👹
I'm a vet too and I never experienced what you brought up. I'm sorry that you did. Other things, like how much mail I got and I have a easier route than others. After a while I just chose to ignore it. Try doing that and you'll find that things tend to go away. There's always going to be someone who doesn't care for you because your life doesn't suck as much as their's. I dealt with two or three of those types.
 

Morty

Well-known member
EAP is 6 free sessions, after 6 they will ask if you need more. Yes and you get 6 more. Schedule your appointment on your heaviest day. Write EAP, PM harassment in the reason box.

REDRESS is a joke. "Anything said is confidential and cannot be cited in any future cases" translation: mngt and you can tell the biggest lies, cause it's all confidential.

The mediators job is to settle for the USPS interests. Mine, after 3 hours said. What can we agree on? It was ready to write a settlement on ANYTHING, and i said she gets fired or moved, then we have a settlement.

I knew my mediator was biased when i showed a signed document. The mediator said, maybe your PM didn't review the documents before signing them? And then i had my PMs instructions from district that it didn't follow and the mpoo and mediator both agreed my PM has discretion on following directions.
 
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