Interesting conversation on the time study on Delphi

RIAdmin · May 10, 2017

The following paragraph was most interesting to me:

We were told that the program would now replace the mail count and our averages would be for 49 weeks, not two to four weeks. Everyone sat there stone faced. He said I can't believe. I always expect carriers to be cheering when I say this. The girl next to me asked me why it was only 49 weeks and not 52. I kind of laughed and said because of Christmas. Then someone actually asked that question and he verified that.

The whole conversation is interesting.. Check it out

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ruralcarriers/messages?msg=12543.1

Oi veh. · May 11, 2017

That was quite a read!

I'm thinking of printing it out and posting.

Glad to hear that "they" are looking at the whole year (basically) - have been suggesting that for years!! That makes the most sense.

Thank you for posting the link!

D.B.Cooper · May 11, 2017

I'm still not sure what it means... does it mean they're gonna look at what your average weekly "actual" time was for the year, and give you that as your weekly evaluation... if so that'd be a HUGE win for the USPS... which I could see happening... or does it mean they'll give us the average number of parcels, flats & letters we got for the year, and bounce that against a FAIR standard for delivering that amount of volume... that'd be more fair imo, but, like most things with the USPS, imo, fairness is not usually a top priority... again, jmho...

Oi veh. · May 11, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">D.B.Cooper said 
I'm still not sure what it means... does it mean they're gonna look at what your average weekly "actual" time was for the year, and give you that as your weekly evaluation... if so that'd be a HUGE win for the USPS... which I could see happening... or does it mean they'll give us the average number of parcels, flats & letters we got for the year, and bounce that against a FAIR standard for delivering that amount of volume... that'd be more fair imo, but, like most things with the USPS, imo, fairness is not usually a top priority... again, jmho... </blockquote>
Well, for those of us who are consistently out of evaluation due to bad counts, more packages up driveways and following all the rules...it's a win, ya know? For people who cut corners, eh. Not so much.

What I have suggested is to take the total amount of mail per year and average it out...which is what you are saying in the second half of your post. And I concur - that's fair. Which means, yah. Probably not going to happen.

D.B.Cooper · May 11, 2017

According to the vastly inflated and overstated "bump"... the USPS says the "average" rural route is several hours "over" evaluated... with that in mind, if they could get away with giving the overall craft a HUGE haircut on our paychecks, well, let's just say there would be a LOT of high fives being passed around among the mgt pukerds, as they reward each other with HUGE bonuses for saving all of that $$$ money straight out of our wallets... sound familiar... SSDD...

I hope that's not the final outcome of this time study fiasco... but it wouldn't surprise me at all... jmho...

Cangonow · May 11, 2017

If they will be taking piece counts from 49 weeks..that would be awesome! No more worrying about being stuck with a whole years (or more) salary based on a manipulated 2-3 weeks of the year in a slow time of the year anyway.The only concern that I would have is who is keeping track of those numbers? Probably the USPS and I know we can trust them to keep accurate numbers! Not. I like the Christmas time being held out and separate but I do think that 3 weeks is not long enough. It should be at least 6 weeks long. I wonder if the carriers actual time will come into the evaluation? Will the new evals be based on the new standards with carriers actual time being a portion of the eval? That would help account for unforseen conditions on a route that are not reflected with the new standards and also account for differences in the carriers as well. A 55 year old carrier may not be as fast as a 20 year old carrier. Maybe the new evals would be a 50/50 mix or a 75/25 mix? All kinds of questions but not many, or any, answers.

dhoward541 · May 12, 2017

If it's negotiated to use the time study and an average for the year to come up with evaluations and the Union and the USPS bargain on our behalfs that's one thing; but I never heard this discussed when the time study 1st came up.

It was about a year ago when our state steward started telling us this and then he was talking about sliding evaluations based on the amount of mail you get each day; well in my opinion that's city carriers and sliding evaluations are another name for hourly.

D.B.Cooper · May 12, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">Cangonow said 
If they will be taking piece counts from 49 weeks..that would be awesome! No more worrying about being stuck with a whole years (or more) salary based on a manipulated 2-3 weeks of the year in a slow time of the year anyway.The only concern that I would have is who is keeping track of those numbers? Probably the USPS and I know we can trust them to keep accurate numbers! Not. I like the Christmas time being held out and separate but I do think that 3 weeks is not long enough. It should be at least 6 weeks long. I wonder if the carriers actual time will come into the evaluation? Will the new evals be based on the new standards with carriers actual time being a portion of the eval? That would help account for unforseen conditions on a route that are not reflected with the new standards and also account for differences in the carriers as well. A 55 year old carrier may not be as fast as a 20 year old carrier. Maybe the new evals would be a 50/50 mix or a 75/25 mix? All kinds of questions but not many, or any, answers. </blockquote>
You make some very good points!!!

One of my main beefs against the study is that there has been virtually NO transparency... no info, nor feedback... somebody has to have an idea of how this is supposed to work... would be nice if they'd share some info with the folks it is gonna affect the most (us)... AND, my other beef is it's TWO YEARS late already... and who knows when the end will be in sight?? <img title="Frown" alt="Frown" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-frown.gif" />

22222 · May 15, 2017

they keep saying that the study is going to be an average of what we do for 49weeks. my question is, if I am not in the study, and not recording things like trips to the door then how are they going to average me. it looks like after this is settled you will have to work and then get paid for it after, unlike now we get counted and this is your pay until the next count. how will they average unless you work under the correct directions of the time study. I can see them averaging parcels, accountables, dps and fss, because they have the figures, but you will have to work for 49 weeks after the study is complete to get the correct pay. which means in my eyes, after the study is complete and settled, we will have to work 1year to get all the correct data for our routes to be paid correctly....therefore working and then getting paid for what we did last year am i wrong for thinking this way. and if i am not in the study can i use the r9 (trip to the door) in the scanner? because i want to cover all bases.

D.B.Cooper · May 15, 2017

Seems to me, somebody ought to know, but they sure as hail ain't tellin' anybody... I for one, am gonna be pi$$ed if they tell me after the fact that... yeah, here's what we've been averaging and now here's what your pay is based upon this stuff that we didn't tell you we were averaging...

Also, we're career employees and should be entitled to some minimum level of compensation/hours (40??)... I hope our POS/incompetent union will remember this fact as they're giving away the farm in their negotiations of this matter... I mean it's just our livelihoods on the line here... <img title="Yell" alt="Yell" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-yell.gif" />

LouSainus · May 15, 2017

Based on what I have seen/read long high mileage routes with few boxes will be the ones most hurt by this study. They know the 30mph average is off. The relief will come to the LLV DPS FSS NBU routes that are can have over 1,500 delivery points. USPS already knows exactly how many DPS letters and flats you get for the day. They also know exactly what parcels you have just not the size/shape. Only real varibles are raw mail volume, route delivery type(curb side, hopnstop, out the window, mounted, walking or NBU ect) and distance to front doors on houses. Two of these can be accounted for with an indepth route review. So really its only the raw mail. Maybe we get paid hourly to case raw and evaluation for the rest of the route? Raw mail can vary from ten mins of time to two+ hours during an election.

One thing that has always irked me is the fact we dont get any time at all for reloading mail into the front of the truck. I have 10 gray trays of mail vertically pulled down sometimes so its a ton of time rearranging the mail but we get no time for that only one load up time.

faceindawind · May 17, 2017

@DB... Sure we can still give you 40hrs per week. Nowhere is it written they must provide you 40 in 5 days. So it's going to be an H or J route. We have been trying to kill the AUX in office for years but can't do it. All 4 routes went from solid 43 k's to mid 43 j's in the span of 5 years due to people fleeing the more remote areas of our coverage because of big industry cuts, closings, and bad counts. While the AUX stays the same in a high density rental/ business districts terriority we once serviced.

With all this APO/RMPO going on and the availibilty of soon to be released new to your location of old LLV'S while we give our high visibility carriers the new FFV's. The time cuts you suffer from DPS/LLV and if you have FSS to boot it's going to be a sweet deal for them. The aim is to make us all J's,H's, formula, and have 1 or 2 PTF's to cover all available routes. You will also have to bid for prime time Vacay spots to make this work.( another contractual sell out) No more coverage problems for the USPS this way for our craft because these PTF's will have the same benefits as you and will not have a problem bouncing from office to office because no POV will be needed and getting the 40 per week in 5 or 6 days is what this new incoming labor force expects.

The times are a changing worldwide in regards to employment hrs. 40 in 5 days is a thing of the past. 50 years from now your children will tell your great/ grand/ kids there was a time when you actually drove your own car and they will wonder why they let someone have control of 3500 lb object hurling down the road based solely on your judgement and control. Just like hand cranks to roll down the window in your car 40 in 5 will be forgotten along with letter mail.

Nebcarrier · May 17, 2017

That may work just fine and dandy in these large cities with LLVs, but how about these boondock areas? HCR's? LLV's don't work well on gravel, snowy roads. Will make leave slips very valuable too.