RCA earning leave on primary route

[Defiant]

8.B. RCAs can be scheduled to work in other offices based on the Order of Consideration. Of course, the primary office has to be fully staffed and no regulars mandated in in order for them to get to that step. You can be a 6/0 Sub and be a sub. For example, you run an aux that is two hours a day. Management now has 10 hours they can schedule you. They can use you on another route after the Aux is completed.

That is not forcing language. And neither is the second one.

 

[Defiant]

Current COVID MOU pretty much ends forcing RCAs to other offices. If nothing else it is grounds for a grievance if forced. Going thru it again at my office currently. The regs are using SL for doc appointments till our grievances get finalized. Mention I love our regs yet cause I do.

There never was a forcible option. An RCA in leave replacement status is hired for a specific route at a specific office, to do one job, provide leave replacement on that route, for the regular. Everything else is voluntary. No one can prove me wrong. Past practice because of scared RCAs' or abusive management is not proof of anything. There is no contractual language that forces RCAs' to work other offices.

Discipline for repeated violations of unavailability is specifically referencing not providing leave for the route they were hired to provide relief for. Nothing else.

I'll admit I was wrong if you show me the documents.

 

[Twingrlie]

That is not forcing language. And neither is the second one.

If you’re scheduled you’re required to report. If you protest, you’ll be mandated. Which is essentially forced.

 

[Twingrlie]

There never was a forcible option. An RCA in leave replacement status is hired for a specific route at a specific office, to do one job, provide leave replacement on that route, for the regular. Everything else is voluntary. No one can prove me wrong. Past practice because of scared RCAs' or abusive management is not proof of anything. There is no contractual language that forces RCAs' to work other offices.

Discipline for repeated violations of unavailability is specifically referencing not providing leave for the route they were hired to provide relief for. Nothing else.

I'll admit I was wrong if you show me the documents.

RCAs are hired for their office not their route. They work for the city they apply in which can also include multiple offices within that city. RCAs in leave earning have an entitlement to the hours of that route and can be made to work other routes as well.
Discipline for failure to follow is the surest way to get fired fairly easily and that’s what it boils down to. Disobeying direct orders.
You will lose your grievance if you’re going by language that doesn’t use the term force. Article 3 is management’s right to manage and that means they can mandate subs to do whatever they want (provided it’s not unsafe) and the Union will always say to obey and then grieve. If you disobey, it’s a failure to follow and that discipline will stick.

 

[gotstamps]

There never was a forcible option. An RCA in leave replacement status is hired for a specific route at a specific office, to do one job, provide leave replacement on that route, for the regular. Everything else is voluntary. No one can prove me wrong. Past practice because of scared RCAs' or abusive management is not proof of anything. There is no contractual language that forces RCAs' to work other offices.

Discipline for repeated violations of unavailability is specifically referencing not providing leave for the route they were hired to provide relief for. Nothing else.

I'll admit I was wrong if you show me the documents.

Article 30.2.C & Article 30.2.D

All RCAs are Leave Replacements & are hired to work whatever route mgmt needs them to work. RCAs work for the Post Office NOT just for the Regular Carrier. They can be utilized on up to 3 routes yet if the PO needs them to work other routes, it is allowed by contract.

 

[Defiant]

If you’re scheduled you’re required to report. If you protest, you’ll be mandated. Which is essentially forced.

If you agree to be scheduled you are required to report, possibly. They can't forcibly schedule an RCA to another office.

Just think. If every RCA that signed up to work there hometown office, as needed, knew they couldn't be forced to kill themselves working all over the place, we might not be at HISTORIC lows for RCAs' right now.

 

[Twingrlie]

If you agree to be scheduled you are required to report, possibly. They can't forcibly schedule an RCA to another office.

Just think. If every RCA that signed up to work there hometown office, as needed, knew they couldn't be forced to kill themselves working all over the place, we might not be at HISTORIC lows for RCAs' right now.

You keep saying forced like it holds any weight. Of course no one at any job is forced to do any part of their job. Ultimately, if you want to keep earning a paycheck with that company, you’ll do the requirements of the job. If an RCA does not comply with their schedule, they have the option to not report and will be subject to discipline. It’s really not that complicated.

You agree to be scheduled the moment you accept the job offer.

 

[Defiant]

Article 30.2.C & Article 30.2.D

All RCAs are Leave Replacements & are hired to work whatever route mgmt needs them to work. RCAs work for the Post Office NOT just for the Regular Carrier. They can be utilized on up to 3 routes yet if the PO needs them to work other routes, it is allowed by contract.

Sorry, read those Articles again. PTF is the dominant discussion. An RCA serving as a leave replacement for a specific route is not a PTF.

 

[Defiant]

You keep saying forced like it holds any weight. Of course no one at any job is forced to do any part of their job. Ultimately, if you want to keep earning a paycheck with that company, you’ll do the requirements of the job. If an RCA does not comply with their schedule, they have the option to not report and will be subject to discipline. It’s really not that complicated.

You agree to be scheduled the moment you accept the job offer.

For the route and office you accept the job offer for. Nothing else.

 

[Twingrlie]

For the route and office you accept the job offer for. Nothing else.

For the city* you accept the job offer for which you then reaffirm when you are given your contract and continue to work for the postal service. There’s no route number attached to the job postings. Even then, if you work in an office that is understaffed and your regular always works their K day, you may not even work your primary for awhile. You’re grasping at straws, and like I tell a lot of carriers, you may want to read your contract. My city has two stations with rural routes in them so those RCAs applied for the city posting and are shared between two offices that are seven miles apart.

 

[Twingrlie]

Sorry, read those Articles again. PTF is the dominant discussion. An RCA serving as a leave replacement for a specific route is not a PTF.

A PTF is entitled to even less than an RCA. Even then, a PTF is just a career RCA. They all serve as a leave replacement for the city they work in. You will never win any grievance you file on being mandated to work other routes if management followed the Order of Consideration when scheduling. Now if they violated, you have grounds to grieve.

 

[Wilco183]

So this is what the expression "grasping for straw in a needle stack" looks like.

 

[Defiant]

For the city* you accept the job offer for which you then reaffirm when you are given your contract and continue to work for the postal service. There’s no route number attached to the job postings. Even then, if you work in an office that is understaffed and your regular always works their K day, you may not even work your primary for awhile. You’re grasping at straws, and like I tell a lot of carriers, you may want to read your contract. My city has two stations with rural routes in them so those RCAs applied for the city posting and are shared between two offices that are seven miles apart.

I have. That is why you can't prove me wrong contractually. You can only tell me what is practiced. What is contractual and what is allowed by a feckless NRLCA are two completely different things.

Prove me wrong with the contract. You can't.

 

[Twingrlie]

I have. That is why you can't prove me wrong contractually. You can only tell me what is practiced. What is contractual and what is allowed by a feckless NRLCA are two completely different things.

Prove me wrong with the contract. You can't.

Prove you wrong on what? I showed you where management has the right to schedule RCAs on other routes and at other offices. I posted the documentation. I’m not sure what else you need.

 

[Defiant]

Prove you wrong on what? I showed you where management has the right to schedule RCAs on other routes and at other offices. I posted the documentation. I’m not sure what else you need.

Don't gaslight me, no you did not.

 

[gotstamps]

I have. That is why you can't prove me wrong contractually. You can only tell me what is practiced. What is contractual and what is allowed by a feckless NRLCA are two completely different things.

Prove me wrong with the contract. You can't.

We already did.

Article 30.2.C.2: “When necessary or desirable, a substitute, rural carrier associate, or rural carrier relief employee who is assigned to one route may be utilized on up to three routes. However, the employee’s prime responsibility is to the assigned route.”

Article 30.2.D.1: “A leave replacement assignment list showing the primary leave replacements assigned to each route and the second and third leave replacements to be utilized on each route…”
Article 30.2.D.3: “If the second and third leave replacements designated for the route are unavailable, … the route shall be assigned to qualified substitutes, rural carrier associates, or rural carrier relief employees assigned to that delivery unit in the order of the longest period of continuous service …”

The ONLY parts of Articles C & D that speak to PTFs is that they may be assigned as Primary on more than one route & that they may be utilized on any route prior to using the Secondary & Tertiary subs.

@Twingrlie is correct that you would lose in a grievance using your arguments. You have been proven wrong time & again but refuse to concede.

 

[Defiant]

We already did.

Article 30.2.C.2: “When necessary or desirable, a substitute, rural carrier associate, or rural carrier relief employee who is assigned to one route may be utilized on up to three routes. However, the employee’s prime responsibility is to the assigned route.”

Article 30.2.D.1: “A leave replacement assignment list showing the primary leave replacements assigned to each route and the second and third leave replacements to be utilized on each route…”
Article 30.2.D.3: “If the second and third leave replacements designated for the route are unavailable, … the route shall be assigned to qualified substitutes, rural carrier associates, or rural carrier relief employees assigned to that delivery unit in the order of the longest period of continuous service …”

The ONLY parts of Articles C & D that speak to PTFs is that they may be assigned as Primary on more than one route & that they may be utilized on any route prior to using the Secondary & Tertiary subs.

@Twingrlie is correct that you would lose in a grievance using your arguments. You have been proven wrong time & again but refuse to concede.

A 6-0 AUX carrier signs a form to relinquish primary, second and third leave replacement status. So strike that argument out.

And how do I know you failed with 30.2.C.2? You don't understand contract language. And I will demonstrate.

What does the heading of 30.2 say?

Special Provisions for Part -time Flexible Rural Carriers, Substitutes, Rural Carrier Associates, Rural Carrier Relief Employees, and Auxiliary Rural Carriers

Did you pick that up? Why do they say use specific language, Auxiliary Rural Carriers, AFTER they already said Rural Carrier Associates? Because they are treating them differently.

So, what you do next, go through 30.2 and find where Auxiliary Rural Carrier is mentioned. Guess what, it is NOT in the 3 routes fantasy you have.

I'll keep making you look stupid as long as you want me to.

 

[gotstamps]

A 6-0 AUX carrier signs a form to relinquish primary, second and third leave replacement status. So strike that argument out.

And how do I know you failed with 30.2.C.2? You don't understand contract language. And I will demonstrate.

What does the heading of 30.2 say?

Special Provisions for Part -time Flexible Rural Carriers, Substitutes, Rural Carrier Associates, Rural Carrier Relief Employees, and Auxiliary Rural Carriers

Did you pick that up? Why do they say use specific language, Auxiliary Rural Carriers, AFTER they already said Rural Carrier Associates? Because they are treating them differently.

So, what you do next, go through 30.2 and find where Auxiliary Rural Carrier is mentioned. Guess what, it is NOT in the 3 routes fantasy you have.

I'll keep making you look stupid as long as you want me to.

That’s where you are making your mistake.. you are NOT an Auxiliary Rural Carrier which is a Designation 77. You have already stated that you are a Designation 79 which is an RCA. You fall under RCA rules along with extra provisions for an RCA assigned to an Auxiliary route. (Article 30.2)
Auxiliary Rural Carrier (Des 77) is mentioned in parts of Article 30.2 in A.3.f (seniority) & N (grievance rights) as they were strictly hired for an Auxiliary route over 30 years ago.

The VERY 1st & 2nd sentences under Article 30.2.A.1 are:
”Rural Carrier Associates (RCAs) are selected by the Employer from a hiring list…”
“RCAs shall be appointed only to fill leave replacement vacancies on regular routes and auxiliary routes.”

Stop trying to convince us that you are of a different classification than any other RCA. The only rights you have as a Des 79 over other RCAs (74s & 78s) is to work 6 days a week.
Des. 74s have the right to 5 days AND being last resort on Sunday/Holiday scheduling after ARCs, PTFs, & RCAs (78 & 79).
Des 78s have rights to their Matrix routes when available & other routes by Seniority. Unfortunately, PTFs only have rights to “hours”.

 

[Twingrlie]

A 6-0 AUX carrier signs a form to relinquish primary, second and third leave replacement status. So strike that argument out.

And how do I know you failed with 30.2.C.2? You don't understand contract language. And I will demonstrate.

What does the heading of 30.2 say?

Special Provisions for Part -time Flexible Rural Carriers, Substitutes, Rural Carrier Associates, Rural Carrier Relief Employees, and Auxiliary Rural Carriers

Did you pick that up? Why do they say use specific language, Auxiliary Rural Carriers, AFTER they already said Rural Carrier Associates? Because they are treating them differently.

So, what you do next, go through 30.2 and find where Auxiliary Rural Carrier is mentioned. Guess what, it is NOT in the 3 routes fantasy you have.

I'll keep making you look stupid as long as you want me to.

Go to liteblue.com. Click My HR, then eOPF, then click access my eOPF. Click on your most recent PS Form 50. Your Des number will be there. If you’re a 78, 79, 74, or 76, you are going to be scheduled according to the Order of Consideration. They haven’t hired an Auxiliary Rural Carrier in a crazy number of years. You’re looking ridiculous going back and forth on something you’re not even considered. It’s like arguing you’re a doctor when you’re a nurse. Call it quits.

 

[psd181]

This is where you are incorrect. PTFs are NOT entitled to any route including the ones listed on their String. Mgmt “should utilize them on their String routes BUT are not required to. Mgmt can use them wherever they see fit. Mgmt CAN have them work everyday on that hold-down if they want.
PTFs are ONLY entitled to the combined hours of that String of routes that they are assigned to. They MUST be listed as the “sub of record” on their String routes in order to be paid the combined hours when they take leave & so the system knows that that Leave Replacement position is filled.

IE… Say a PTF has 3 routes on their String and all 3 are 45k routes with relief days during the week. If mgmt works that PTF on Saturday (8 hours) & Sunday (5 hours) then mgmt would ONLY be required to work them at least 14 more hours. If that same PTF works those 2 days in the example then takes Leave for Monday through Friday, they can ONLY use 14 hours of AL then would be LWOP for the remainder of the week.

From PTF implementation guidelines..................(NOTE: This entitlement is not in conflict with the parties' ageement that a PTF is not entitled to work a string route full time should the regular carrier be on extended absence or a string route becomes vacant. Rqf:. Arurlyszc to the /1\ r?g~eei~zerif, page 50-l:?uestrz - & Answer L. or.


Has this changed? I was going by memory and when I looked it up it was still on the NRLCA website.??????? PTF's are supposed to cover ALL the routes on the string before being assigned to additional work on their string or even non string ???? did this change?? If so why is it still on the website???