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Dominator

Well-known member
The geeks in District are tasked with finding ways to generate exception reports, and the exceptions are always bad, so they can be used as discipline. IF the geek doesn't find some new way to use data to hammer carriers by management, they're not doing their job and risk losing their detail and be returned to the office to carry.
Hypercritical "gotcha!" style management strikes again!
 

Old Fart

Well-known member
There are small parts of the post office that are trying to negate and overcome some of this thinking. However, it's so pervasive and omnipresent it's more than an uphill battle. Every time some person in a position of power tries to soften the hammer, a cadre of 30 year veterans shoot it down. Some offices actually try to steer away from this, but usually District is firm in handing out as much discipline as possible. They incorrectly believe that's the only way to get people to behave as they want. We are all lawbreakers and it's their job to catch us and punish.
 

Gotrope

Well-known member
There are small parts of the post office that are trying to negate and overcome some of this thinking. However, it's so pervasive and omnipresent it's more than an uphill battle. Every time some person in a position of power tries to soften the hammer, a cadre of 30 year veterans shoot it down. Some offices actually try to steer away from this, but usually District is firm in handing out as much discipline as possible. They incorrectly believe that's the only way to get people to behave as they want. We are all lawbreakers and it's their job to catch us and punish.
Absolutely. I was given a 14 day suspension recently ( zero prior discipline in 30+ years) Because...I followed usps safety policy and was injured. District forced the local pm to issue discipline even though everyone agreed I did things by the book. Of course,I had it immediately expunged but, what if was i was a younger, know nothing carrier? I could have one foot out the door because mgmt is incompetent.
 

Dominator

Well-known member
Absolutely. I was given a 14 day suspension recently ( zero prior discipline in 30+ years) Because...I followed usps safety policy and was injured. District forced the local pm to issue discipline even though everyone agreed I did things by the book. Of course,I had it immediately expunged but, what if was i was a younger, know nothing carrier? I could have one foot out the door because mgmt is incompetent.
Sometimes managers will intentionally overshoot, knowing it will get kicked.

Others will intentionally overshoot and treat it like a used car haggling point.

What a world we live in.
 

Bud Budderly

Well-known member
Absolutely. I was given a 14 day suspension recently ( zero prior discipline in 30+ years) Because...I followed usps safety policy and was injured. District forced the local pm to issue discipline even though everyone agreed I did things by the book. Of course,I had it immediately expunged but, what if was i was a younger, know nothing carrier? I could have one foot out the door because mgmt is incompetent.
Sorry you had to go through this Gotrope. Every time I read in the contract that "discipline should be corrective in nature" my BS detector goes off. From HQ down to the local offices, punitive discipline is the norm so it's no wonder the Postal Service is rife with toxic atmospheres and fear-based work environments. It reminds me of families with intergenerational patterns of child abuse where parents who were maltreated go on to abuse their own kids. There's nothing new in this statement that any of us long-haulers don't already know, it's just sad to still be in a culture where mitigating factors like past performance and the unique circumstances of each incident are ignored.
 
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Dominator

Well-known member
Sorry you had to go through this Gotrope. Every time I read in the contract that "discipline should be corrective in nature" my BS detector goes off. From HQ down to the local offices, punitive discipline is the norm so it's no wonder the Postal Service is rife with toxic atmospheres and fear-based work environments. It reminds me of families with intergenerational patterns of child abuse where parents who were maltreated go on to abuse their own kids. There's nothing new in this statement that any of us long-haulers don't already know, it's just sad to still be in a culture where mitigating factors like past performance and the unique circumstances of each incident are ignored.
Poetic fact, @Bud Budderly!

Unfortunate to read, yet present in various times and locations.

I'm convinced that some on both sides don't know and can't separate the differences of "punishment" and "correction", but count them as one in the same. The "punishment" is or becomes the "correction".

Punishment leads to erosion of relationship, frustration, fear, and aggression. Corrections (properly done) pave the way for trust, respect, calmness, peacefulness, and happiness.

Remember that your goal, as a [supervisor and managerial employee], is to create a [realistically productive employee]. Sometimes this requires warnings in [proper directions] they can understand — i.e. corrections. But it never should get to punishing, which makes [employees] less happy and erodes your relationship [and workplace environment].

Learn to correct before a misbehavior, then redirect and reward. Don’t wait for [breaching] behavior, then try to punish it out of existence.


Changing the focus of a dog training school ad from "dog" to "postal subordinates" offers a rude awakening.
 

hockey94

Well-known member
Simply put the PO is pretty much all negative reinforcement, which is sad. I really never see that changing based on my approx 20 years. The telecons are pretty much the same thing I am sure. The ppl on here can probably speak better to that !

I just let the all the negative crap go in one ear and out the other.
 

Old Fart

Well-known member
Sorry you had to go through this Gotrope. Every time I read in the contract that "discipline should be corrective in nature" my BS detector goes off. From HQ down to the local offices, punitive discipline is the norm so it's no wonder the Postal Service is rife with toxic atmospheres and fear-based work environments. It reminds me of families with intergenerational patterns of child abuse where parents who were maltreated go on to abuse their own kids. There's nothing new in this statement that any of us long-haulers don't already know, it's just sad to still be in a culture where mitigating factors like past performance and the unique circumstances of each incident are ignored.
Post Office management is REWARDED for disciplining personnel. When an error of some kind is made somewhere, as SOON as it's discovered, the instant reaction is first determine whom to blame. The second is what discipline can be metered out to that person. The CULTURE has been from TOP down for decades. People are necessary evils, they'd be replaced with a machine if they could figure out how. Management knows many are "locked in" where they're vested in retirement and benefits, so they can absorb as much abuse as can possibly be given out. This is SICK. Don't go telling me people are VALUED because we all know its an outright constructive LIE.
 

Bud Budderly

Well-known member
Management knows many are "locked in" where they're vested in retirement and benefits, so they can absorb as much abuse as can possibly be given out. This is SICK. Don't go telling me people are VALUED because we all know its an outright constructive LIE.
And rural carriers have the unique, contractual disadvantage of not having the flexibility that would allow us to easily switch crafts or transfer to a better office. If we are stuck in one of these hellholes our options are either to ride it out and hope the next devil is better than the one we knew, or quit which is for most of the "locked in" crowd, not an option. I really feel for RDruckus and so many others in this forum who have to endure this kind of abuse on a daily basis, for years on end. I was very lucky, relatively speaking.
 

Old Fart

Well-known member
And rural carriers have the unique, contractual disadvantage of not having the flexibility that would allow us to easily switch crafts or transfer to a better office. If we are stuck in one of these hellholes our options are either to ride it out and hope the next devil is better than the one we knew, or quit which is for most of the "locked in" crowd, not an option. I really feel for RDruckus and so many others in this forum who have to endure this kind of abuse on a daily basis, for years on end. I was very lucky, relatively speaking.
Wholly concur. Was discussing with 35 yr city carrier today. He was shocked that rural carriers couldn't transfer to another office. Welcome to our world.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Post Office management is REWARDED for disciplining personnel. When an error of some kind is made somewhere, as SOON as it's discovered, the instant reaction is first determine whom to blame. The second is what discipline can be metered out to that person. The CULTURE has been from TOP down for decades. People are necessary evils, they'd be replaced with a machine if they could figure out how. Management knows many are "locked in" where they're vested in retirement and benefits, so they can absorb as much abuse as can possibly be given out. This is SICK. Don't go telling me people are VALUED because we all know its an outright constructive LIE.
We are hammered every day with errors from others.... wrong mail handed to us by clerks..... parcels in our lookahead at the end of the day for stuff sent to wrong PO's... funked up DPS, late trucks, etc., etc... but I seldom see any fuss made about these issues... they're too busy blabbing about "excessive" backing, driver observations, and other carrier-hostile nonsense..... js.... sheezy Louisy.... is it only carriers who are accountable???? 🤔 🤷‍♂️🤯
 

Oi veh.

Moderator
Staff member
we gave up the right to transfer so non-rurals wouldn't be able to bid on our routes, thus taking a career job from an RCA. (RCR)

in the days of yore, many a PM would finish out their career by transferring to rural craft.
better pay, less stress.
 

Gotrope

Well-known member
Sorry you had to go through this Gotrope. Every time I read in the contract that "discipline should be corrective in nature" my BS detector goes off. From HQ down to the local offices, punitive discipline is the norm so it's no wonder the Postal Service is rife with toxic atmospheres and fear-based work environments. It reminds me of families with intergenerational patterns of child abuse where parents who were maltreated go on to abuse their own kids. There's nothing new in this statement that any of us long-haulers don't already know, it's just sad to still be in a culture where mitigating factors like past performance and the unique circumstances of each incident are ignored.
It's ok, I expected the stupidity. During the ii I asked, can this injury interview lead to discipline? They all answered, no.
Then, I asked why I was being issued discipline at all - let alone a 14 day. Answer- because mpoo told us we had to. So...the mpoo is disciplining me? He initiated and concurred his own discipline chain? Yep.
Next question, exactly what rule did I violate which caused the discipline? Nothing, you did everything right. You even had dog spray with you. So, I'm being disciplined because I'm an exemplary employee? Yep and mpoo is a b@$7@3. Direct quote.

I swear, I only go to work for the amazing laughs these days 🤣
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
It's ok, I expected the stupidity. During the ii I asked, can this injury interview lead to discipline? They all answered, no.
Then, I asked why I was being issued discipline at all - let alone a 14 day. Answer- because mpoo told us we had to. So...the mpoo is disciplining me? He initiated and concurred his own discipline chain? Yep.
Next question, exactly what rule did I violate which caused the discipline? Nothing, you did everything right. You even had dog spray with you. So, I'm being disciplined because I'm an exemplary employee? Yep and mpoo is a b@$7@3. Direct quote.

I swear, I only go to work for the amazing laughs these days 🤣
When I read of such nonsense perpetrated on seasoned carriers, makes me hope I can make it out the door without having to endure this before my exit.... 🤔 🤷‍♂️🚀
 

Sprocket

Well-known member
Not sure, but was given a 7 day suspension, no previous infractions at all....not even close.

Grieved, was supposed to be expunged after 90 days but took an additional 41 more.

I'll bet i was the only rural in my entire District that was suspended during the pandemic.

Knew right then I would never become career, didn't want to be in their club.

Union did nothing, grievances filed afterward went laughed at. Come March 12th next year, I won't be part of that club either.

Save for 3 or 4 management people, most are not qualified to swat flies.
 
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