There are small parts of the post office that are trying to negate and overcome some of this thinking. However, it's so pervasive and omnipresent it's more than an uphill battle. Every time some person in a position of power tries to soften the hammer, a cadre of 30 year veterans shoot it down. Some offices actually try to steer away from this, but usually District is firm in handing out as much discipline as possible. They incorrectly believe that's the only way to get people to behave as they want. We are all lawbreakers and it's their job to catch us and punish.
Relief Day Work List...sign up or not?
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DB.Cooper
Well-known member
Absolutely. I was given a 14 day suspension recently ( zero prior discipline in 30+ years) Because...I followed usps safety policy and was injured. District forced the local pm to issue discipline even though everyone agreed I did things by the book. Of course,I had it immediately expunged but, what if was i was a younger, know nothing carrier? I could have one foot out the door because mgmt is incompetent.
Dominator
Well-known member
Sometimes managers will intentionally overshoot, knowing it will get kicked.
Others will intentionally overshoot and treat it like a used car haggling point.
What a world we live in.
I don't want to say exactly but,I may have represented a carrier or two in my time. This particular discipline had so many holes i asked how long they aged it
Bud Budderly
Well-known member
Sorry you had to go through this Gotrope. Every time I read in the contract that "discipline should be corrective in nature" my BS detector goes off. From HQ down to the local offices, punitive discipline is the norm so it's no wonder the Postal Service is rife with toxic atmospheres and fear-based work environments. It reminds me of families with intergenerational patterns of child abuse where parents who were maltreated go on to abuse their own kids. There's nothing new in this statement that any of us long-haulers don't already know, it's just sad to still be in a culture where mitigating factors like past performance and the unique circumstances of each incident are ignored.
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Dominator
Well-known member
Poetic fact, @Bud Budderly!
Unfortunate to read, yet present in various times and locations.
I'm convinced that some on both sides don't know and can't separate the differences of "punishment" and "correction", but count them as one in the same. The "punishment" is or becomes the "correction".
Punishment leads to erosion of relationship, frustration, fear, and aggression. Corrections (properly done) pave the way for trust, respect, calmness, peacefulness, and happiness.
Remember that your goal, as a [supervisor and managerial employee], is to create a [realistically productive employee]. Sometimes this requires warnings in [proper directions] they can understand — i.e. corrections. But it never should get to punishing, which makes [employees] less happy and erodes your relationship [and workplace environment].
Learn to correct before a misbehavior, then redirect and reward. Don’t wait for [breaching] behavior, then try to punish it out of existence.
Changing the focus of a dog training school ad from "dog" to "postal subordinates" offers a rude awakening.
Simply put the PO is pretty much all negative reinforcement, which is sad. I really never see that changing based on my approx 20 years. The telecons are pretty much the same thing I am sure. The ppl on here can probably speak better to that !
I just let the all the negative crap go in one ear and out the other.
I just let the all the negative crap go in one ear and out the other.
Post Office management is REWARDED for disciplining personnel. When an error of some kind is made somewhere, as SOON as it's discovered, the instant reaction is first determine whom to blame. The second is what discipline can be metered out to that person. The CULTURE has been from TOP down for decades. People are necessary evils, they'd be replaced with a machine if they could figure out how. Management knows many are "locked in" where they're vested in retirement and benefits, so they can absorb as much abuse as can possibly be given out. This is SICK. Don't go telling me people are VALUED because we all know its an outright constructive LIE.
Bud Budderly
Well-known member
And rural carriers have the unique, contractual disadvantage of not having the flexibility that would allow us to easily switch crafts or transfer to a better office. If we are stuck in one of these hellholes our options are either to ride it out and hope the next devil is better than the one we knew, or quit which is for most of the "locked in" crowd, not an option. I really feel for RDruckus and so many others in this forum who have to endure this kind of abuse on a daily basis, for years on end. I was very lucky, relatively speaking.
Wholly concur. Was discussing with 35 yr city carrier today. He was shocked that rural carriers couldn't transfer to another office. Welcome to our world.
DB.Cooper
Well-known member
We are hammered every day with errors from others.... wrong mail handed to us by clerks..... parcels in our lookahead at the end of the day for stuff sent to wrong PO's... funked up DPS, late trucks, etc., etc... but I seldom see any fuss made about these issues... they're too busy blabbing about "excessive" backing, driver observations, and other carrier-hostile nonsense..... js.... sheezy Louisy.... is it only carriers who are accountable????
It's ok, I expected the stupidity. During the ii I asked, can this injury interview lead to discipline? They all answered, no.
Then, I asked why I was being issued discipline at all - let alone a 14 day. Answer- because mpoo told us we had to. So...the mpoo is disciplining me? He initiated and concurred his own discipline chain? Yep.
Next question, exactly what rule did I violate which caused the discipline? Nothing, you did everything right. You even had dog spray with you. So, I'm being disciplined because I'm an exemplary employee? Yep and mpoo is a b@$7@3. Direct quote.
I swear, I only go to work for the amazing laughs these days
DB.Cooper
Well-known member
When I read of such nonsense perpetrated on seasoned carriers, makes me hope I can make it out the door without having to endure this before my exit....It's ok, I expected the stupidity. During the ii I asked, can this injury interview lead to discipline? They all answered, no.
Then, I asked why I was being issued discipline at all - let alone a 14 day. Answer- because mpoo told us we had to. So...the mpoo is disciplining me? He initiated and concurred his own discipline chain? Yep.
Next question, exactly what rule did I violate which caused the discipline? Nothing, you did everything right. You even had dog spray with you. So, I'm being disciplined because I'm an exemplary employee? Yep and mpoo is a b@$7@3. Direct quote.
I swear, I only go to work for the amazing laughs these days
Sprocket
Well-known member
Not sure, but was given a 7 day suspension, no previous infractions at all....not even close.
Grieved, was supposed to be expunged after 90 days but took an additional 41 more.
I'll bet i was the only rural in my entire District that was suspended during the pandemic.
Knew right then I would never become career, didn't want to be in their club.
Union did nothing, grievances filed afterward went laughed at. Come March 12th next year, I won't be part of that club either.
Save for 3 or 4 management people, most are not qualified to swat flies.
Grieved, was supposed to be expunged after 90 days but took an additional 41 more.
I'll bet i was the only rural in my entire District that was suspended during the pandemic.
Knew right then I would never become career, didn't want to be in their club.
Union did nothing, grievances filed afterward went laughed at. Come March 12th next year, I won't be part of that club either.
Save for 3 or 4 management people, most are not qualified to swat flies.
