RRECS: Driveway Time

C$$

Well-known member
I'm looking at the study comparison here. Next stop is parcels, but we need a few more tools before we get there.

This thread is about driveway time. How much time is alotted to drive all the way down that washed out, cratered, lame excuse for a driveway?

This chart is the answer. Note the times (y-axis) include both going down the driveway and coming back.


drivewayTime.png

But that is much MUCH too complicated. Use C$$'s super simplifier (it will get you close enough). Again these times are for both going down the driveway and returning.

How long is the driveway?
1) Less than the length of a swimming pool: 6 seconds
2) About the length of a swimming pool: 15 seconds
3) About the length of a soccer/football field: 30 seconds
4) About the length of 2 soccer/football fields: 45 seconds
5) About 1/4 mile (use odometer)? 75 secs
6) About 1/2 mile (use odometer)? 120 secs
7) Longer than 1/2 mile? Don't go down it, I don't think you will get paid.

You can sort of guesstimate between points for enhanced accuracy. Longer than 2 football fields but shorter than 1/4 mile: 55'ish seconds.

I would encourage you to roughly track this as you go about your route this week.
 

gerl2

Well-known member
I'm looking at the study comparison here. Next stop is parcels, but we need a few more tools before we get there.

This thread is about driveway time. How much time is alotted to drive all the way down that washed out, cratered, lame excuse for a driveway?

This chart is the answer. Note the times (y-axis) include both going down the driveway and coming back.


View attachment 606

But that is much MUCH too complicated. Use C$$'s super simplifier (it will get you close enough). Again these times are for both going down the driveway and returning.

How long is the driveway?
1) Less than the length of a swimming pool: 6 seconds
2) About the length of a swimming pool: 15 seconds
3) About the length of a soccer/football field: 30 seconds
4) About the length of 2 soccer/football fields: 45 seconds
5) About 1/4 mile (use odometer)? 75 secs
6) About 1/2 mile (use odometer)? 120 secs
7) Longer than 1/2 mile? Don't go down it, I don't think you will get paid.

You can sort of guesstimate between points for enhanced accuracy. Longer than 2 football fields but shorter than 1/4 mile: 55'ish seconds.

I would encourage you to roughly track this as you go about your route this week.

I already see a flaw they can't seem to get mileage correct without trimming miles off of routes, yes this is going on in our area many grievances are being filed because of the GPS can't get miles correct. So they are filing individual grievances to have a calibrated car to come and get the correct measurement. Do you think they can get driveways correct?
 

C$$

Well-known member
Do you think they can get driveways correct?

No, I really doubt they will get driveway lengths 100% correct for every driveway on every route. Even if they were the best driveway measurers in the world, they'd be bound to make some mistakes with that many measurements.

But I also don't attribute it to malicious intent: they are hitting the limits of the cheap, simple GPS chips in our scanners.

So that is the point of my simplified method above. Give me a driveway, and I could stare at the drive speed matrix until I was cross-eyed, but I still couldn't tell you how long it should take to drive it.

However I can look at a driveway and say 'yeah about a football field, 30 seconds.' So it is a quick double check for when/if the RRECS beast is unleashed.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Seems lately there's been more emphasis on NOT going up the driveways... they SAY to avoid backing and such... could the real reason be that they are trying to keep the overall route mileage on the scanners down???

We know they've been checking route mileage via the scanners for the past few months... :unsure:
 
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gerl2

Well-known member
Seems lately there's been more emphasis on NOT going up the driveways... they SAY to avoid backing and such... could the real reason be that they are trying to keep the overall route mileage on the scanners down???

We know they've been checking route mileage via the scanners for the past few months... :unsure:
Or maybe they are looking after our health and wanting us to walk these packages for a few pennies. ?
 

WestCoastRural

Well-known member
C$$…... I would be interested to see this chart with another layer for walking time from road..... to see comparison.


It should be the same since they both are measured in feet. From mailbox to front door and back.
I'm looking at the study comparison here. Next stop is parcels, but we need a few more tools before we get there.

This thread is about driveway time. How much time is alotted to drive all the way down that washed out, cratered, lame excuse for a driveway?

This chart is the answer. Note the times (y-axis) include both going down the driveway and coming back.


View attachment 606

But that is much MUCH too complicated. Use C$$'s super simplifier (it will get you close enough). Again these times are for both going down the driveway and returning.

How long is the driveway?
1) Less than the length of a swimming pool: 6 seconds
2) About the length of a swimming pool: 15 seconds
3) About the length of a soccer/football field: 30 seconds
4) About the length of 2 soccer/football fields: 45 seconds
5) About 1/4 mile (use odometer)? 75 secs
6) About 1/2 mile (use odometer)? 120 secs
7) Longer than 1/2 mile? Don't go down it, I don't think you will get paid.

You can sort of guesstimate between points for enhanced accuracy. Longer than 2 football fields but shorter than 1/4 mile: 55'ish seconds.

I would encourage you to roughly track this as you go about your route this week.


I don’t think you get paid to drive down the driveway. You get paid for walking it.

Interesting to see what verdict will be.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
It should be the same since they both are measured in feet. From mailbox to front door and back.


I don’t think you get paid to drive down the driveway. You get paid for walking it.

Interesting to see what verdict will be.
I thought I had heard RRECS *WOULD* pay us for *ALL* of our mileage... even up and down driveways... is this not true??? :unsure:
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I don’t know. I am just looking at the RRECS’s formula.

Then it’s the first time I am hearing it. That means those driveway is also become part of the route.
I figured the way it would work was that during the data collection period, the scammer would track our *total* daily route mileage, and then they'd take the average of those miles and that is what they would base our mileage upon...
Even now, they are tracking our *total* daily route mileage, as I've heard the clerk mentoring it's one of the things they have to look at, along with backing and so forth... :unsure:

At some point, someday... somebody, needs to explain to us how this is all *really* supposed to work... just sayin'... :oops:
 

Wilco183

Well-known member
I don’t know. I am just looking at the RRECS’s formula.

Then it’s the first time I am hearing it. That means those driveway is also become part of the route.
I'm thinking the line of travel and all addresses are within the geo-fenced route perimeter. Approach to front door/porch by vehicle/foot for delivery/pickup purpose is the "new" paid deviation, not credited before. Have to see how this compensates for loses elsewhere.
 

martian

Well-known member
Just my guess, but the "simplified mapping" is going to be a driveway allowance and an on-foot allowance for parcels and accountables. I cannot believe the USPS is going to keep track of every foot we drive up a driveway and every foot we walk for delivery every day. It won't surprise me if it isn't something like a 100 ft. driving and 50 ft. walking credit per parcel/accountable. Seems like there has been some posts on this site from carriers citing these numbers in passing but not attributing it to RRECS.
 

Skierstmoritz

Well-known member
Just my guess, but the "simplified mapping" is going to be a driveway allowance and an on-foot allowance for parcels and accountables. I cannot believe the USPS is going to keep track of every foot we drive up a driveway and every foot we walk for delivery every day. It won't surprise me if it isn't something like a 100 ft. driving and 50 ft. walking credit per parcel/accountable. Seems like there has been some posts on this site from carriers citing these numbers in passing but not attributing it to RRECS.
I hope it's not 50 foot walking distance average. I've been dragging these Amazon parcels to the door going on 5 years now. My average to the door is 140ft one way!
Big lots, houses set way back, no garages in a lot of instances and no place to turn around. Simplified mapping my a#$
 

martian

Well-known member
I hope it's not 50 foot walking distance average. I've been dragging these Amazon parcels to the door going on 5 years now. My average to the door is 140ft one way!
Big lots, houses set way back, no garages in a lot of instances and no place to turn around. Simplified mapping my a#$

I agree. But remember under RRECS we originally were to place two additional points of reference - where we park the vehicle to dismount and where we place the parcels. Haven't heard a peep lately about these two points during this simplified mapping phase. Meanwhile, the easiest part of the mapping - the on-street portion - is mired in controversy and delay.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I agree. But remember under RRECS we originally were to place two additional points of reference - where we park the vehicle to dismount and where we place the parcels. Haven't heard a peep lately about these two points during this simplified mapping phase. Meanwhile, the easiest part of the mapping - the on-street portion - is mired in controversy and delay.
The more I hear about this RRECS... the more I think the longer away it is until implementation, the better... ?
 

C$$

Well-known member
This chart shows the times for driving or walking a driveway. I limited it to half a mile, and again this is time for going both down and back.

drvieVsWalkDriveway.png

@ 100 ft walking time is about 1 minute (gains about 30 seconds over driving)
@ 240 ft walking is about 2 minutes (gains about 90 seconds over driving)
after that it is pretty clear on the chart.

Depends on your route. But unless you can finagle it so you walk 1/4 mile or longer driveways, expect the time gains to be modest.

I found this presentation about mapping. My understanding of how it was SUPPOSED to work:

1) Carriers would mark Mailstop, Mailbox, DDD (Direct door delivery, where you park to go to the door), and the location of the door on the map.
2) The program would calculate the distances between these points.
3) When a carrier scans "delivered at door" the scanner would indicate where they were at, and the distances would be pulled out of this mapping database.

However, from what I've heard, getting carriers to fill in this database was problematic (took too long, too complicated). Did anybody here go through this process?

So this "simplified mapping:" I think they are trying to pull these data points (Mail stop, mailbox, DDD, and door) out of accumulated scanner data instead of having the carrier populate them. I hope the union would know about this, and tell us, before the PO began this process in earnest.
 
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