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Working before clock in

I think I get why some people work before clocking in. It’s either to stay under 40 to get paid evaluation or 2080 restrictions. Why not just say you take however much time before you hit clock in as out to lunch ? It’s still the same time not worked. So come in 2 hrs before start time & then take a 2 hr lunch sometime during the day. What is to worry about. You worried about the scanner tracking you ? What about OIG agents & cameras recording you working off clock in office. Oh, nobody’s ever up in those observation areas cause you’re clever you’d know right ? Yeah right !
Lunch is only authorized for 30 minutes.
 
Wow, really? I had no idea they would give administration(free pay) days for staying under 2080. I thought a carrier had to use their earned leave or else take lwop.
You can never be forced to take LWOP for being over 2080/2240.

Managements options for going over 2080 are:

1. Give the carrier aux assistance to reduce hours. This could be package help or having an RCA run part of your route etc.

2. Asking the carrier to agree to take leave to stay under 2080. They can force you if you sign the form agreeing to use leave to stay under.

3. Threaten to cut your route. Realistically this won't happen unless you are a 47k or 48k

4. Remove your ability to select the high option.

5. Skip you on the relief day work list.

6. Pay you to sit at home by giving you admin days while an RCA runs the route.

If all of that fails nothing bad happens anyway for going over. They just have to pay you more and your postmaster gets some mean emails from his boss.
 
Sooooo again….how does early starts have an impact on RRECS and the mini mail survey that determines our pay checks?

I’m curious if the “rule followers” here also have a problem what day of the week other routes take their flyers on 🤣
proud rule follower...
close to 40 years of our standards being crushed have made a bad ass... out of me though
you're trolling among the wrong peeps just saying
 
None. You should not be working off the clock. It makes absolutely no sense to come in two hours early off the clock, then clock out for lunch for another two hours. Make it make sense to me.
I’m guilty of being a smart aleck, sorry. I’m being facetious to the ones who think there’s no harm in casing off the clock. I knew a guy who would come in on a holiday & case on his route when clerks used to work on a holiday to get a jump on the day after. Talk about OCD !
 
Then don't show up so early. My experience is the complete opposite. Every hourly job I worked, you weren't allowed to clock in until your start time, period.
I get there just early enough to not be late. If start time is 7:30, I may get to my case at 7:27. While I'm standing there waiting for those 2 or 3 minutes to pass, I may throw a few flats up in the case. It's not a lot.
 
You can never be forced to take LWOP for being over 2080/2240.

Managements options for going over 2080 are:

1. Give the carrier aux assistance to reduce hours. This could be package help or having an RCA run part of your route etc.

2. Asking the carrier to agree to take leave to stay under 2080. They can force you if you sign the form agreeing to use leave to stay under.

3. Threaten to cut your route. Realistically this won't happen unless you are a 47k or 48k

4. Remove your ability to select the high option.

5. Skip you on the relief day work list.

6. Pay you to sit at home by giving you admin days while an RCA runs the route.

If all of that fails nothing bad happens anyway for going over. They just have to pay you more and your postmaster gets some mean emails from his boss.
I’ve never been in 2080 trouble. But I’ve always seen others who have and thought they’re the smart ones. Get commanded to take off when might be a scarcity of RCAs. So to get your #6 ,they have to be out of leave or they can just get it & not have to use their earned leave ?
 
I’ve never been in 2080 trouble. But I’ve always seen others who have and thought they’re the smart ones. Get commanded to take off when might be a scarcity of RCAs. So to get your #6 ,they have to be out of leave or they can just get it & not have to use their earned leave ?
Unless you sign the paper agreeing to use leave to stay under they can't force you to.

They will try to force you to take it anyway or even not let you work and put you in for annual leave when you didn't agree to take it.

But you can file a grievance and get it back.
 
🤣 well everything you mentioned does not have an impact on RRECS scans=paycheck soooooo… I don’t care.
Good. Screw USPS policy Screw Rural contract.

Sorry, I'm an Old Fart and i obey rules even the ones I dislike. I work to change those rules. Or find alternate employment. For those who choose to do whatever they want to chase a few dollars, best of luck, as those decisions usually come back to hurt those individuals in some form.
 
I'm not sure where the line is drawn between employee capacity and personal capacity involving OWCP claims versus USPS tort liability. The Portal to Portal Act and its application is an interesting read on this concept (though I'm sure there are others).

I don’t believe you'd be SOL (if the USPS is at fault), but the arena where you plead your case may be outside a grievance meeting. 🤷‍♂️
As The Dude indicated, since it's a "few seconds" it might be considered a gray area, with the right aggressive and knowledgeable representation. Strict enforcement still indicates off the clock isn't covered. Most who work off the clock don't work a few seconds, they're working an hour or more.
 
Good. Screw USPS policy Screw Rural contract.

Sorry, I'm an Old Fart and i obey rules even the ones I dislike. I work to change those rules. Or find alternate employment. For those who choose to do whatever they want to chase a few dollars, best of luck, as those decisions usually come back to hurt those individuals in some form.
How much your route drop by following the 6 required scans rule?
 
Sooooo again….how does early starts have an impact on RRECS and the mini mail survey that determines our pay checks?

I’m curious if the “rule followers” here also have a problem what day of the week other routes take their flyers on 🤣

I take it your first sentence is a facetious one,
and since this is in “General Discussion”, I will flip the question back to you for discussion. Please answer this: What is the benefit to the Rural craft as a whole for carriers working off the clock? I mean collectively as a whole. Not individually. Help us understand why this benefits everyone, and not just individuals who want to start early for any variety of personal or work related reasons.

Also, since it sounds like you are fine with carriers working off the clock, would you explain what your personal justifications are for working off the clock besides that it doesn’t affect your pay?

As far as your 2nd sentence, were you trying to make a point that carriers concerned about coworkers working off the clock is comparable to them caring which day the other carrier delivers a WSS or boxholder mailing? Working off the clock affects all of us, not in the short term, but at each contract negotiation. What day a “flyer” is delivered only affects the individual route, so you are comparing apples to oranges here
 
Unless you sign the paper agreeing to use leave to stay under they can't force you to.

They will try to force you to take it anyway or even not let you work and put you in for annual leave when you didn't agree to take it.

But you can file a grievance and get it back.
If you request high option, don’t you have to sign or can you refuse & still get high option ? I’ve never heard of anyone fighting the order to take off to avoid going over. I’ll notice they’re out & someone will say “Oh they’ve got to take off 14 days”. I guess most people welcome that to happen & don’t stand up to management to make them pay admin days.
 
If you request high option, don’t you have to sign or can you refuse & still get high option ? I’ve never heard of anyone fighting the order to take off to avoid going over. I’ll notice they’re out & someone will say “Oh they’ve got to take off 14 days”. I guess most people welcome that to happen & don’t stand up to management to make them pay admin days.

I think you have to sign to get high option. Our management tries to get everyone to sign, even if not taking high option. Most carriers just blindly sign and don’t understand what they are signing.

Also, most carriers don’t know admin days are an option. Management puts heavy pressure on carriers in 2080 trouble to commit to using annual and sick leave days. One year they even made everyone in our office fill out leave slips even if they already had upcoming approved leave. Worst case was when management intimidated one carrier in my office to use up all their days of leave, and then afterwards the carrier got severely sick and was in the hospital without any leave, so they had to use LWOP. Double whammy. Sick and no income.
 
As The Dude indicated, since it's a "few seconds" it might be considered a gray area, with the right aggressive and knowledgeable representation. Strict enforcement still indicates off the clock isn't covered. Most who work off the clock don't work a few seconds, they're working an hour or more.
I was actually going to make my first post somewhat humorous but I couldn't find the effort....

I wanted to say something like,

"YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I COME IN EARLY AND WORK OFF THE CLOCK AND I'M NOT GOING TO LET ANY OF YOU SLACKERS TAKE THAT 27 SECONDS AWAY FROM ME!!!!!!"

It seems to be a touchy subject and I get it. We have never really had an issue with folks doing it. Most around here are much later vs earlier.

I get the "used against us in negotiations" bit. However, I have so little faith in the NRLCA and their legal squad that I honestly don't think it matters. Doesn't matter to the arbitrator, doesn't matter to the lawyers, either.

Just look at 2nd trip time. How we ever got to the original 2 minutes per mile thing is insane. We even had strict rules on when 2nd trip time was allowed and I still have a Step 4 grievance about 2nd trip time being paid to deviate to bring mail back for dispatch. It's going on 5 years now. A very clear violation of allowable 2nd trip pay has been at Step 4 for half a freaking decade. Now to add further demoralization, they fought hard and got us THREE(3) minutes per mile. They must have completely ignored the calls to pay us actual time for extra work. Weird.

Or....

Or....

Or....like I said......

They don't care.
 
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