POV on my LLV route

[invictus1440]

I was asked for the past few days if I would use my POV on my route which is assigned an LLV. The office was short and I would rather use my POV. I wont keep on doing it because I know my route would pay completely different If it was a POV route. My question is how exactly will I be paid for it? They switched it in the system that I used my POV. Will I get the minimum amount for the EMA or just the mileage?

 

[Nyfarmer]

First off; the acquisition of USPS vehicles to service rural routes was a hard fought battle. Mangelment should have been forced to come up with a replacement vehicle. That being said -- I understand that to move work along and get home at a decent time you volunteered your vehicle. As a mixed route RCA I've done so myself ! Choices are made.

The thing is that operating a POV on a route daily is generally a losing monetary proposition. The compensation does not cover the 'rust, rot, depreciation', nor the occasional down time fully. You may be able to mitigate such losses if you can do your own basic maintenance and have a good backup delivery plan/alternative in place. Your POV may have a certain personal value such as comfort (heat and AC !) , four wheel dive, a nice stereo, or the reliability of a newer model - but it is of uncompensated monetary value. It is up to you to ascertain its worth.

If you break down with your POV you are responsible to secure the mail and get the route completed. You are responsible for towing and repairs. If your sub is called in - you forfeit the entire day's pay . -- A nice payday for that RCA if it is 30 minutes (done such !!) work ! If the LLV breaks down you are paid to await rescue, do not forfeit a day's pay, the PO does the towing and repairs. Generally; the mangler on duty is responsible to see that the mail is secure.

A business advisor once told me that if you can find someone else to take the loss do so. Such should be the role of your employer. Your choice !

 

[Wilco183]

You'll get the EMA consumerate to the route's evaluated mileage, and an invite to do it again.

 

[Sprocket]

First off; the acquisition of USPS vehicles to service rural routes was a hard fought battle. Mangelment should have been forced to come up with a replacement vehicle. That being said -- I understand that to move work along and get home at a decent time you volunteered your vehicle. As a mixed route RCA I've done so myself ! Choices are made.

The thing is that operating a POV on a route daily is generally a losing monetary proposition. The compensation does not cover the 'rust, rot, depreciation', nor the occasional down time fully. You may be able to mitigate such losses if you can do your own basic maintenance and have a good backup delivery plan/alternative in place. Your POV may have a certain personal value such as comfort (heat and AC !) , four wheel dive, a nice stereo, or the reliability of a newer model - but it is of uncompensated monetary value. It is up to you to ascertain its worth.

If you break down with your POV you are responsible to secure the mail and get the route completed. You are responsible for towing and repairs. If your sub is called in - you forfeit the entire day's pay . -- A nice payday for that RCA if it is 30 minutes (done such !!) work ! If the LLV breaks down you are paid to await rescue, do not forfeit a day's pay, the PO does the towing and repairs. Generally; the mangler on duty is responsible to see that the mail is secure.

A business advisor once told me that if you can find someone else to take the loss do so. Such should be the role of your employer. Your choice !

If your sub is called in - you forfeit the entire day's pay .


Really? I broke down and was paid the miles I drove and the hours I worked. I don't believe you won't be paid for the hours you worked and the miles you used your POV, this would only happen once with me.

That said, i agree with previous....you'll get asked again. If it is a short route with many boxes and not many mile, it's not worth it. Worked a 900 box 10.5 eval route once that was 18 miles! Basically, a city route. Got paid about $14.00 to stop 550 times.

 

[Skierstmoritz]

If your sub is called in - you forfeit the entire day's pay .


Really? I broke down and was paid the miles I drove and the hours I worked. I don't believe you won't be paid for the hours you worked and the miles you used your POV, this would only happen once with me.

That said, i agree with previous....you'll get asked again. If it is a short route with many boxes and not many mile, it's not worth it. Worked a 900 box 10.5 eval route once that was 18 miles! Basically, a city route. Got paid about $14.00 to stop 550 times.

I thought the minimum ema on a route was 40 miles

 

[callofthewild]

A Regular Rural Carrier .....if they do not complete their route...........takes sick/Annual or LWOP for the day.....so Nyfarmer is correct.

 

[Tammy]

There is also a form that management can fill out to give you the difference in dps letters calculated for llv and pov it's not a lot but they are required to pay the difference since you are now using your pov

 

[hockey94]

There is also a form that management can fill out to give you the difference in dps letters calculated for llv and pov it's not a lot but they are required to pay the difference since you are now using your pov

Good Luck getting paid the difference in the DPS !! How many of these idiot supervisors/pm's actually know how to do that ??

 

[Diana_of_Themyscira]

First of all, I am an overthinker, a doer, loves comfort, hates mechanics, and very good in Math.

When I became a regular, I ended up getting an LLV route. For the first few weeks, the route's LLV gave me nothing but problems, discomfort, and near-death experiences. I could skip the problems and discomfort parts because everyone here already knows (and experiences) such so I will jump into the near-death experiences one. One time, I was going uphill, the engine quit working - didn't know what to do. Both the braking and steering were compromised. The next time, the same thing happened except this time I was going downhill. During the former, I almost peed my pants; the latter, I almost pooped my pants! Fortunately, I was able to escape both unscathed. Someone must really be watching over me. (When I was a sub, I wasn't too lucky though, my 1995 Jeep fell into a ravine when I drove over pine needles. I was fine, just had a small cut on the bridge of my nose, but suffered the loss monetarily on the Jeep).

And yes, I ALWAYS WROTE it up, but it just didn't get fixed properly. A few times, I handed the Sup the key and the write-up and as I turned my back, he gave the key to another carrier. They don't get the LLVs fixed, they just let someone else use them. What ensued was me getting different LLVs each day. (Some are filthier than the others. I had more trips to the bathroom - to puke !)
Now, this is my SAFETY at stake and the Sups will keep doing what they are doing. What should I do - file grievance while my safety is at risk? And what about the nauseating smell I had to endure inside that sweat box? (I brought a seat cover and air freshener, btw)
But yes, I understand the time, money, and effort spent on repairs and upkeep. And I hate mechanics ! (I had bad experiences with them when I had the Jeep).
So I thought long and hard, with safety and comfort in mind. (The nauseating smell had a very strong subliminal effect, BTW).
I talked to hubby and we did the math. It looked as though, I would have to invest in the beginning but it would somehow pay for itself in the end.
I bought a brand new cargo van and hubby ordered the kit and installed it. I also insisted to have satellite radio in it.
Comfort isn't free; it has its price but I'm willing to pay for it.

Now, I drive with comfort and ease and I don't have to deal with the mechanics. I just go to the dealership for the usual maintenance.
But since my route still has an LLV assigned to it, I could ask for one if I want to. And I did that when it was snowing and there is a chance I might get stuck and be towed. Five years down the road, the EMA would have covered for the expenses. But for now, I have A/C and 100+ channels on the radio and life is good.

BTW, I tried to ask the PM to convert the route to a POV one; she said it would be a long and hard process. I know EMA would be more if it were a POV but then again, I won't have the option to use the LLV if I want to. I like that one better.

Now tell me, did I do the right thing or not?
(Don't forget the nauseating smell ...)

 

[btdtret]

WONDERingWOMAN -- "BTW, I tried to ask the PM to convert the route to a POV one; she said it would be a long and hard process."

-- Probably that was BS. A call to District: "Say, I have an under used LLV here, any other post office need it?"

-- Like case wings left of the back dock - gone in a matter of days, if not hours!

"They don't get the LLVs fixed, they just let someone else use them. What ensued was me getting different LLVs each day. (Some are filthier than the others. I had more trips to the bathroom - to puke !) "

-- Should have been near the supervisor's desk when the "urge" was felt!

-- For "troublesome" LLV's and those which were not properly repaired, should have used the Form 1767 ( Report of Hazard, Unsafe Condition or Pratice ) as well as the 4565 ( Vehicle Repair Tag ) to create a documentation "paper trail".

"But since my route still has an LLV assigned to it, I could ask for one if I want to. And I did that when it was snowing and there is a chance I might get stuck and be towed."

-- Must be nice to have an accommodating post master who allows you to use a POV on an LLV route. Then again, safety and comfort can be compelling points! What ever works for you!

-- Have you asked the PM what happens should you have an accident. No doubt Postal Inspectors and probably the police will take in interest in a POV on an LLV route. ( probably shouldn't look for the PM to bail you out )

-- Be safe and drive VERY carefully!

 

[Skierstmoritz]

First of all, I am an overthinker, a doer, loves comfort, hates mechanics, and very good in Math.

When I became a regular, I ended up getting an LLV route. For the first few weeks, the route's LLV gave me nothing but problems, discomfort, and near-death experiences. I could skip the problems and discomfort parts because everyone here already knows (and experiences) such so I will jump into the near-death experiences one. One time, I was going uphill, the engine quit working - didn't know what to do. Both the braking and steering were compromised. The next time, the same thing happened except this time I was going downhill. During the former, I almost peed my pants; the latter, I almost pooped my pants! Fortunately, I was able to escape both unscathed. Someone must really be watching over me. (When I was a sub, I wasn't too lucky though, my 1995 Jeep fell into a ravine when I drove over pine needles. I was fine, just had a small cut on the bridge of my nose, but suffered the loss monetarily on the Jeep).

And yes, I ALWAYS WROTE it up, but it just didn't get fixed properly. A few times, I handed the Sup the key and the write-up and as I turned my back, he gave the key to another carrier. They don't get the LLVs fixed, they just let someone else use them. What ensued was me getting different LLVs each day. (Some are filthier than the others. I had more trips to the bathroom - to puke !)
Now, this is my SAFETY at stake and the Sups will keep doing what they are doing. What should I do - file grievance while my safety is at risk? And what about the nauseating smell I had to endure inside that sweat box? (I brought a seat cover and air freshener, btw)
But yes, I understand the time, money, and effort spent on repairs and upkeep. And I hate mechanics ! (I had bad experiences with them when I had the Jeep).
So I thought long and hard, with safety and comfort in mind. (The nauseating smell had a very strong subliminal effect, BTW).
I talked to hubby and we did the math. It looked as though, I would have to invest in the beginning but it would somehow pay for itself in the end.
I bought a brand new cargo van and hubby ordered the kit and installed it. I also insisted to have satellite radio in it.
Comfort isn't free; it has its price but I'm willing to pay for it.

Now, I drive with comfort and ease and I don't have to deal with the mechanics. I just go to the dealership for the usual maintenance.
But since my route still has an LLV assigned to it, I could ask for one if I want to. And I did that when it was snowing and there is a chance I might get stuck and be towed. Five years down the road, the EMA would have covered for the expenses. But for now, I have A/C and 100+ channels on the radio and life is good.

BTW, I tried to ask the PM to convert the route to a POV one; she said it would be a long and hard process. I know EMA would be more if it were a POV but then again, I won't have the option to use the LLV if I want to. I like that one better.

Now tell me, did I do the right thing or not?
(Don't forget the nauseating smell ...)

If it works for you and helps get u thru the grind, then yes, you did. All the best

 

[Sprocket]

A Regular Rural Carrier .....if they do not complete their route...........takes sick/Annual or LWOP for the day.....so Nyfarmer is correct.

So, the Union oks a contract with this in it? So if a route is 113 miles and she gets within 3 miles of the end and has worked 9 hours, delivered 250 packages and gets 4 flat tires....and has no leave time.......she has to do an lwop plus buy 4 new tires?

Don't doubt what you are saying but I'd have the flat bed drive me the last 3 miles to complete the route.

 

[Rcflyn]

I thought, if it’s an llv route, u MUST use llv unless one isn’t available???? How do you get away with using your POV all the time if an llv is available???

On my old route, up here in snow belt New York, my old pm would let me choose my POV or my llv on days it was snowing very hard (my POV was all wheel drive, lvls are rear wheel drive) or on severely cold days, snow belt New York hits below zero quite regularly, and any day it was below 10 degrees, I’d use my POV for its better heat.
Her and I agreed upon those terms on when I’d use my POV. But I couldn’t ever just decide I wanted to use my POV “just because”. I never abused my use of my POV, and my pm never denied me using my POV under said circumstances .....
I don’t get how you get to use your POV all the time, but use the llv when you feel your POV is at risk, so the po will foot the bill should bad things happen??????

 

[Sprocket]

I thought, if it’s an llv route, u MUST use llv unless one isn’t available???? How do you get away with using your POV all the time if an llv is available???

On my old route, up here in snow belt New York, my old pm would let me choose my POV or my llv on days it was snowing very hard (my POV was all wheel drive, lvls are rear wheel drive) or on severely cold days, snow belt New York hits below zero quite regularly, and any day it was below 10 degrees, I’d use my POV for its better heat.
Her and I agreed upon those terms on when I’d use my POV. But I couldn’t ever just decide I wanted to use my POV “just because”. I never abused my use of my POV, and my pm never denied me using my POV under said circumstances .....
I don’t get how you get to use your POV all the time, but use the llv when you feel your POV is at risk, so the po will foot the bill should bad things happen??????

We only have 1 llv route 35 miles 335 boxes.

I'm llv trained and can't stand them. I asked a couple of times about using my POV, mostly under the circumstances above (Northern NY Snowbelt) and was denied.

 

[C$$]

So, the Union oks a contract with this in it? So if a route is 113 miles and she gets within 3 miles of the end and has worked 9 hours, delivered 250 packages and gets 4 flat tires....and has no leave time.......she has to do an lwop plus buy 4 new tires?

Don't doubt what you are saying but I'd have the flat bed drive me the last 3 miles to complete the route.

Once, when I was a sub, regular broke down and called me. He had about 5 miles and 15 boxes left. So I picked him up and drove him the last part. Jerk still owes me a bottle of bourbon

 

[gotstamps]

So, the Union oks a contract with this in it? So if a route is 113 miles and she gets within 3 miles of the end and has worked 9 hours, delivered 250 packages and gets 4 flat tires....and has no leave time.......she has to do an lwop plus buy 4 new tires?

Don't doubt what you are saying but I'd have the flat bed drive me the last 3 miles to complete the route.

Sorry, but true. Keeps Regs from cutting out on the last hour to go to an appointment or for whatever reason, not that this would be the reason for this rule. It is VERY difficult to get an RCA to come in the afternoon to run the last hour of a route without something to sweeten the deal.

 

[gotstamps]

I thought, if it’s an llv route, u MUST use llv unless one isn’t available???? How do you get away with using your POV all the time if an llv is available???

On my old route, up here in snow belt New York, my old pm would let me choose my POV or my llv on days it was snowing very hard (my POV was all wheel drive, lvls are rear wheel drive) or on severely cold days, snow belt New York hits below zero quite regularly, and any day it was below 10 degrees, I’d use my POV for its better heat.
Her and I agreed upon those terms on when I’d use my POV. But I couldn’t ever just decide I wanted to use my POV “just because”. I never abused my use of my POV, and my pm never denied me using my POV under said circumstances .....
I don’t get how you get to use your POV all the time, but use the llv when you feel your POV is at risk, so the po will foot the bill should bad things happen??????

Sweetheart Deal. If an RCA were to run the route & were denied the use of the assigned LLV, they’d have a grievance & this “deal” would likely come to light to District & Labor. That alLV would be removed immediately due to the need in another office.

 

[callofthewild]

Wondering Woman........do you have anything in writing about this arrangment?? I have done alot of things and missed out on alot of events because of this job but I will be damned if I will jeopardize my family's financial future for this job. I feel you are one accident away from your PM tossing you under the bus. No way would I run a POV on a LLV route without it being signed off on by someone that has the power to accept responsibility for any financial lost...........and that would be someone in a higher pay grade than a PM. Good Luck to you......and I really mean that........accidents happen very quickly and they don't need to be your fault.

 

[Diana_of_Themyscira]

I thought, if it’s an llv route, u MUST use llv unless one isn’t available???? How do you get away with using your POV all the time if an llv is available???

I don’t get how you get to use your POV all the time, but use the llv when you feel your POV is at risk, so the po will foot the bill should bad things happen??????

We are always short on LLVs, and I mean ALWAYS. The one assigned to my route is also the "training" LLV.
If I use my LLV, then there will always be a carrier who would have to wait for another to finish a route then use that LLV.

 

[Diana_of_Themyscira]

-- Probably that was BS. A call to District: "Say, I have an under used LLV here, any other post office need it?"
* I don't think that will happen; we are always short on LLVs. And some RCAs don't have POVs. They get away with it because we are short on RCAs, too.


-- Must be nice to have an accommodating post master who allows you to use a POV on an LLV route. Then again, safety and comfort can be compelling points! What ever works for you!
* I think I'm doing them favor more than they are doing me. The carrier assigned on this route before used her POV, too. The inside story was, originally, it was a POV route but got changed to an LLV route because the PM then had to do the switch with another POV route. It sounds confusing, so to illustrate : A was a POV route; B was LLV route. Carrier on B route is too short to drive an LLV that PM said it would be unsafe for her to drive an LLV. The PM then switched the routes and made B - POV route and A - an LLV route. But al least, she did the paperwork for that. Carrier on A came back from vacation and found out the route now had an LLV. She was allowed to use her POV though. Management is OK with it so they could have the spare LLV. The spare LLV has been used for the training since then - or as a spare.

-- Have you asked the PM what happens should you have an accident. No doubt Postal Inspectors and probably the police will take in interest in a POV on an LLV route. ( probably shouldn't look for the PM to bail you out )

-- Be safe and drive VERY carefully!

* I know