Pros and cons of rural carrier commitment of guarenteed year time standards.

Kjun85 · Sep 23, 2022

With the upcoming new guarenteed time standard for 2022-2023
Im in an office with no subs. Denied al, and working k days for the foreseeable future. What would management do I refused to sign off based on these reasons? How would it hurt or help me?

Gotrope · Sep 23, 2022

It all depends on the over/under odds.

EthelAnne · Sep 24, 2022

Kjun85 said:
With the upcoming new guarenteed time standard for 2022-2023
Im in an office with no subs. Denied al, and working k days for the foreseeable future. What would management do I refused to sign off based on these reasons? How would it hurt or help me?

Just to clarify, the option to terminate the guarantee is only available to newly appointed regular rural carriers.

The first question you need to ask yourself is if you feel, over the course of the entire year, you would be over/under the route’s evaluation. A second consideration is how much management in your office might get involved in supervising you if you regularly fail to meet the route’s evaluation.

Defiant · Sep 24, 2022

Kjun85 said:
With the upcoming new guarenteed time standard for 2022-2023
Im in an office with no subs. Denied al, and working k days for the foreseeable future. What would management do I refused to sign off based on these reasons? How would it hurt or help me?

You mean promising to use your own time to keep from going over 2080? If so, I just read some language in one of the manuals about it that raised my eyebrows. I'll try to find it again after work.

EthelAnne · Sep 24, 2022

Chiefvelo said:
With a four-year gap aren't all current route evaluations invalid? Don't you feel we should have a national grievance to throw out all policies regarding exceeding evaluation time until a valid mail count is performed?

No one in my office (high volume, suburban, with Amazon) is exceeding their evaluations. I imagine we will start to work over soon, and that will continue through the peak season until February or so when we’ll return to working under again.

The viewpoints presented in this forum are not indicative of the craft as a whole. Carriers don’t come here to post “Everything is awesome!” so it’s a skewed representation of what’s going on.

I’m ready to criticize the union as much as the next carrier—and Lord knows the NRLCA deserves plenty of criticism!— but it is an enormous challenge in balancing the interests of carriers who are stressed by the current system and those who (still) benefit from it.

EthelAnne · Sep 24, 2022

PastOThirty and many more said:
All they need to do is remove or suspend the stipulation that limits it to newly appointed carriers.

While that’s true, you make it sound like an easy thing to accomplish. Why would the USPS agree to pay us hourly?

And let’s not forget, there are plenty of rurals who (still!) benefit from the evaluated system. I’m in an office full of youngsters—the next oldest carrier after me is 32. The youngest is 24. I don’t think anyone works over 35hrs/week, and that includes my not-too-far-off-from-retirement self. Four out of the ten carriers in my office have very young children—working until four or five each day would wreck havoc on their families/finances because of childcare issues.

While (I think) most of us understand why the USPS loves the evaluated system, let’s not act as though it’s incomprehensible why the NRLCA clings to the evaluated system.

psd181 · Sep 24, 2022

Kjun85 said:
With the upcoming new guarenteed time standard for 2022-2023
Im in an office with no subs. Denied al, and working k days for the foreseeable future. What would management do I refused to sign off based on these reasons? How would it hurt or help me?

the leave commitment states you will use sufficient a/l to stay under 2080, if you don't sign they could reduce the route to 40H. LOL OK, that means if every carrier in office refused, they would make many new regular routes and be even further down on manpower. LOL As I told carriers in my office for 3 years now, with the extra 10 or more hours of parcels being unpaid, that's at least 200 hours unpaid. Then they want you to take your annual leave at the end of the GP, so they get their bonuses???? Maybe they should give help/level the load to mailcount #'s the other 11 months of the year so you aren't running up 40 hours a month towards 2080.

It's funny watching the one's in my office, the carriers have refused to take AL since no leave commitment was signed. During year when carriers needed off for personal reasons or vacations, there were no leave replacements available since we don't have to bring RCA's from other offices to cover your leave.................... now that carriers are on Administrative Leave, they bring in 2 RCA's for each route down LMAO

Defiant · Sep 24, 2022

EthelAnne said:
Just to clarify, the option to terminate the guarantee is only available to newly appointed regular rural carriers.

The first question you need to ask yourself is if you feel, over the course of the entire year, you would be over/under the route’s evaluation. A second consideration is how much management in your office might get involved in supervising you if you regularly fail to meet the route’s evaluation.

This is why I asked if they were talking about signing off on using their annual leave to not go over 2080. You thought they might be talking about making Regular right before the new Guarantee Period, giving the option to not go under evaluation.

There is no way to provide information to the OP until they offer clarification.

hunchback · Sep 25, 2022

Kjun85 said:
With the upcoming new guarenteed time standard for 2022-2023
Im in an office with no subs. Denied al, and working k days for the foreseeable future. What would management do I refused to sign off based on these reasons? How would it hurt or help me?

I may be wrong but i thought the only time you were requested to sign the commitment was when you are electing the high option of a J or H route. You mentioned you are on a K route. I never signed or was even requested to sign as a K route only when i was eligable and chose the High Option.

ANYONE ELSE, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHY THEY ARE REQUESTING A K ROUTE REGULAR TO SIGN?

MNRuralRoute4 · Sep 25, 2022

hunchback said:
I may be wrong but i thought the only time you were requested to sign the commitment was when you are electing the high option of a J or H route. You mentioned you are on a K route. I never signed or was even requested to sign as a K route only when i was eligable and chose the High Option.

ANYONE ELSE, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHY THEY ARE REQUESTING A K ROUTE REGULAR TO SIGN?

They want to make sure we stay under 2080 and 2240. I have had to sign them each year.

hunchback · Sep 25, 2022

MNRuralRoute4 said:
They want to make sure we stay under 2080 and 2240. I have had to sign them each year.

Are You On A K Route? Just Because They Ask You To Sign Something, Doesn't Mean It Is Required.

hunchback · Sep 25, 2022

I wonder if the confusion about this is because some Regular Carriers have never gone through a traditional Mail Count, or so few and so long ago they forget that guarantee was in conjunction to electing the high option

Defiant · Sep 25, 2022

MNRuralRoute4 said:
They want to make sure we stay under 2080 and 2240. I have had to sign them each year.

You don't have to do anything.

Casca · Sep 25, 2022

hunchback said:
I may be wrong but i thought the only time you were requested to sign the commitment was when you are electing the high option of a J or H route. You mentioned you are on a K route. I never signed or was even requested to sign as a K route only when i was eligable and chose the High Option.

ANYONE ELSE, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHY THEY ARE REQUESTING A K ROUTE REGULAR TO SIGN?

If I remember right, a 40-42K can choose the higher 44-46J option when not in the first 10 years of appointment to regular.

Casca · Sep 25, 2022

EthelAnne said:
let’s not act as though it’s incomprehensible why the NRLCA clings to the evaluated system.

of course. No evaluated system, no need for the NRLCA. its basically what separates us from the other crafts. NRLCA would never agree to anything that would make them irrelevant. They’ll never agree to go hourly.

Defiant · Sep 25, 2022

hunchback said:
I may be wrong but i thought the only time you were requested to sign the commitment was when you are electing the high option of a J or H route. You mentioned you are on a K route. I never signed or was even requested to sign as a K route only when i was eligable and chose the High Option.

ANYONE ELSE, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHY THEY ARE REQUESTING A K ROUTE REGULAR TO SIGN?

Good time to review the M-38 on this topic of 2080.

Worve · Sep 25, 2022

MNRuralRoute4 said:
They want to make sure we stay under 2080 and 2240. I have had to sign them each year.

That’s what our office does and all but the new reg signs willingly

.

hunchback · Sep 25, 2022

Mark Oliver said:
Good time to review the M-38 on this topic of 2080.

View attachment 8221

View attachment 8222

.362 ...
This addresses sometime during the year when a carrier is projected to go over 2080/2240

1. This is not talking about at the beginning of the new year

2. The commitment is to take enough leave to stay under 2080

3. Addressing a carrier projected to go over 2240 starts with not allowing them to work their relief day. The OP said they are working their K Day for the Foreseeable future

********** IMPORTANT*********

IF YOU ARE ON THE RDWL, Management can't just give you another day off during the week and expect you to work your relief day, It doesn't work that way even if they lie and tell you they "Have the right to manage their office". If they require you to work your relief day you are entitled by the contract to elect a Code 5 which goes to the 2240 hours only.