120 day letter request

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

Can ANY regular file a 120 day letter requesting a sub, OR can it only be filed by a regular carrier servicing a K route with no sub?

Can a regular carrier servicing an H route submit 120 day letter when they are 6 days a week with no relief day?

We currently have 2 K routes and one H route with one RCA. We just hired another RCA Academy training begins this coming Tuesday.

H route carrier filed a 120 day letter a year ago. We did not qualify for a PTF. At that time we had 2 subs, one for each K route and H carrier was getting time off requested. Now same carrier wants to file another 120 day letter because pm isn’t posting an RCA position.

District rep said if she does file, we will automatically get the PTF and become a formula office. Is this true?

I don’t understand how an H carrier, not entitled to a relief Day, can request a sub specifically for their route when they aren’t guaranteed any time off. Please explain.

If our office didn’t qualify 2 years ago, why would it qualify now? Just because one was filed a year ago, what makes it an automatic slam dunk for a PTF and formula office worth a second RCA?

Gyros6875 · Jan 12, 2023

Every route is entitled to an RCA not just J and K routes. An H route carrier has just as much right to have an RCA as a larger route with relief days.

neciat · Jan 12, 2023

Yes, Any regular carrier can submit a 120 day letter. It matters NOT what route classification that regular services. An "H" route carrier is entitled to take annual leave just as a "J" route carrier and a "K" route carrier. Also, illness or other emergency situations do not discriminate. These instances can occur to any carrier regardless of route classification. This is why contractually every route is entitled to a substitute of record. Also, one never knows when a route classification may change. Just because the assigned RCA on an "H" route generally would not work too much, a mail count, DPS review, route adjustment, etc. could make that "H" route a "K" route.

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

neciat said:
Yes, Any regular carrier can submit a 120 day letter. It matters NOT what route classification that regular services. An "H" route carrier is entitled to take annual leave just as a "J" route carrier and a "K" route carrier. Also, illness or other emergency situations do not discriminate. These instances can occur to any carrier regardless of route classification. This is why contractually every route is entitled to a substitute of record. Also, one never knows when a route classification may change. Just because the assigned RCA on an "H" route generally would not work too much, a mail count, DPS review, route adjustment, etc. could make that "H" route a "K" route.

H route probably has gone up especially with Amazon. I see your point and I agree.

Is DR correct in stating because the120 Day letter was submitted a year ago and no sub was hired, that now if the 120 day letter is again submitted, we would automatically become a formula office with a PTF?

Where can I find any info on this?

neciat · Jan 12, 2023

Well, there is this https://knowledgebase.ruralinfo.net... – PTF created if two K route assignments.pdf

but you'll note that is does state if management is unsuccessful in hiring a leave replacement for a K route.

There is this from The National Agreement , Article 30.2.A.2

2. The Employer shall make every effort to expeditiously
fill leave-replacement vacancies when they occur.
Regular rural carriers shall have the right to require
that a leave replacement be assigned to their route.

I always see peeps preaching about the 120 day letter. Not necessary at all. It's ALREADY and HAS been in National Agreements that each and every route is entitled to a sub of record and management shall EXPEDITIOUSLY fill vacancies as they occur.

Dominator · Jan 12, 2023

Inquisitor54 said:
Can ANY regular file a 120 day letter requesting a sub, OR can it only be filed by a regular carrier servicing a K route with no sub?

Any regular without a primary leave replacement assigned to their route may submit a 120-day letter requesting a leave replacement.

Inquisitor54 said:
Can a regular carrier servicing an H route submit 120 day letter when they are 6 days a week with no relief day?

Yes.

Inquisitor54 said:
We currently have 2 K routes and one H route with one RCA. We just hired another RCA Academy training begins this coming Tuesday.

H route carrier filed a 120 day letter a year ago. We did not qualify for a PTF. At that time we had 2 subs, one for each K route and H carrier was getting time off requested. Now same carrier wants to file another 120 day letter because pm isn’t posting an RCA position.

District rep said if she does file, we will automatically get the PTF and become a formula office. Is this true?

I don’t understand how an H carrier, not entitled to a relief Day, can request a sub specifically for their route when they aren’t guaranteed any time off. Please explain.

Though they aren't granted relief days, they still receive Annual and Sick leave.

Inquisitor54 said:
If our office didn’t qualify 2 years ago, why would it qualify now?

I don't understand what you're asking/referencing. Would you please add context or restate your question?

Inquisitor54 said:
Just because one was filed a year ago, what makes it an automatic slam dunk for a PTF and formula office worth a second RCA?

The base rule is that a PTF position requires assignment to a minimum of 2 K routes. Your office has 2 K routes and a request for a leave replacement has been made and not filled within 120 days.

I'm not sure why a 120-day letter is taking 1 year to acknowledge and remedy, nor why no new leave replacements had been hired or trained within that year, even if they didn't stay.

gotstamps · Jan 12, 2023

Remember this…

If a PTF position is created then 2 K-routes will be needed for that String & both of those routes MUST have different Relief Days. The office would likely need to be changed to Formula if it has not already unless 1 of the 2 K-routes is willing to voluntarily change their Relief Day.
As long as there are routes without a sub, mgmt is required to keep posting the RCA position.

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

Dominator said:
question?

One year ago we didn’t not qualify for a PTF with two K routes, one H route and 2 RCA’s. We did not meet the formula to create a PTF. Some formula about 10% of K routes, etc which I don’t understand how you calculate. Also, there’s info in Article 9 about an office needing documentation of hiring efforts consisting of four (4) hiring lists within the last 6 months. We didn’t have that. NO ONE APPLIED! No one wants to work!

Is all that by passed with a second 120 day letter? What has changed is we are down a carrier and I am working my relief day on more than an infrequent basis. So based on that fact, would we qualify for a PTF or is there more to it?

What are the benefits to a PTF and formula office? Isn’t it harder to hire a sub because PTF required to fill all routes unless 2 carriers of the same day?

gotstamps · Jan 12, 2023

Inquisitor54 said:
One year ago we didn’t not qualify for a PTF with two K routes, one H route and 2 RCA’s. We did not meet the formula to create a PTF. Some formula about 10% of K routes, etc which I don’t understand how you calculate. Also, there’s info in Article 9 about an office needing documentation of hiring efforts consisting of four (4) hiring lists within the last 6 months. We didn’t have that. NO ONE APPLIED! No one wants to work!

Is all that by passed with a second 120 day letter? What has changed is we are down a carrier and I am working my relief day on more than an infrequent basis. So based on that fact, would we qualify for a PTF or is there more to it?

What are the benefits to a PTF and formula office? Isn’t it harder to hire a sub because PTF required to fill all routes unless 2 carriers of the same day?

A PTF position is the “remedy” for when a 120-Day Letter goes unfulfilled. Your office didn’t qualify for a Mandatory PTF position which is required of all Formula offices with 5 or more Rural Routes.

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

Dominator said:
Any regular without a primary leave replacement assigned to their route may submit a 120-day letter requesting a leave replacement.

Yes.

Though they aren't granted relief days, they still receive Annual and Sick leave.
View attachment 8890

I don't understand what you're asking/referencing. Would you please add context or restate your question?

The base rule is that a PTF position requires assignment to a minimum of 2 K routes. Your office has 2 K routes and a request for a leave replacement has been made and not filled within 120 days.

I'm not sure why a 120-day letter is taking 1 year to acknowledge and remedy, nor why no new leave replacements had been hired or trained within that year, even if they didn't stay.

The vacancy has been posted but not consistently. We have had a couple of people apply but were disqualified or backed out for one reason or another. We are in a very rural area and it has been difficult getting anyone to apply let alone hired. We had a carrier quit 6 months ago, leaving us with one sub. After 1 1/2 years of trying we finally got one hired. Not a very good percentage. We hope this one will want to work and stay.

Our pm should be continually posting the the rca position but have. That’s why carrier H wants to file again.

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

gotstamps said:
A PTF position is the “remedy” for when a 120-Day Letter goes unfulfilled. Your office didn’t qualify for a Mandatory PTF position which is required of all Formula offices with 5 or more Rural Routes.

So now what? We still have only 3 routes, 2 K, one H. Do we still not qualify or since I’m working my relief day on a regular basis, does this qualify us for formula and PTF?

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

gotstamps said:
A PTF position is the “remedy” for when a 120-Day Letter goes unfulfilled. Your office didn’t qualify for a Mandatory PTF position which is required of all Formula offices with 5 or more Rural Routes.

Does our office still not qualify for mandatory PTF with 2 K & one H route?

gotstamps · Jan 12, 2023

Inquisitor54 said:
So now what? We still have only 3 routes, 2 K, one H. Do we still not qualify or since I’m working my relief day on a regular basis, does this qualify us for formula and PTF?

You didn’t qualify for a Contractual Mandated PTF which doesn’t mean you can’t get one.

Office needs to be Formula or a K-route carrier switches to a Weekday Relief Day. That makes it possible for a PTF position.
An RCA must have over 1 year of service so your new Sub won’t qualify for a bit.
The position is bid Local in your Delivery Unit, then District bid, then back to Local if no takers at District. If a sub does take the position at District, your 1 sub will be forced to the H-route as their sub.

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

gotstamps said:
Remember this…

If a PTF position is created then 2 K-routes will be needed for that String & both of those routes MUST have different Relief Days. The office would likely need to be changed to Formula if it has not already unless 1 of the 2 K-routes is willing to voluntarily change their Relief Day.
As long as there are routes without a sub, mgmt is required to keep posting the RCA position.

I’m the Jr carrier and would be the one to change my Relief day if we changed to formula. Would I be able to choose my relief Day if I volunteered before going formula, or does pm tell me what day is my relief day?

Inquisitor54 · Jan 12, 2023

gotstamps said:
You didn’t qualify for a Contractual Mandated PTF which doesn’t mean you can’t get one.

Office needs to be Formula or a K-route carrier switches to a Weekday Relief Day. That makes it possible for a PTF position.
An RCA must have over 1 year of service so your new Sub won’t qualify for a bit.
The position is bid Local in your Delivery Unit, then District bid, then back to Local if no takers at District. If a sub does take the position at District, your 1 sub will be forced to the H-route as their sub.

Ooo! So the PTF services both K routes with different relief days and other sub is assigned to H route. Do I have that info correct now?

gotstamps · Jan 12, 2023

Inquisitor54 said:
I’m the Jr carrier and would be the one to change my Relief day if we changed to formula. Would I be able to choose my relief Day if I volunteered before going formula, or does pm tell me what day is my relief day?

If changing to Formula then mgmt chooses the options but if you both can come to an agreement then that’s better.

Inquisitor54 said:
Ooo! So the PTF services both K routes with different relief days and other sub is assigned to H route. Do I have that info correct now?

That is correct UNLESS nobody takes the position in a District bid. After failing at District, the bid goes back to Local for any RCAs that are out of probation to bid.

120 day letter request

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