neverringtwice
Member
Has anyone heard of a rule that says carriers cannot request annual days that are more than 90 days in the future? I had days disapproved for October and November due to "coverage unknown."
90 Day Rule?
- Thread starter neverringtwice
- Start date
blamethesub
Well-known member
I put in a leave slip in January for time off this coming September. It was approved. So I'm calling BS on this one.
A couple of years ago, the PM tried to get us to schedule all of our leave for the year in January. Actually passed around a calendar for us to fill out. I think this is a city carrier thing. We all refused.
A couple of years ago, the PM tried to get us to schedule all of our leave for the year in January. Actually passed around a calendar for us to fill out. I think this is a city carrier thing. We all refused.
BeatsAll-IEverSeen
Well-known member
It's not a rule. It's just some management tool blowing smoke up your ass. Grieve it asap.
UnknownUser
Well-known member
Our locality wants it to be no more than 60 days in advance. I've heard if you are planning a "big trip" such as airfare or something similar that requires something like actual real planning that they should approve that. Does anyone have any contract language that sites that? I know last year a rural carrier was denied leave for their wedding and that ended up being grieved and that carrier was able to receive the time off. I would like to plan a cruise in October and this would be great info for me as well.
inthesticks
Active member
No there isn’t any provision stating a limit on when annual can or can not be requested and accepted. Absolutely no local policies should be tolerated.
For contractual proof of said rule. If not grieve it.
For contractual proof of said rule. If not grieve it.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
You need to file a grievance. Carriers receive annual leave to use as they wish as long as there is a replacement available. Not knowing if there is any Rca's available doesn't prevent leave from being approved, it just means your manager has to make sure there is an RCA available for your route on the days you need. If he has to, he can hire one or another one by then and it is his job to do so. Deciding if you get leave or not that far in advance is his responsibility, and he has no choice in the matter, you get it because you "wish it ", it was decided by managers far above his pay grade when written in our contract, which can be found in Article 10.2.
neverringtwice -- "Has anyone heard of a rule that says carriers cannot request annual days that are more than 90 days in the future? I had days disapproved for October and November due to "coverage unknown.""
-- Nothing definite anywhere regarding how far in advance leave / absence requests may be submitted.
-- Long ago, there was a "suggested 3 to 5 day" limit that manglement had to approve or disapprove such a request. It was only a suggestion and never part of a contract.
-- FWIW, the following appeared in the 02 JULY 1994 issue of the national magazine as part of the "Discussion of the USPS/NRLCA National Agreement" -- in part:
It has usually been an accepted practice that Management has the obligation to respond to a leave request by the carrier within 3 to 5 days of submission, or earlier if necessary.
The discussion of the USPS/NRLCA National Agreement was approved by Andrea Wilson at USPS HQ before it was nationally circulated in the 02 JUL 1994 issue.
-- Not that is matters, the good news is that there was a Step 4 ( C0R-4B-C 11190 from 1979-80 ) which had the wording - in part: The parties agree that management will return signed 3971's to the carriers within a reasonable amount of time, which would be from 3 to 5 days after the 3971 is submitted. The BAD NEWS is it also contained the following wording: this settlement shall not be cited by either party in any other grievance proceedings, or in any other forum. ( since we are not in Rome, I guess it is safe to use it )
-- Whether you were around back in the "good old days" when subs were plentiful and Amazon parcels were not, things have [ drastically ] changed since then to the extent that Amazon parcels are plentiful and subs are not.
-- It will most likely come down to working the manglement -- using one of the NRLCA's mantras. Such as "go along to get along" or "give up something to get something."
-- Make it known as far as in advance as possible that there will be non-refundable tickets and reservations to be made. Things that just can not wait for a 3 to 5 day approval / denial window.
-- As a last resort, fill out a 3971 every day. At least it will cost them a pad of requests!
-- And if you don't get the 3971 signed and returned ( approved or denied ), that is a grievance as it is printed right on the 3971 form:
"Official Action on Application ( Return copy of signed request to employee )". Apparently it is up to the carrier regarding what a "reasonable" time frame may be.
-- Even though it is manglement's job to schedule, you may have to take matters into your own hands in lining up subs from other offices.
-- Just as a refresher, here is Article 10, Section 2. Annual Leave
A.
- Regular rural carriers SHALL be granted annual leave in minimum units of one day.
- Rural carriers should be granted annual leave in accordance with their personal wishes, PROVIDED a leave replacement is available.
- It SHALL be the responsibility of each rural carrier to plan annual leave at times when a leave replacement is available. ( better hope manglement doesn't get a hold of that one! )
- If the leave replacement for the route is committed to serve another REGULAR rural route, such leave replacement is not available.
- A regular carrier should not be UNREASONABLY denied annual leave because of the leave replacement's assignment to a vacant route, auxiliary route, or a route where the regular carrier is on extended leave.
-- Nothing definite anywhere regarding how far in advance leave / absence requests may be submitted.
-- Long ago, there was a "suggested 3 to 5 day" limit that manglement had to approve or disapprove such a request. It was only a suggestion and never part of a contract.
-- FWIW, the following appeared in the 02 JULY 1994 issue of the national magazine as part of the "Discussion of the USPS/NRLCA National Agreement" -- in part:
It has usually been an accepted practice that Management has the obligation to respond to a leave request by the carrier within 3 to 5 days of submission, or earlier if necessary.
The discussion of the USPS/NRLCA National Agreement was approved by Andrea Wilson at USPS HQ before it was nationally circulated in the 02 JUL 1994 issue.
-- Not that is matters, the good news is that there was a Step 4 ( C0R-4B-C 11190 from 1979-80 ) which had the wording - in part: The parties agree that management will return signed 3971's to the carriers within a reasonable amount of time, which would be from 3 to 5 days after the 3971 is submitted. The BAD NEWS is it also contained the following wording: this settlement shall not be cited by either party in any other grievance proceedings, or in any other forum. ( since we are not in Rome, I guess it is safe to use it )
-- Whether you were around back in the "good old days" when subs were plentiful and Amazon parcels were not, things have [ drastically ] changed since then to the extent that Amazon parcels are plentiful and subs are not.
-- It will most likely come down to working the manglement -- using one of the NRLCA's mantras. Such as "go along to get along" or "give up something to get something."
-- Make it known as far as in advance as possible that there will be non-refundable tickets and reservations to be made. Things that just can not wait for a 3 to 5 day approval / denial window.
-- As a last resort, fill out a 3971 every day. At least it will cost them a pad of requests!
-- And if you don't get the 3971 signed and returned ( approved or denied ), that is a grievance as it is printed right on the 3971 form:
"Official Action on Application ( Return copy of signed request to employee )". Apparently it is up to the carrier regarding what a "reasonable" time frame may be.
-- Even though it is manglement's job to schedule, you may have to take matters into your own hands in lining up subs from other offices.
-- Just as a refresher, here is Article 10, Section 2. Annual Leave
A.
- Regular rural carriers SHALL be granted annual leave in minimum units of one day.
- Rural carriers should be granted annual leave in accordance with their personal wishes, PROVIDED a leave replacement is available.
- It SHALL be the responsibility of each rural carrier to plan annual leave at times when a leave replacement is available. ( better hope manglement doesn't get a hold of that one! )
- If the leave replacement for the route is committed to serve another REGULAR rural route, such leave replacement is not available.
- A regular carrier should not be UNREASONABLY denied annual leave because of the leave replacement's assignment to a vacant route, auxiliary route, or a route where the regular carrier is on extended leave.
Another made up rule. Hand your PM a 120 day letter to get a sub with your annual leave request and ask them what's the problem? WE earn leave to take when we want to take it! It's not coming out of the PM's pocket as some kind of additional reward that is only to be used when it's convenient for PM or Post Office!
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carrier789
Member
Our PM only allows leave slips 1 month in advance and we never get them back until 1-2 days before the days you request off even if there is a sub available!! We just filed a grievance this week everyone is fed up after a coworker that already booked flights & hotel had her leave slip held for over three weeks and then it was denied!
gerl2
Well-known member
I would be livid too. It is amazing how many issues that vary in every office could be fixed simply by our union visiting stations. I know our clerk union comes and visits their paying members to make sure all is well.
Travelingmailman
Well-known member
As an RCA, according to
Article 9.2.C.5.j , I need to grieve if denied a requested day off?
Regular has agreed to work his relief day in trade for Tuesday after holiday.
