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Manual on Disciplining

Diana_of_Themyscira

Diana_of_Themyscira

Well-known member
Pardon me if I worded it incorrectly - "Manual on Disciplining"; I remember reading about it before.
Could someone tell me where I could find such Manual in Knowledgebase or someplace?
Please and thanks.
 
or this:
first is supposed to be a letter of warning LOW.

second is supposed to be a 5 day suspension.

third is supposed to be a 10 day suspension.

fourth is supposed to be a notice of removal.
 
WONDERing WOMAN said:
Pardon me if I worded it incorrectly - "Manual on Disciplining"; I remember reading about it before.
Could someone tell me where I could find such Manual in Knowledgebase or someplace?
Please and thanks.
Click to expand...
Every craft contract is slightly different. I would suggest you read your nrlca contract for specifics to rurals - especially articles 15&16. Productive discipline should be as follows: formal discussion, letter of warning, 7day suspension, 14 day suspension, removal.
Emergency placement ( removal pending termination) can take place as a first step if mgmt deems the carrier a danger to others or the mails.
 
Sounds like you are referencing a management manual, like the ELM or postal publications addressing an issue. Look on the NRLCA website, under steward links, for some already settled arguments, etc. and the postal manuals from where the info or language was drawn. Once you get started poking around, you'll learn a lot...
 
HardearnedTan et al -- "Sounds like you are referencing a management manual, like the ELM or postal publications addressing an issue."

-- "vajoker's" posting of "650" and "665" are from the ELM.
 
vajoker said:
or this:
first is supposed to be a letter of warning LOW.

second is supposed to be a 5 day suspension.

third is supposed to be a 10 day suspension.

fourth is supposed to be a notice of removal.
Click to expand...

Sorry but WAY OFF.
1. is Official Discussion
2. is Letter Of Warning (LOW)- 1 yrpoô
3. is 7-Day Suspension- 2 yrs
4. is 14-Day Suspension- 2 yrs
5. is Removal

The Suspensions are on paper only & there is no loss of work. Depending on the severity, Mgmt can go straight to Removal.
ALWAYS Grieve any discipline received regardless of guilt or innocence. A decent Steward should be able to at the leastget the time-limit shortened.
 
Thanks for the inputs. I have been reading the materials you all gave me. It's a lot to digest, whew. But I'll keep reading them. Information is indeed power !

I have more questions :

Would Investigative Interview be classified as Official Discussion? And if so, is it grievable? Shouldn't there be informal discussion (verbal warning) prior? I was called in for an Investigative Interview for something I did NOT do and that the event happened when I was NOT working. Management failed to do even the BASIC requirement - check the details. A simple informal discussion with me could have corrected this error. But they skip that and proceeded with the I.I. right away. Is this grievable?

Also, what's the procedure about Investigative Interviews? Should the Carrier and the Steward be informed of what the I.I. is about prior? Or could Management just NOT tell us about it (or say something vague or very little about it) and we will just be surprised as to what the issues/allegations are?
Thank you, once again, for all your help. ?
 
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At every II your steward should be present. The manager should tell you and your syeward why the II is being requested . You are paid on a green card as an RCA and form 8127 for a regular. If your steward is a local steward he is "paid" in Z time. Carriers should always ask to be paid for these meetings. You should never even talk to your manager when he requests you to see him, unles your steward is present. The first thing you should say is, "Can this "discussion" lead to any discipline of any kind? If so I would like my union representation present". The meeting can not continue unless you have a steward present. If YOUR steward is not readily available, the meeting should be canceled.
 
Rt2mailman said:
At every II your steward should be present. The manager should tell you and your syeward why the II is being requested . You are paid on a green card as an RCA and form 8127 for a regular. If your steward is a local steward he is "paid" in Z time. Carriers should always ask to be paid for these meetings. You should never even talk to your manager when he requests you to see him, unles your steward is present. The first thing you should say is, "Can this "discussion" lead to any discipline of any kind? If so I would like my union representation present". The meeting can not continue unless you have a steward present. If YOUR steward is not readily available, the meeting should be canceled.
Click to expand...

The steward was present during the I.I. And yes, I will not be in any formal discussion with Management without the steward. I realize the value of that now. Oh, wait a minute, did you say "never even talk to the manager when he requests you to see him"? So, absolutely no conversation, albeit informal, about, say for instance a customer's complaints? If such could lead to discipline ... ?

Before, the Supervisors could come to us and tell us about a customer's complaint. Then they would ask us what our version of the story is. Then they give us advice or they talk to the customer again to clarify things out. Problems are then resolved, and errors rectified.

But that was before. That management method was corrective; this management method is punitive. IMHO
 
If your manager is being punitive and not corrective, then you need to contact your steward and file a grievance. If the way you describe your manager as above, yes every time they want to speak to you you ask the question: Is this or can this lead to discipline? If they say no, then they can't discipline you, let them talk. If they say yes, stop any such meeting until a steward is present.
 
gotstamps said:
Sorry but WAY OFF.
1. is Official Discussion
2. is Letter Of Warning (LOW)- 1 yrpoô
3. is 7-Day Suspension- 2 yrs
4. is 14-Day Suspension- 2 yrs
5. is Removal

The Suspensions are on paper only & there is no loss of work. Depending on the severity, Mgmt can go straight to Removal.
ALWAYS Grieve any discipline received regardless of guilt or innocence. A decent Steward should be able to at the leastget the time-limit shortened.
Click to expand...

7 day and 14 days I thought it is 1 year, city carriers are 2 years.
 
WONDERing WOMAN said:
Thanks for the inputs. I have been reading the materials you all gave me. It's a lot to digest, whew. But I'll keep reading them. Information is indeed power !

I have more questions :

Would Investigative Interview be classified as Official Discussion? And if so, is it grievable? Shouldn't there be informal discussion (verbal warning) prior? I was called in for an Investigative Interview for something I did NOT do and that the event happened when I was NOT working. Management failed to do even the BASIC requirement - check the details. A simple informal discussion with me could have corrected this error. But they skip that and proceeded with the I.I. right away. Is this grievable?

Also, what's the procedure about Investigative Interviews? Should the Carrier and the Steward be informed of what the I.I. is about prior? Or could Management just NOT tell us about it (or say something vague or very little about it) and we will just be surprised as to what the issues/allegations are?
Thank you, once again, for all your help. ?
Click to expand...

the investigative interview is not what you would potentially grieve--it would be the "discipline" (if any) that follows from the interview. And yes, the steward should have some info on what the interview is about prior to its start, and have a few minutes to confer with you before you enter the interview with mgmt. so you can be "counseled" about how to answer their questions.
 
The I.I. was anchored on management's claim that I am insubordinate (a very serious offense). They alleged that I failed to follow a directive on that day.
- I was NOT working that day and therefore it was not I who did it;
- There was a written directive (from a Supervisor) NOT to do the thing they wanted me to do.

The Management did not do due diligence in getting the facts.
Isn't this grievable?

Meanwhile, on a FB Group, I was reading a thread on FB about a CCA cussed by her Supervisor a few times. I don't think discipline was issued yet, just cussing and constant berating. Shouldn't this be grieved?

Thank you for all your help. ?
 
A less gullible me would believe you are safe. But a seasoned me says you most likely will get a 6 month discipline. Your steward will say if it goes to step2+, you might get stuck with 2 years on file.

Be prepared mentally for this scenario.
 
Here is another manual on discipline they use.
They can/will throw the book at you of anything and everything they can cite in their claim against you. Glad to read you are doing your own diligence regarding this
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