Formula
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MiddleOfNowhere
Well-known member
if you don't have seniority, before going formula, i'd run to the pm, and take monday as a relief day, by mutual agreement. you still get a two day weekend, and it's great to have a day where you can go shopping, go to restaurants, do business at places that are closed saturday, without the hassle of all the people trying to get stuff done on the normal weekend.
they fight to give monday as a relief day when going formula, but if you already have it, you may be able to keep it. if you don't like monday off, mutual agreement can be broken at any time, by either side, and you can go back to saturday, which you may be forced to work anyway. at this point, if offered saturday as relief again, i'd keep monday if possible...
they fight to give monday as a relief day when going formula, but if you already have it, you may be able to keep it. if you don't like monday off, mutual agreement can be broken at any time, by either side, and you can go back to saturday, which you may be forced to work anyway. at this point, if offered saturday as relief again, i'd keep monday if possible...
Windindaface
Well-known member
Here is link for Formula.... Formula office implementation
They must make every effort to hire before going formula.
The posting on line should be there at all times. Have you checked?
A few rounds of EDDM of this card for all offices in your mix.... Of course the pay needs to be updated now.
They must make every effort to hire before going formula.
The posting on line should be there at all times. Have you checked?
A few rounds of EDDM of this card for all offices in your mix.... Of course the pay needs to be updated now.
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BeatsAll-IEverSeen
Well-known member
No, you can’t. Volunteers can’t prevent the formula.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
Volunteers can prevent formula and I've seen it done in at least 2 offices. If carriers were willing to take various days of the week off until more Rca's could be hired there would be no need for initializing the formula into that office, because the carriers are already doing that by volunteering. If they were not to volunteer, it would be put into place and it would most effect lower seniority regulars. It is not easily removed once implemented, so volunteers from the lower senior regulars would be to their advantage.
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BeatsAll-IEverSeen
Well-known member
You’re talking about what’s possible, which I am not. Having a certain number of volunteers will not, contractually speaking, prevent the formula because there is no contractual provision that says volunteers can prevent it.
If having x number of volunteers incentivizes management to halt implementation then great.
But having x number will not force management to stop.
UnknownUser
Well-known member
They can't take a Monday away. They can take a Saturday away. I've been through it. I'm a junior carrier to the majority and landed a Monday k route recently. You can give it up, they can't take it. I was grandfathered into it. A lot of carriers were not happy.
MiddleOfNowhere
Well-known member
are you in a formula office? i'm pretty sure that the wording in the contract is that a mutually agreed non saturday relief day, can be switched to saturday if either party, wishes to change it.
UnknownUser
Well-known member
Yes, we are formula. I'm junior down in the 60s in a 75+ route umbrella. I will not be eligible for Saturday's for a while. I was grandfathered in because the relief day goes with the route when posting. I'm 1 of 4 routes that have Monday's. They aren't giving more out. The way the contract reads does not specify Monday relief days. They are only allowed to change Saturday relief days. For them to take away a Monday you must agree to their changes. Or have a big change in staffing for RCA's. If the original poster is offered a Monday, take it. They cannot change it, unless it's by mutual agreement. There are a few carriers that have Saturdays and some with other non Saturday relief days that were very upset about this when I, a junior carrier has a Monday k day relief day. I get 2 day weekends every week while many above me do not.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
There would no longer be a reason for implementation of the formula if there were volunteers on various days. If management still put it in place it could be stopped with a grievance for not being necessary/needed.
gotstamps
Well-known member
Actually... there is a way mgmt can take a weekday away. If there are more carriers on Relief Day on any given day than there are on Saturday, then mgmt must ask by senior & force by Junior to change Relief Days. So if Monday has 10 Relief Carriers & Saturday only has 9, mgmt is instructed to remove a Monday K & offer another day that won’t go over 9.
BeatsAll-IEverSeen
Well-known member
Of course there would still be a reason to implement it. Three to be exact. What does the step 4 say about the conditions for implementing the formula?
Does it say anywhere in the step 4 that if a certain threshold of volunteers is reached the formula shall not be implemented? No.
Does it say anywhere in the contract that if a certain threshold of volunteers is reached then the formula shall not be implemented? No.
Asking for volunteers prior to invoking is a requirement — not because it can be used to stop the formula but because it’s a requirement to allow people to volunteer off their Saturdays prior to invoking. If that requirement is ignored then yes you’ve got a violation. But what you don’t have is a violation of anything if a certain number of volunteers are met.
Again, if enough vols incentivizes management to halt the formula then great. But a grievance won’t make a difference because — again — there’s no contractual provision that says management must stop plans to invoke if a certain threshold is reached.
Morty
Well-known member
Something to add to the mix:
The regular before me "volunteered" Monday as his relief day to avoid going formula. When the route went up for bid, the relief day was Monday.
Y'all can hash that one out. All I know is when a nasty manager wanted to give us all weekday relief. They couldn't because we were already a formula office and switching days wasn't going to switch the situation of no subs. BUT we somehow believed we weren't formula, because the former regular "volunteered".
The regular before me "volunteered" Monday as his relief day to avoid going formula. When the route went up for bid, the relief day was Monday.
Y'all can hash that one out. All I know is when a nasty manager wanted to give us all weekday relief. They couldn't because we were already a formula office and switching days wasn't going to switch the situation of no subs. BUT we somehow believed we weren't formula, because the former regular "volunteered".
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
First off, volunteering to have "other than Saturday off" is not a formula office. There are certain things that MUST exist before a manager is able to implement the formula in any office.
1) Lack of Rca's
2) Inability to hire Rca's while many attempts were made.
3) Regulars working their relief days "On a more than infrequent basis "
If an office was to have regulars volunteer to work various days through out the week, no regular would be required to work their relief day. This would save the USPS $ and that would take away one of the reasons REQUIRED for formula implementation. Again as everything in the USPS, it's about $. If A manager ever puts the formula in place when the above criteria have not been met, it should be grieved as I stated above.
1) Lack of Rca's
2) Inability to hire Rca's while many attempts were made.
3) Regulars working their relief days "On a more than infrequent basis "
If an office was to have regulars volunteer to work various days through out the week, no regular would be required to work their relief day. This would save the USPS $ and that would take away one of the reasons REQUIRED for formula implementation. Again as everything in the USPS, it's about $. If A manager ever puts the formula in place when the above criteria have not been met, it should be grieved as I stated above.
BeatsAll-IEverSeen
Well-known member
Again, you're talking about something entirely different.
An office meets the criteria for invoking the formula -- meaning all three of the conditions you've cited above are met, thoroughly documented, etc. The PM decides to invoke. Volunteers are solicited per 9.2.C.5.d. The number of volunteers exceeds the number of non-Saturday relief days determined by the formula calculation. This development alone would not contractually force management to abandon implementation. They can still proceed. Having a surplus of non-Saturday volunteers once the formula has been invoked can't be used to stop the formula.
The reason is what I've already outlined above: the step 4 is controlling. If the office passes that criteria and decides to invoke, the purpose of soliciting volunteers is to "assist in reaching the required number of routes with relief days other than Saturday." (Article 9.2.d.(1). The act of soliciting volunteers isn't a procedural handbrake that stops the formula in its tracks. It's merely a step in the process.
If that step is violated -- meaning no volunteers were solicited as is required -- then by all means you've got a procedural violation and that should be exploited like any other. But if I'm a manager and I've passed the Step 4 criteria with flying colors, I'm not required to halt my plans and back off 6 months for my Step 4 justifications to evaporate. Be great if offices did that but they're not required to, contractually.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
After the formula is in place, volunteers won't stop it, but if before it is in place, carriers can stop it by volunteering and taking the need to place the office In the formula status away. Every office should try to avoid formula implementation because once in place it won't go away even if the office has a full compliment of Rca's unless the pm allows it to be stopped, and often upper management won't allow that to happen.
Windindaface
Well-known member
A somewhat off topic question.... What does happen to the PTF's if the formula is redacted?
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
Formula offices don't have to put a PTF in place even when they become a formula office. There are many without PTF's. Management likes rural carriers to fix all of the USPS problems FOR FREE, and a PTF costs the USPS $, in the form of benefits to the new career employee (PTF). Although I've heard of a PTF being placed in an office for a time without it being a formula office, most formula offices go hand-in-hand with a PTF.
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Voglio-il mio
Well-known member
I personally think that Mondays are just as good if not better than Saturdays. A weekday off to get
done as well as several three day weekends in a year!
