riffling question
- Thread starter RCA_Randy
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Aux4ever -- "What is your average riffling time per tray of DPS?"
-- It can vary.
-- Some offices will use actual time, if "blockers" are not used, per page 34 of the Mail Count Guide.
-- In some offices, my old one included, the carriers at the office pre-count meeting came to an agreement with manglement to use 10 or 15 seconds [ forget which one -- last count was in 2011 ] per DPS tray. At that time, we had letter sorting machines in the office on one side of the work floor -- away from most routes.
-- This came about because the counter would have to go to the letter machine area to time the carrier riffling through the DPS trays. This took the counter away from the other routes [ 4 to 6, depending on the number of routes and number of counters ] for too long. Other carriers in the counter's group would just have to wait their turn to get timed for riffling.
"Are we supposed to go through it slowly and weed out all the missorts, forwards, etc…?"
-- To use one of manglement's old favorite sayings: "It is what it is!" when riffling through the DPS trays. The more letters [ 3M, holds, forwards, inverted, etc ] one has to remove, the longer it will take. For the most part, you'll really want to look for out of sequence letters for your route.
-- It just may come down to a "everyone or no one" vote by the carriers to use a "standard" time or actual time.
-- It can vary.
-- Some offices will use actual time, if "blockers" are not used, per page 34 of the Mail Count Guide.
-- In some offices, my old one included, the carriers at the office pre-count meeting came to an agreement with manglement to use 10 or 15 seconds [ forget which one -- last count was in 2011 ] per DPS tray. At that time, we had letter sorting machines in the office on one side of the work floor -- away from most routes.
-- This came about because the counter would have to go to the letter machine area to time the carrier riffling through the DPS trays. This took the counter away from the other routes [ 4 to 6, depending on the number of routes and number of counters ] for too long. Other carriers in the counter's group would just have to wait their turn to get timed for riffling.
"Are we supposed to go through it slowly and weed out all the missorts, forwards, etc…?"
-- To use one of manglement's old favorite sayings: "It is what it is!" when riffling through the DPS trays. The more letters [ 3M, holds, forwards, inverted, etc ] one has to remove, the longer it will take. For the most part, you'll really want to look for out of sequence letters for your route.
-- It just may come down to a "everyone or no one" vote by the carriers to use a "standard" time or actual time.
D.B.Cooper
Active member
A lot of the peeps I see taking it straight to the street, riffle and rubber band hand fulls of DPS in preps to take it to the street... can the riffle allowance cover this entire time??? Anybody ever see this??? <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
D.B.Cooper et al -- "A lot of the peeps I see taking it straight to the street, riffle and rubber band hand fulls of DPS in preps to take it to the street… can the riffle allowance cover this entire time???"
-- I'm going go with rubber banding DPS won't be allowed while riffling trays of DPS --- unless one is VERY fast.
-- Riffling, I believe, is for checking for out of sequence letters ( lots of them ). Page 27 of the Mail Count Guide: Actual riffling time to <strong>access the quality</strong> of DPS mail, if separator cards are not used.
-- See other "Riffling" references on pages 17, 28, and 34 of the guide.
-- Telling the counter that you will be pulling out hold mail, 3M, inverted, forwards, etc might get you additional time -- but don't rely on it. However, the counter might not be as up to speed with the Mail Count Guide as you.
-- I'm going go with rubber banding DPS won't be allowed while riffling trays of DPS --- unless one is VERY fast.
-- Riffling, I believe, is for checking for out of sequence letters ( lots of them ). Page 27 of the Mail Count Guide: Actual riffling time to <strong>access the quality</strong> of DPS mail, if separator cards are not used.
-- See other "Riffling" references on pages 17, 28, and 34 of the guide.
-- Telling the counter that you will be pulling out hold mail, 3M, inverted, forwards, etc might get you additional time -- but don't rely on it. However, the counter might not be as up to speed with the Mail Count Guide as you.
D.B.Cooper
Active member
What about peeps who case their DPS... do they get any riffling time??? I mean, I'd argue my *actual* riffle time is over an hour or so, while casing... but, if peeps taking it straight to the street are getting 15 seconds per tray, then I think casing should get you at least that... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
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faceindawind
New member
Riffle time is an in office function. It is used to determine each tray is in reasonable order and is for your route. If one finds a chunk in their tray for their route miss placed the carrier gets time credit to move it to where it belongs.
15 seconds per tray is acceptable.
15 seconds per tray is acceptable.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Aux4ever said </strong>
What is your average riffling time per tray of DPS? Are we supposed to go through it slowly and weed out all the missorts, forwards, etc...? </blockquote>
Riffle time is actual time to remove a tray from the rack, check a spot in front, middle, and back section of each tray to see if in relative order & no obvious "section" of someone else's mail. Place the tray in your conveyance then pull the next tray and again check front, middle, & back. Time doesn't stop until the last tray has been checked & placed in the conveyance. If your DPS trays are in multiple locations, time to find the remaining trays is included.
There used to be a set time of 10 seconds per tray back a couple of contracts ago but then it changed to actual time. Some offices did not comply & just continued the old method. Riffling is NOT for pulling 3Ms or rejects nor for "rubberbanding".
What is your average riffling time per tray of DPS? Are we supposed to go through it slowly and weed out all the missorts, forwards, etc...? </blockquote>
Riffle time is actual time to remove a tray from the rack, check a spot in front, middle, and back section of each tray to see if in relative order & no obvious "section" of someone else's mail. Place the tray in your conveyance then pull the next tray and again check front, middle, & back. Time doesn't stop until the last tray has been checked & placed in the conveyance. If your DPS trays are in multiple locations, time to find the remaining trays is included.
There used to be a set time of 10 seconds per tray back a couple of contracts ago but then it changed to actual time. Some offices did not comply & just continued the old method. Riffling is NOT for pulling 3Ms or rejects nor for "rubberbanding".
We also shouldn't be using riffle time to pull out anything.
If you case, you do your 3Ms, fwds, holds and RTSs then.
If not, you bring all back in the afternoon.
EDIT: lol, stamps. Had this all typed up, got sidetracked and just hit submit when I came back. Didn't see your reply.
If you case, you do your 3Ms, fwds, holds and RTSs then.
If not, you bring all back in the afternoon.
EDIT: lol, stamps. Had this all typed up, got sidetracked and just hit submit when I came back. Didn't see your reply.
The clerks in our office plop the DPS trays on the floor by our case and some of the letters fly out. (Most of our clerks cannot bend down to gently place the mail on the floor). Some of the trays aren't even close to being full and when they're plopped on the floor, there's mail flying all over the place. Our DPS is just a mess sometimes. The idea of riffling seems almost funny to me.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>IndyRR said </strong>
The clerks in our office plop the DPS trays on the floor by our case and some of the letters fly out. (Most of our clerks cannot bend down to gently place the mail on the floor). Some of the trays aren't even close to being full and when they're plopped on the floor, there's mail flying all over the place. Our DPS is just a mess sometimes. The idea of riffling seems almost funny to me. </blockquote>
Makes "riffling" easier and your piece count of your 3 Ms will be a bonus! ?
The clerks in our office plop the DPS trays on the floor by our case and some of the letters fly out. (Most of our clerks cannot bend down to gently place the mail on the floor). Some of the trays aren't even close to being full and when they're plopped on the floor, there's mail flying all over the place. Our DPS is just a mess sometimes. The idea of riffling seems almost funny to me. </blockquote>
Makes "riffling" easier and your piece count of your 3 Ms will be a bonus! ?
No, our office does not get withdrawal time. We were told during our pre-count conference that riffling must now be done either as soon as we start work (if the dps is at our case), or as soon as the dps arrives at our case. If we do not "riffle" as soon as we get our letters, we are not allowed to claim later that we are missing large chunks of dps, or announce that we have dps for someone else's route. And that seems to happen more often than you'd like. We were told that the purpose of riffling is only to make sure that we have all our dps; I guess nobody cares that it is hanging out the sides of the tray, or laying on top of the tray, or plopped on the floor.
But somehow I expect that during count, the mail will arrive perfectly for two weeks.
But somehow I expect that during count, the mail will arrive perfectly for two weeks.
Our office has 1 route that takes dps to the street and get riffle time. the rest of us case it and get nothing. but if I get a tray of dps that isn't mine I will throw them all in the missorts pile to be counted as raw letters one handful at a time until someone figures it out. F management.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>FXDL2003 said </strong>
Our office has 1 route that takes dps to the street and get riffle time. the rest of us case it and get nothing. but if I get a tray of dps that isn't mine I will throw them all in the missorts pile to be counted as raw letters one handful at a time until someone figures it out. F management. </blockquote>
Everyone gets riffle time regardless of casing or not. It serves to make sure that the tray is your route & in order. File a dispute if your being denied. You can't file a grievance until it goes to the dispute resolution team & a decision is received back. You could contact your steward now if you've already had your pre-count conference with the PM. Otherwise, speak up during your precount... then contact your steward.
Our office has 1 route that takes dps to the street and get riffle time. the rest of us case it and get nothing. but if I get a tray of dps that isn't mine I will throw them all in the missorts pile to be counted as raw letters one handful at a time until someone figures it out. F management. </blockquote>
Everyone gets riffle time regardless of casing or not. It serves to make sure that the tray is your route & in order. File a dispute if your being denied. You can't file a grievance until it goes to the dispute resolution team & a decision is received back. You could contact your steward now if you've already had your pre-count conference with the PM. Otherwise, speak up during your precount... then contact your steward.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Aux01 said </strong>
where could one find continuous for riffling time ?? </blockquote>
Unfortunately, it is not spelled out with those words:
"Actual riffling time to assess the quality of DPS mail, if separator cards are not used".
The riffle time begins with the first tray in front of you, if brought to your case for you, or when you start to pull the first tray off the bread rack. Somehow the trays have to be removed from the rack so unless mgmt is going to line them up separately (not stacked), they must keep timing until the last tray is riffled (at case) or placed in the conveyance (u-cart for our office). If mgmt stops the clock for moving a tray to acquire the next tray, contact your steward if prior to count or file a dispute for the dispute resolution team.
where could one find continuous for riffling time ?? </blockquote>
Unfortunately, it is not spelled out with those words:
"Actual riffling time to assess the quality of DPS mail, if separator cards are not used".
The riffle time begins with the first tray in front of you, if brought to your case for you, or when you start to pull the first tray off the bread rack. Somehow the trays have to be removed from the rack so unless mgmt is going to line them up separately (not stacked), they must keep timing until the last tray is riffled (at case) or placed in the conveyance (u-cart for our office). If mgmt stops the clock for moving a tray to acquire the next tray, contact your steward if prior to count or file a dispute for the dispute resolution team.
IndyRR -- "But somehow I expect that during count, the mail will arrive perfectly for two weeks."
-- You will no doubt be hearing words like "perfect order", "pristine", "not a single error" and the like during the 2-weak count period.
-- Some carriers have posted of waiting 3 to 4 weeks after count or better yet, after the count results become effective, then dropping a request for a Formal DPS review for Quality. Kind of puts the pressure on since the carrier has recently had "perfect" DPS as proof it can be done. When the plant can't duplicate runs that were produced for count, your route may go up. And some times that may put a route in the true "overburdened" status, as in over 57:36 hours, leading to the route to be cut back to a K43. It falls under the "careful what you wish for" curse.
" We were told that the purpose of riffling is <strong>only</strong> to make sure that we have all our dps"
-- That is not entirely true.
-- Riffling is used to detect DPS letters out of sequence ( a sweeping error ). Page 17 of the Mail Count Guide.
-- Riffling is used to detect mail that does not belong to the route.
-- Riffling is used to check the first and last mail piece in the DPS tray to ensure continuity between trays.
-- Riffling is used to identify and handling errors associated with programs such as Unplanned Events and Mail History Tracking System ( MHTS ). Also page 17. Just for fun, ask manglement if they are familiar with the MHTS postal program. ( Don't be surprised if the "deer in the headlights" look appears )
-- Column 17 entry: Time to locate and retrieve errors associated with the Mail History Tracking System ( MHTS ) process. This is normally done during the riffling process. Page 28 of the mail guide.
-- Page 34 of the mail count guide as more info on MHTS: For routes that do not use breaker cards -- carrier chooses a few intervals in each DPS tray, then checks one or two mail pieces before moving along in the tray to provide assurance that DPS mail is in the proper sequence. During the riffling process, carrier will also retrieve any errors as identified by MHTS. Credit for this work is measured by ACTUAL TIME in seconds.
-- On the plus side, the MHTS process must be important to the USPS as it is mentioned 3 times in the mail count guide.
-- On the negative side, probably won't need it as error-free DPS mail is pretty much the norm during count.
-- Might as well play by the rules when riffling!
-- You should also get extra time if you have to do a "search and rescue" mission to get ALL of your DPS trays. Some times the DPS trays will not be together on the GPC ( general purpose container ) trays, thus requiring the search of multiple GPC's.
-- Additional time also if someone at the plant did not bother putting trays in the GPC's and just stacked DPS tray upon DPS tray. Carriers seemed to get a bit irritated when that happened.
-- Be sure to use your own timing device when on a DPS Search & Rescue mission -- just in case the counter pushes the wrong button.
-- Something one might want to bring up at the Pre-Count Conference / Meeting. Should the counters use actual stopwatches or is using a timer on a smart phone permissible?
-- You will no doubt be hearing words like "perfect order", "pristine", "not a single error" and the like during the 2-weak count period.
-- Some carriers have posted of waiting 3 to 4 weeks after count or better yet, after the count results become effective, then dropping a request for a Formal DPS review for Quality. Kind of puts the pressure on since the carrier has recently had "perfect" DPS as proof it can be done. When the plant can't duplicate runs that were produced for count, your route may go up. And some times that may put a route in the true "overburdened" status, as in over 57:36 hours, leading to the route to be cut back to a K43. It falls under the "careful what you wish for" curse.
" We were told that the purpose of riffling is <strong>only</strong> to make sure that we have all our dps"
-- That is not entirely true.
-- Riffling is used to detect DPS letters out of sequence ( a sweeping error ). Page 17 of the Mail Count Guide.
-- Riffling is used to detect mail that does not belong to the route.
-- Riffling is used to check the first and last mail piece in the DPS tray to ensure continuity between trays.
-- Riffling is used to identify and handling errors associated with programs such as Unplanned Events and Mail History Tracking System ( MHTS ). Also page 17. Just for fun, ask manglement if they are familiar with the MHTS postal program. ( Don't be surprised if the "deer in the headlights" look appears )
-- Column 17 entry: Time to locate and retrieve errors associated with the Mail History Tracking System ( MHTS ) process. This is normally done during the riffling process. Page 28 of the mail guide.
-- Page 34 of the mail count guide as more info on MHTS: For routes that do not use breaker cards -- carrier chooses a few intervals in each DPS tray, then checks one or two mail pieces before moving along in the tray to provide assurance that DPS mail is in the proper sequence. During the riffling process, carrier will also retrieve any errors as identified by MHTS. Credit for this work is measured by ACTUAL TIME in seconds.
-- On the plus side, the MHTS process must be important to the USPS as it is mentioned 3 times in the mail count guide.
-- On the negative side, probably won't need it as error-free DPS mail is pretty much the norm during count.
-- Might as well play by the rules when riffling!
-- You should also get extra time if you have to do a "search and rescue" mission to get ALL of your DPS trays. Some times the DPS trays will not be together on the GPC ( general purpose container ) trays, thus requiring the search of multiple GPC's.
-- Additional time also if someone at the plant did not bother putting trays in the GPC's and just stacked DPS tray upon DPS tray. Carriers seemed to get a bit irritated when that happened.
-- Be sure to use your own timing device when on a DPS Search & Rescue mission -- just in case the counter pushes the wrong button.
-- Something one might want to bring up at the Pre-Count Conference / Meeting. Should the counters use actual stopwatches or is using a timer on a smart phone permissible?
gotstamps
Well-known member
And this from pg 28:
"(26) If DPS letter mail trays are received in a conveyance, randomly mixed between routes, additional compensation may be appropriate. In instances where this occurs on a daily or weekly basis, the route will receive credit in Column 17 during a mail count, for the actual time required to move other routes' trays in order to locate the DPS letter mail trays for the specific route. Ref Step 4 E06R-4E-C09352269 Omaha, NE (87)"
This could be useful in explaining why the timing doesn't stop to move to the next tray.
"(26) If DPS letter mail trays are received in a conveyance, randomly mixed between routes, additional compensation may be appropriate. In instances where this occurs on a daily or weekly basis, the route will receive credit in Column 17 during a mail count, for the actual time required to move other routes' trays in order to locate the DPS letter mail trays for the specific route. Ref Step 4 E06R-4E-C09352269 Omaha, NE (87)"
This could be useful in explaining why the timing doesn't stop to move to the next tray.
