What’s Really Happening with UPS SurePost?

[ATCBigE]

#1. City Carrier Unofficial Moto "Move slow, make more dough"
#2. City Carriers are short on help too. They also work for a Toxic Employer

Yes the people negotiating the contract have the numbers. And they are required by statute to know what each item or service costs, and price it accordingly

Try to keep up. Prices on everything associated with delivery, - Gas, tires, oil etc. COST THE POST OFFICE MORE. So here's the tricky part, If delivery costs go up because of fuel, batteries tires parts etc. prices must go up. And if the negotiators who made the original last mile deals were conflicted or just honestly underestimated the actual cost to deliver last mile packages, THAT MUST BE CORRECTED, BY STATUTE, UNDER ANY NEW CONTRACTS. That is regardless of your feelings over what is fair or not.


So you like your personal free additional labor subsidizing UPS, I DON'T

I see your problem. It is a reading comprehension problem.
We lost 2.1 billion last fiscal year. With the drop in last mile delivery we posted a profit LAST QUARTER in the millions. we haven't had a yearly profit since last mile delivery started, except one year when Congress gave the USPS Billions. Without the influx of Billions the post office lost money every year.
Facts are stubborn things

Let's do this again.

If those prices are up, WHY DID I LOST 2K ON MILEAGE THIS YEAR compared to last according to USPS???????? They can't complain about the price of stuff til I get my EMA back up.

Answer this.

How much money does it cost USPS from UPS to drop off packages til carrier gets it take it to vehicle?????? ANSWER is $0 because clerks are already there to work. Right there alone tells you almost $8 bucks a package is highway robbery. Whoever is doing the math at $8 bucks a packages means RRECS is taking rural carrier to the cleaner because I guarantee most I get for package to a house is 2-3 bucks TOPS.

Also city carriers have to be in 8 hours or they are forced to take a lunch. So in a way UPS surepost depending on carrier won't really affect their pay either. Most don't want to have to take a lunch.

Biggest point too. UPS surepost ending isn't why we had a profit. The contract ended Dec 31. 1st fiscal quarter from Oct 31 to Dec 31. I was still getting surepost the whole time. So that fact is wrong.

Also numbers can and will lie. You just don't go from losing 2.1+ billions to somehow making 2.2 billions. There's a number game involved.


Let's look at more facts.
2025 fiscal year
1st quarter Profit 150 million SOMEHOW

2024 fiscal year
4th quarter Loss 2.5 billion
3rd quarter Loss 2.5 billion
2nd quarter Loss 1.5 billion
1st quarter Loss 2.1 billion

2023 fiscal year
4th quarter Loss 2.2 billion
3rd quarter Loss 1.7 billon
2nd quarter Loss 2.5 billion
1st quarter Loss 1.0 billion

NUMBERS LIE

 

[ATCBigE]

The 2.1 billion loss was for the same quarter last fiscal year.
This year we had less last mile deliveries from Fed Ex, UPS, and Amazon and we actually MAKE. NOT LOSE MONEY.
First class mail is down, Second Class is down so where does the turn around come from?
Can it be anything but the fact we have lest parcels that cost more to deliver than we earn?

What about all the land and building of S&DC places?????? The equipment for it and so on.

 

[hunchback]

Let's do this again.

If those prices are up, WHY DID I LOST 2K ON MILEAGE THIS YEAR compared to last according to USPS???????? They can't complain about the price of stuff til I get my EMA back up.

Answer this.

How much money does it cost USPS from UPS to drop off packages til carrier gets it take it to vehicle?????? ANSWER is $0 because clerks are already there to work. Right there alone tells you almost $8 bucks a package is highway robbery. Whoever is doing the math at $8 bucks a packages means RRECS is taking rural carrier to the cleaner because I guarantee most I get for package to a house is 2-3 bucks TOPS.

Also city carriers have to be in 8 hours or they are forced to take a lunch. So in a way UPS surepost depending on carrier won't really affect their pay either. Most don't want to have to take a lunch.

Biggest point too. UPS surepost ending isn't why we had a profit. The contract ended Dec 31. 1st fiscal quarter from Oct 31 to Dec 31. I was still getting surepost the whole time. So that fact is wrong.

Also numbers can and will lie. You just don't go from losing 2.1+ billions to somehow making 2.2 billions. There's a number game involved.


Let's look at more facts.
2025 fiscal year
1st quarter Profit 150 million SOMEHOW

2024 fiscal year
4th quarter Loss 2.5 billion
3rd quarter Loss 2.5 billion
2nd quarter Loss 1.5 billion
1st quarter Loss 2.1 billion

2023 fiscal year
4th quarter Loss 2.2 billion
3rd quarter Loss 1.7 billon
2nd quarter Loss 2.5 billion
1st quarter Loss 1.0 billion

NUMBERS LIE

So you think the post office, while in negotiations with all the unions, is inflating their earnings.
That would be the first time in my memory the post office pleaded anything but poverty during negotiations.

 

[Shannonboy]

The 2.1 billion loss was for the same quarter last fiscal year.
This year we had less last mile deliveries from Fed Ex, UPS, and Amazon and we actually MAKE. NOT LOSE MONEY.
First class mail is down, Second Class is down so where does the turn around come from?
Can it be anything but the fact we have lest parcels that cost more to deliver than we earn?

I've already said it....THEY ROBBED US THROUGH RREC'S....dont kid yourself. It's what happened in the last 5 years....its no coincidence either.

 

[Worve]

I've already said it....THEY ROBBED US THROUGH RREC'S....dont kid yourself. It's what happened in the last 5 years....its no coincidence either.

So what is your thought on counts before rrecs?

Don’t get me wrong plenty of issues with rrecs, but overall it is more accurate imo.

 

[ATCBigE]

So what is your thought on counts before rrecs?

Don’t get me wrong plenty of issues with rrecs, but overall it is more accurate imo.

Honestly I can't say if it is more accurate than previous.

The advantage of the old count was you had an idea of what you would be. Yes they cheated system by holding mail back but they are 100% cheating carriers with RRECS. I wonder how my DPS will look in 2 weeks compared to all upside down and missent I get. Oh don't get me started about raw letters either. Last 3 days of raw letters have been about 3 times what I am actually credit for on them.

My route has literally dried up to point where I get things twice a week and other days I just drive around. I will bet money I lose nearly another hour due to coverage factor again. All my coverage does is keep going down down down. I have never seen it like this ever. Flats show up whenever (usually Monday and either Thursday or Friday) but same with packages. Constantly having 100+ then next 2 days will be 15 and 40 then 125.

It's sad our union doesn't care about that stuff. I have lost 10% coverage and 16% on CBU since beginning of RRECS, but can't say that is right either.

 

[Worve]

Honestly I can't say if it is more accurate than previous.

The advantage of the old count was you had an idea of what you would be. Yes they cheated system by holding mail back but they are 100% cheating carriers with RRECS. I wonder how my DPS will look in 2 weeks compared to all upside down and missent I get. Oh don't get me started about raw letters either. Last 3 days of raw letters have been about 3 times what I am actually credit for on them.

My route has literally dried up to point where I get things twice a week and other days I just drive around. I will bet money I lose nearly another hour due to coverage factor again. All my coverage does is keep going down down down. I have never seen it like this ever. Flats show up whenever (usually Monday and either Thursday or Friday) but same with packages. Constantly having 100+ then next 2 days will be 15 and 40 then 125.

It's sad our union doesn't care about that stuff. I have lost 10% coverage and 16% on CBU since beginning of RRECS, but can't say that is right either.

We differ greatly on our opinions. Done the math on my route by old count standards. I would barely be a 46k vs well beyond 48k. Just using last mms results for paper mail, parcels, then adding new misc time and the new dismounts. I will hit 64 standard hours this upcoming mms.

I understand rrecs is not very favorable for light or extremely light parcel routes. It does not favor few dismounts or all cbu high rise routes. It has many flaws that really need to be looked into and fixed. That being said track your actual hours worked for a year then see what you got paid for hours wise. Don’t go off what you feel it should be at or past evals. For myself I am well under the 60 hrs a week that currently eval is at. It’s mixed feeling of feeling relieved I can do it under, but also disgusted that I can’t seem to match eval pay to hours worked.

 

[jsthere723]

Honestly I can't say if it is more accurate than previous.

The advantage of the old count was you had an idea of what you would be. Yes they cheated system by holding mail back but they are 100% cheating carriers with RRECS. I wonder how my DPS will look in 2 weeks compared to all upside down and missent I get. Oh don't get me started about raw letters either. Last 3 days of raw letters have been about 3 times what I am actually credit for on them.

My route has literally dried up to point where I get things twice a week and other days I just drive around. I will bet money I lose nearly another hour due to coverage factor again. All my coverage does is keep going down down down. I have never seen it like this ever. Flats show up whenever (usually Monday and either Thursday or Friday) but same with packages. Constantly having 100+ then next 2 days will be 15 and 40 then 125.

It's sad our union doesn't care about that stuff. I have lost 10% coverage and 16% on CBU since beginning of RRECS, but can't say that is right either.

Plant issue , not RRECS issue

 

[ATCBigE]

Plant issue , not RRECS issue

While I agree it is more a plant issue than RRECS, is it just not coincidence that "plant issue" started once RRECS came along. The mail use to be much more consist than it is all.

 

[jsthere723]

While I agree it is more a plant issue than RRECS, is it just not coincidence that "plant issue" started once RRECS came along. The mail use to be much more consist than it is all.

I don’t know . It would be nationwide if it were not coincidence . It is hard to believe they would design an evaluation system centering on one or two plant and handful of offices

 

[Shannonboy]

So what is your thought on counts before rrecs?

Don’t get me wrong plenty of issues with rrecs, but overall it is more accurate imo.

In my old office po mgmt just reacted when they got chewed out by higher ups....we got crapped on by union rep, no support, or knowledge on rrec's. In the end union rep told the whole office in a standup talk sponsored by pm that we f'ed ourselves by not doing our own research, and the scans accurately. He was the only route of 32 rts. that went up 2 hrs....it was a bloodbath first time, 2nd time even worse. 3rd time, about half dozen rts. stayed about the same....we all filed grievances, and contested the numbers, but most of us never could figure it out. After the second time, we lost about a dozen regs to medical leave, retirement, and a couple just quit....our office just gave up....I kept fighting for relief, and fairness, but all it did was make me a FREAKING huge target....and po mgmt made it their personal goal to ruin my life.....THEY FAILED...
It did cost me though....I'm still plugging along, but a little worse for wear, and a whole lot more knowledgeable about how EVIL the post office mgmt can be....
Shannonboy

 

[Shannonboy]

Honestly I can't say if it is more accurate than previous.

The advantage of the old count was you had an idea of what you would be. Yes they cheated system by holding mail back but they are 100% cheating carriers with RRECS. I wonder how my DPS will look in 2 weeks compared to all upside down and missent I get. Oh don't get me started about raw letters either. Last 3 days of raw letters have been about 3 times what I am actually credit for on them.

My route has literally dried up to point where I get things twice a week and other days I just drive around. I will bet money I lose nearly another hour due to coverage factor again. All my coverage does is keep going down down down. I have never seen it like this ever. Flats show up whenever (usually Monday and either Thursday or Friday) but same with packages. Constantly having 100+ then next 2 days will be 15 and 40 then 125.

It's sad our union doesn't care about that stuff. I have lost 10% coverage and 16% on CBU since beginning of RRECS, but can't say that is right either.

That's exactly what is happening in my office now.....1-2 horrible days, the rest nothing...