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Is there a forced 50 mile rule for RCAs or not?

Defiant

Defiant

Well-known member
My thread where this was directly asked appears to have been deleted. In it I was making the point that USPS contradicts itself by writing too many rules. Such as:

Screenshot (147).png

Somebody said this has been discussed in multiple threads before and it was VOLUNTARY. So, can RCA's be forced to work in offices up to 50 miles away or not? If not, where did that narrative get started? And why has that narrative been promoted here, if it doesn't exist?
 
Mark Oliver said:
My thread where this was directly asked appears to have been deleted. In it I was making the point that USPS contradicts itself by writing too many rules. Such as:

View attachment 4696

Somebody said this has been discussed in multiple threads before and it was VOLUNTARY. So, can RCA's be forced to work in offices up to 50 miles away or not? If not, where did that narrative get started? And why has that narrative been promoted here, if it doesn't exist?
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I suspect that “Volunteer“ was in a previous Contract & Order of Consideration. That word is no longer in those documents so it doesn’t seem to be voluntary. What you have posted still allows Subs to work in APOs & RMPOs along with Hub/Spoke office but only during the COVID MOU timeframe.
It’s a temporary rule fix to assist subs when being told to go to other offices outside of their APO/RMPO & haven’t worked there prior to COVID.

Some of my subs don’t mind helping out at ”new” locations just to get the work.
 
@Mark Oliver - you were directly asked by Ruralinfo Admin to edit the title of said post and you willfully refused and/or ignored the request.

that's why your thread was deleted.

and that's a shame, because there were some good comments.

at some point, you need to be more cooperative and less combative.

I am posting publicly because I have sent messages before to no avail.

Just clearing the air so no one thinks anything nefarious about the deleted thread aside.

thank you and everybody carry on.
 
Oi veh. said:
@Mark Oliver - you were directly asked by Ruralinfo Admin to edit the title of said post and you willfully refused and/or ignored the request.

that's why your thread was deleted.

and that's a shame, because there were some good comments.

at some point, you need to be more cooperative and less combative.

I am posting publicly because I have sent messages before to no avail.

Just clearing the air so no one thinks anything nefarious about the deleted thread aside.

thank you and everybody carry on.
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OK, cool. I never saw any request.

And I'm not combative, to clear the air on that. What I am is someone who doesn't worry about hurting someone's "feelings". I hate it when someone says "How does that make you feel?"

What should rule is "What do you think about this?" "What do you think about that?" That is how I talk and write.

Hope that helps understanding.
 
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The 50 mile rule is for when you get paid lodging etc if you have to travel beyond that. I think it’s generally accepted 50 miles in the most they will (try) to send an rca because of it.

this is personal experience when trying to fight mandate or a scheduled working at another office. It’s a PDI if I refuse to go and or don’t show up unless I call in sick that morning. On the other hand if they mandate and or schedule me at another office I have it in writing from all PM in surrounding towns. That they will pay me drive time mileage and cannot work me over 10 hrs not including drive time. I am still not happy about it but at least I get paid for everything and it makes me one of the last choices.

I do volunteer occasionally at specific offices near me that I like to work at when I need or want extra hours. But certain offices I refuse to volunteer hence the above I worked out and got in writing. Now even the ones I volunteer at tell me right away I get paid even volunteering everything. Sometimes talking to the management helps sometimes it does not.
 
Worve said:
The 50 mile rule is for when you get paid lodging etc if you have to travel beyond that. I think it’s generally accepted 50 miles in the most they will (try) to send an rca because of it.

this is personal experience when trying to fight mandate or a scheduled working at another office. It’s a PDI if I refuse to go and or don’t show up unless I call in sick that morning. On the other hand if they mandate and or schedule me at another office I have it in writing from all PM in surrounding towns. That they will pay me drive time mileage and cannot work me over 10 hrs not including drive time. I am still not happy about it but at least I get paid for everything and it makes me one of the last choices.

I do volunteer occasionally at specific offices near me that I like to work at when I need or want extra hours. But certain offices I refuse to volunteer hence the above I worked out and got in writing. Now even the ones I volunteer at tell me right away I get paid even volunteering everything. Sometimes talking to the management helps sometimes it does not.
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On what grounds? I just went through the whole contract, hard copy and online. I welcome anyone to show me where it says an RCA can be forced to work outside their office. Forget about the 50 miles. Where can you be forced to work outside your assigned office? MOU? Letters of Clarification? Where? I want to see the language.
 
Mark Oliver said:
On what grounds? I just went through the whole contract, hard copy and online. I welcome anyone to show me where it says an RCA can be forced to work outside their office. Forget about the 50 miles. Where can you be forced to work outside your assigned office? MOU? Letters of Clarification? Where? I want to see the language.
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If it’s scheduled it’s scheduled on those grounds would be my guess. I would still grieve it to be sure. I just found it easier to get paid for everything then deal with a grievance cause we all know how well those go. doing what I posted has kept me for the most part from Even having to worry about it.
 
I thought the NRLCA lost a grievance regarding this. Basically because the other USPS union members can be forced. Read this from Susan Knapp July 2021 issue.
" There are two situations where a leave
replacement can be required by management
to work in another office. The first situation
involves an emergency as outlined in Article 3.f
of the National Agreement. This language allows
management “to take whatever actions may be
necessary to carry-out its mission in emergency
situations; i.e., an unforeseen circumstance or
a combination of circumstances which calls for
immediate action in a situation which is not
expected to be of a recurring nature.” The
implementation of Article 3.f cannot violate
other terms of the National Agreement, state or
federal laws.
This language is typically enacted in situations
such as severe weather conditions or fires.
It could apply in a situation where there are
normally sufficient leave replacements in the
office and illness strikes a large group of the
current employees. It does not apply to foreseen
circumstances such as lack of coverage due to
failure to hire.
The second situation involves unavailability
of a leave replacement as outlined in Article
30.2.D.5. “The Employer may schedule a leave
replacement from another office before selecting
a regular carrier not on the relief day work list to
work in accordance with Article 8.5.A.2.”
This is a very specific situation and only applies
when all available relief carriers in the borrowing
office are working and the relief day work list
has been exhausted. This language can apply to
foreseen circumstances such as lack of coverage
due to failure to hire"
 
neciat said:
You can try this to help clarify any questions.
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This is it. Every RCA in leave replacement status needs to read the whole document @neciat attached in post #8. But check out this language. They admit it is not contractual to force an RCA in leave replacement status to work in another office, but to prevent it, they say NRLCA should negotiate it into the contract.

To me, that is a stalemate. RCA's in leave replacement status are not, under the contract, required to work in any other office, period.

Screenshot (152).png
 
Actually, that Step 4 says there is NO contractual language that PROHIBITS management from doing so. If the NRLCA wants to restrict distance, other offices, etc. , they need to do so in negotiations. It is / was only the POSITION of The NRLCA that RCAs may volunteer but not be required..............
 
Soooooo anyway, all you RCA's need to read this forced to another office nonsense carefully. It is a stalemate. Management can "direct" you but their is NO contractual obligation for you to do it. NRLCA and Management never negotiated final language, any language, into the contract.

This is one of those things where I'd disregard the advice that you should follow the order and grieve it later. Sorry, it isn't in the contract, therefore, it is an unlawful order.
 
Mark Oliver said:
Soooooo anyway, all you RCA's need to read this forced to another office nonsense carefully. It is a stalemate. Management can "direct" you but their is NO contractual obligation for you to do it. NRLCA and Management never negotiated final language, any language, into the contract.

This is one of those things where I'd disregard the advice that you should follow the order and grieve it later. Sorry, it isn't in the contract, therefore, it is an unlawful order.
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Sorry but IF a sub is directed to go to another Office that is not in your “APO/RMPO cluster” then you must go or that is insubordination & failure to follow orders. It is Disciplinary since it is not a contract violation.
The Union believes it should be Voluntary but has NO rights to tell the PO that they can’t mandate therefore not grievable. The discipline is always grievable but would likely only be lowered to lesser discipline or less time.
 
Dumbassclerksyndrome said:
I have to agree with ole Mark on this one!!!! This BS about do then grieve.... has anyone actually read Art 16 on discipline procedures. Discussion first!!! So if you don’t follow order they will have to “discuss “ with said defendant first. Come on folks. Start standing up!!!
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That only works once. Once mgmt has had a Discussion on ”not following orders”, attendance, etc. then that part of the Disciplinary track is complete.

Be careful when deciding to not follow orders because the tone of voice can be taken as hostile which could put a Carrier in an E.P. situation. I’ve seen too many Subs end up on EP because of their ”standing up to mgmt” & then they are out for a week or 2 without pay. They then have to file to get either reinstated and/or paid for that time. Although those cases are typically won & paid (month or more later), the sub still had to go without that pay for that time & wasn’t prepared to be without $$$$ to pay bills or buy groceries. Just saying to be cautious cause tempers tend to fly on both sides when refusing to work.
 
You gotta think outside the box.

Clerks and City carriers can bid anywhere. They aren't limited to home office. They also are required to work anywhere.

Are the wheels turning yet?

If you are required under other unions rules, then bidding should apply. Therefore a grievance should be filed that if you are forced/required to work another station unassigned to you. Then you are entitled to bid on any open route within that office including PTF. And I'd go further, any station you COULD be required to work at.

Let the union figure that one out.

They can't borrow in to prevent someone who is available from working their K day.

Or was leave approved when no rca was available. Thus forcing you in?

We're clerks or management utilized to carry the route?

And lastly, don't be attractive. You want the reputation that PMs say they'll never borrow that guy again!

This really sucks. I have an issue I'm working on. And I can see the union taking the same stance. Even when the language couldn't be more clear.
 
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