Seattle was canceled because state health order did not allow for large gatherings. Orlando was canceled because they fear the covid numbers there may cause a cdc transmission event bringing covid to relativity low impact areas. But, the cdc guidelines not withstanding, the NLRB has said they have had plenty of time to address election issues. They are required to this year.
What specific rule cancelled the 2021 National Convention?
- Thread starter Dominator
- Start date
Dominator
Well-known member
Having a convention and having an election are independent issues.
My focus is the reason behind the cancelled convention.
If the 2020 and 2021 conventions were cancelled due to a federal or state law, regulation or ordinance, it's understandable.
However, 'fear of a negative outcome' does not satisfy the necessary constitutional conditions to have cancelled the convention.
Certainly the National Board followed some material rule. I hope to find what rule that was.
Mostly @Dominator but for all...............Orlando is pretty big. If you are researching that locality's guidelines and whatnot, look into Orange, Osceola, and Seminole counties. They are the counties that make up the generalization of "Orlando" as a city. Within "Orlando" are some other cities like Kissimmee , St. Cloud, and quite a few more. Anyway, if the site was Rosen Shingle Creek then I'm pretty sure that is in Orange county. While Buddy Dyer was / is the Mayor of Orlando, Jerry Demings was / is the Mayor of Orange County. Jerry Demings from the get go on this covid stuff has been pretty strict. What we all either do know or can go back and read, is that we were informed that after consulting with State Boards that National decided to cancel, postpone, forgo The National Convention.
Dominator
Well-known member
Yeah, Rosen is in orange county. I checked the city site and found nothing to support, but the county site is a bit more work. I had to shut it down when I started falling asleep at the keyboard.
I'm sure the state site will be an even larger pond.
I'm not certain if consultation with the state boards was anything more than a political back door in case the delegates had issue with it, i.e., "It's not our fault, we only took the advice if the state boards!".
I'm not certain why consultation with the state board's was even a thing. I never knew National Board culture to ask for opinions unless they wanted a scapegoat or backdoor way if things ever went south.
Was that national/state board junket some kind of "special meeting"?
You mean like a meeting before the meeting if there EVEN was a meeting ?
Not according to our constitution, which states elections will be held during convention by delegates. Trust me, I called national, NLRB and DOL to see if they were in compliance by skipping elections. No government office wanted any entity of over 50 people to congregate. They didn't even let congress convene in person. Unfortunately, our by-laws did not allow a mailing ballot. Which should be the first thing addressed at a convention. As well as, a contract review body of average carriers - To keep the Union in touch with working souls.
Dominator
Well-known member
Elections are dependent on a convention; not the other way around.
Our constitution and our parliamentary authority distinctly separates "nominations and elections" from "conventions".
As an example, let's say we have a convention in 2022. During that convention, let's say a majority of the voting delegates who have been registered as in attendance, representing not less than 25 states, walk out of the meeting in protest right before the election of officers. At that time, the delegates would not have satisfied the constitutional quorum requirement. No official business could carry until the quorum was restored. We would still have a convention, but no election.
Naturally, on an issue that involves automatic wins for people getting paid 6-figures and benefits (some of which include paid room, board, and a hefty per diem), if I'm going to trust, I'm also going to want verification.
It should be as simple as "This conflicting federal/state law/regulation/ordinance is what halted our convention". Instead, all I've seen are emotionally-charged arguments of "what the experts say" and claims using unfalsifiable statistical data.
The constitutional requirement to halt a convention is clear. Whether that requirement was met, however, is not.
When you spoke with National, the DOL and the NLRB, did any of them cite the federal/state law/regulation/ordinance that granted the National Board authority to halt our convention?
Itstillfun
Well-known member
Insecure in their positions.
Dominator
Well-known member
But no federal/state law(s)/regulation(s)/ordinance(s)?
CDC guidance is only a suggestion.
If there were local health mandates, I'd love to read them if you recall what they were. Something more than "six feet apart" would be useful to the Board's position, if available.
(I don't presume you wrote them down or anything but a general idea where they could be found would be a big help)
Dominator
Well-known member
Accounting fraud and following CDC suggestions are two different horses. I understand the accounting employee had a negative employment history related to other fraud stuff, but that's a separate thread.
I don't know if the convention center was closed for business or not, but even if so, the convention center's choice to protect against potential litigation is third party news to the NRLCA. It doesn't negate NRLCA obligation to have an annual convention.
If the Board only followed a suggestion to avoid potential (not actual) investigation and potential (not actual) litigation, and that was the sole reason for the cancellation, they failed to satisfy the requirement poised through federal/state law(s)/regulation(s)/ordinance(s) and ultimately, unconstitutionally cancelled the National Convention.
Dominator
Well-known member
I know. If it matters, I certainly didn't take it that way. You're just as likely to get the full story as I.
Back in my doe-eyed days of unionism, a well-respected delegate pulled me off to the side and told me...
Dominator, you'll eventually learn that the Association treats the membership like a box of mushrooms. They bind them in a closet, keep 'em in the dark, and feed them nothing but
.I hope the convention cancellation wasn't a confirmation of this nugget of wisdom.
justacarrier
Well-known member
The thing is, this has long past! If you had a problem with it you had 30 days to file an appeal. Absent that you have no real reason to continue with this.
Sorry, I think this is the answer.I know. If it matters, I certainly didn't take it that way. You're just as likely to get the full story as I.
Back in my doe-eyed days of unionism, a well-respected delegate pulled me off to the side and told me...
Dominator, you'll eventually learn that the Association treats the membership like a box of mushrooms. They bind them in a closet, keep 'em in the dark, and feed them nothing but
I hope the convention cancellation wasn't a confirmation of this nugget of wisdom.
Dominator
Well-known member
I'm no keyboard warrior, but it's clear you also have no answer for the question this thread seeks to answer.
I'm not at all interested in your "30 days to file an appeal" argument. It's irrelevant to this thread.
What I am interested in is discovering the truth as to whether or not the National Board acted outside of its authority when it cancelled the 2021 National Convention. Indeed, that is the purpose of this thread; finding the rule the National Board relied upon, if any.
@justacarrier, if the "30 days" you mentioned has expired and "nothing" can be done about it, what does it matter if the truth is unsavory?
The worst case is that the National Board did something they shouldn't, and it went undetected or uncontested by 100,000+ people.
That's a unsettling thought within itself.
For what it's worth, I appreciate your loyalty to the Association. Realize though that metaphorically ordering me to "keep my head down and shut my mouth" will be ignored, every time.
I'm hoping to discover that isn't the case and the Board properly executed the trusteeship. If you're willing to aid me in that pursuit, please do. Absent that you have no real reason to continue with this.
Dominator
Well-known member
I hope not. Who knows though, maybe there's some obscure "special circumstance" rule.
The search continues!
Dominator
Well-known member
It does in the sense of discussing elections, but my focus is the propriety of cancelling the convention.
See if this helps you.
I'm trying to find the enforceable "federal or state law, regulation or ordinance", that caused the cancellation of the 2021 convention.
The election guidelines you graciously provided aids in determining what to do about elections after the convention was cancelled. This information wouldn't be necessary if we had a convention where an election was held.
I'd like to read what specific "federal or state law, regulation or ordinance" that gave the National Board grounds to cancel the convention in the first place.
justacarrier
Well-known member
Well just the FACTS again, the union officials did explain the reason. It was based on the safety and well being of the membership. Both the DOL and the NRLB had made statements on policy for ALL UNIONS in regards to meetings and the safety of the members.
Dominator
Well-known member
@justacarrier, you've made it clear you're somewhat confused how constitutional prerequisites work. Let me simplify.
Just as article XIII of the NRLCA National Constitution (our union's governing document) provides, the prerequisite to make a portion of the constitution inoperative is the existance of a provision which conflicts with federal or state law, regulation or ordinance. No amount of caps lock can amend this longstanding constitutional obligation.
Once there is a conflict between the constitution and any federal or state law, regulation or ordinance, that is when it would be perfectly acceptable to proceed as though the conflicting provision did not exist.
Your previous messages indicate you have no intent on citing any specific federal or state law, regulation or ordinance which would satisfy the Board's required prerequisite to cancel the 2021 National Convention. I suspect you will continue to reiterate red herrings and never actually respond to the purpose of this post; a citation of the specific rule. I hope you will prove my suspicions wrong.
"The safety and wellbeing of the membership" as a "reason" is subjective. A specifically cited rule is not. A specifically cited rule is all I'm asking for. My question is answered if one (or none) exists.
If you have something showing that DOL/NLRB statements on policy are (or are equivalent to) federal or state laws, regulations or ordinances, please provide your source.
The search continues!
