"window to cancel dues" calculator and form-fill PS Form 1188.

[Dominator]

I've seen, heard, and received many "how can I get out of the union" questions lately.

Below is a form-fill version of the form necessary (PS Form 1188) and instructions on who to contact if you need additional assistance to find your dues deduction anniversary date.

Below is also a calculator to determine your 20/10 day "window period" when the union is obligated to accept your demand to release you from dues witholding.

If you miss your "window period", you've got to wait another year before your opportunity to stop paying dues returns.

I understand that not everyone can financially afford that wait, or just aren't interested in continuing paying dues for whatever reason. No judgement here. It's your money that you spent your time to earn.

For reference, ELM §925 Cancellation of Dues Withholding Authorization, Section 925.122(b) are the rules rural craft employees must observe to sever dues witholding.

You should be able to view/download a copy of your original PS-Form 1187, Authorization for Deduction of Dues, from your eOPF through liteblue.usps.gov

Your anniversary date is stamped on the form in the shaded box seen below.

 

[Gotrope]

If I was going to do this, I would mail two certified 4 days apart. The reason is the paper mail is very unpredictable these days and you don’t want to miss your Intended window if that is your choice.
I hope people still find value in the union. But, it is their money.

 

[jaymacgthree]

I agree with Gotrope in that you want to ensure someone receives it. Since Certified is no longer accountable and isn't properly tracked I would suggest avoiding it all together and send forms Priority Mail with Signature Tracking. Yes it costs more but it is more precisely tracked and faster, with something that important I think people can see the value.

 

[neciat]

Well, I may have found some hope for some of those who wish to withdraw from the union. I found this and it appears that anyone who joined AFTER August of 2020 AND have been in for one year ( first year is irrevocable ) can get get out when they want.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2020-14717.pdf

 

[Dominator]

Well, I may have found some hope for some of those who wish to withdraw from the union. I found this and it appears that anyone who joined AFTER August of 2020 AND have been in for one year ( first year is irrevocable ) can get get out when they want.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2020-14717.pdf

The Federal Labor Relations Authority (FLRA) is the federal public sector counterpart to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), which governs labor relations between private sector employees and employers. While this document may assist members of unions governed under the FLRA, the NRLCA is governed under the NLRB.

 

[Dominator]

If I was going to do this, I would mail two certified 4 days apart. The reason is the paper mail is very unpredictable these days and you don’t want to miss your Intended window if that is your choice.
I hope people still find value in the union. But, it is their money.

On September 16th, I sent an internal appeal to the NRLCA for failing to provide me due process via a timely postmarked copy of the 2023 National Appeals Committee Report via Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested, 24 hours prior the National Delegates receipt of the report, as required by Article X.3 of their own constitution.

That piece mysteriously had hang time that rivaled Michael Jordan.



Point being, if you send multiple certified letters, perhaps one of them just might get there on time.

Unions are valuable when their agent's focus is on their intended purpose. Unfortunately, the NRLCA lost sight of this many, many moons ago.

Perhaps others have shared a more blissful experience though.

 

[Gotrope]

On September 16th, I sent an internal appeal to the NRLCA for failing to provide me due process via a timely postmarked copy of the 2023 National Appeals Committee Report via Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested, 24 hours prior the National Delegates receipt of the report, as required by Article X.3 of their own constitution.

That piece mysteriously had hang time that rivaled Michael Jordan.

View attachment 12446

Point being, if you send multiple certified letters, perhaps one of them just might get there on time.

Union's are valuable when their agent's focus is on their intended purpose. Unfortunately, the NRLCA lost sight of this many, many moons ago.

Perhaps others have shared a more blissful experience though.

That's pretty bad. Sounds like it was dropped in empty equipment. But, I have noticed a big difference in transportation delays for mail, too. I sent email copies of everything. I had to send some business papers to a company not long ago. It also took almost a month for certified mail to those Companies.
I wrote to pmg and each board of governor and asked, " does this look like the service is improving?" I sent documents tracking numbers.

 

[neciat]

The Federal Labor Relations Authority (FLRA) is the federal public sector counterpart to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), which governs labor relations between private sector employees and employers. While this document may assist members of unions governed under the FLRA, the NRLCA is governed under the NLRB.

Thanks for explaining / clearing this up. But, it got me to thinking................................how is it that arbitrators have used words to the effect " commensurate with private industry" when it comes to wages. So, private is good enough to be used against us but not good enough now ?

On September 16th, I sent an internal appeal to the NRLCA for failing to provide me due process via a timely postmarked copy of the 2023 National Appeals Committee Report via Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested, 24 hours prior the National Delegates receipt of the report, as required by Article X.3 of their own constitution.

That piece mysteriously had hang time that rivaled Michael Jordan.

Do you not find it ironic that a timeliness appeal was itself a victim of timeliness ?

 

[Dominator]

Thanks for explaining / clearing this up. But, it got me to thinking................................how is it that arbitrators have used words to the effect " commensurate with private industry" when it comes to wages. So, private is good enough to be used against us but not good enough now ?

I can almost hear the call to "DONATE TO PAC TODAY!!!"

Do you not find it ironic that a timeliness appeal was itself a victim of timeliness ?

Despite the irony, the Board's response wasn't surprising. It amounted to them telling me they weren't required to follow their constitution, but even if they violated rules they were obligated to follow, their decision to cancel my right to object overrode considering the validity of my complaints. Despite their so-called "facts", the Board went 'out of their way' to consider my complaints, and yet again determined I was wrong in everything and they were correct in everything... Imagine that.

Ahhh... gaslighting at its finest.

 

[Dominator]

That's pretty bad. Sounds like it was dropped in empty equipment. But, I have noticed a big difference in transportation delays for mail, too. I sent email copies of everything. I had to send some business papers to a company not long ago. It also took almost a month for certified mail to those Companies.
I wrote to pmg and each board of governor and asked, " does this look like the service is improving?" I sent documents tracking numbers.

Who knows with that bunch. Maybe it was dropped in empty equipment as you suggest, but maybe not. I don't trust a majority of them.

I had an internal appeal years ago with the union involving improper election practices that, after the certified mail was delivered to the National Office, it mysteriously went "missing". The National Board told me my appeal was untimely when it wasn't. They simply just failed to keep records as required under Article V.2.C.2.

If I recall correctly, they "found" my appeal one day past the deadline for filing NLRB charges, then suspended the constitution and "restarted" the appeals process as though due process and proper record keeping weren't an obligation.

As far as "service improvement", running certified mail through DPS was a curious decision. I don't know how many managers have preached that "service is in our name" as an unsupported premise to whatever the flavor of the week rule happens to be. Anyhow, did the PMG or any Governor yet respond?

 

[Gotrope]

Who knows with that bunch. Maybe it was dropped in empty equipment as you suggest, but maybe not. I don't trust a majority of them.

I had an internal appeal years ago with the union involving improper election practices that, after the certified mail was delivered to the National Office, it mysteriously went "missing". The National Board told me my appeal was untimely when it wasn't. They simply just failed to keep records as required under Article V.2.C.2.

If I recall correctly, they "found" my appeal one day past the deadline for filing NLRB charges, then suspended the constitution and "restarted" the appeals process as though due process and proper record keeping weren't an obligation.

As far as "service improvement", running certified mail through DPS was a curious decision. I don't know how many managers have preached that "service is in our name" as an unsupported premise to whatever the flavor of the week rule happens to be. Anyhow, did the PMG or any Governor yet respond?

Yes, I received responses from both Ms McReynolds and Mr Martinez. Martinez was a form response, McReynolds was asking additional info on my experience and frequency of my mailings.

 

[Morty]

Why not send it express? It's cheaper than 1 pp of dues.

 

[Dominator]

Why not send it express? It's cheaper than 1 pp of dues.

According to article X.3 of the National Constitution, all appeals correspondence is supposed to be sent certified mail, return receipt requested to be valid, and timeliness is determined by postmark.

If you're the Association though, apparently you can totally disregard this longstanding constitutional rule and send any way you want... or not at all! Doesn't have to be certified. Doesn't have to have a return receipt. Doesn't even have to have a postmark. Hell... doesn't even have to be delivered to you personally or in a mailbox.

 

[Ddybearpa]

And what if your 1187 is not in your OPF? If they can not produce it, can I get all my money back?

 

[Dominator]

And what if your 1187 is not in your OPF? If they can not produce it, can I get all my money back?

Try contacting HRSSC directly at 877-477-3273. Ask them to mail the information to you regarding your 1187 and anniversary date. They'll send you a letter that has the instructions nicely laid out.

As to an absence of an 1187 in your eOPF, that doesn't necessarily indicate you never had one. It only indicates that no record of one has been uploaded. This could mean you never had one, but it doesn't guarantee that you didn't.

If the union has fraudulently represented that you agreed to grant them dues witholding rights, then you'd likely have to take the NRLCA to court to recover the damages.

In my personal experience, the NRLCA notoriously rejects even the most obvious counter-evidence to their positions. Such a bigoted mindset makes dialog with them such a pointless waste of time and resources.

Good luck!

 

[blue_goose1348]

Dominator​

In my personal experience, the NRLCA notoriously rejects even the most obvious counter-evidence to their positions. Such a bigoted mindset makes dialog with them such a pointless waste of time and resources.

Your appeal was brought forth at a National convention with full discussion from both sides. The members assembled determined by majority vote that the appeal had no merit and voted against said appeal. Get over it and accept the decision of the voting members.
I was at that convention and voted to deny your appeal.

 

[Dominator]

Your appeal was brought forth at a National convention with full discussion from both sides. The members assembled determined by majority vote that the appeal had no merit and voted against said appeal. Get over it and accept the decision of the voting members.
I was at that convention and voted to deny your appeal.

While I fully support a member's decision to vote and speak in debate, the seemingly apparent ignorance of you and countless others compelled a vote to willingly surrender your sovereignty.

Your National Board and/or its agents violated nearly every provision in your constitution's appeals article, not to mention the libelous/slanderous and slanted appeals report they passed out to their delegates with more strawmen in it than Nebraska. Then there's the whole "don't call on me while I'm standing at the microphone" trick. (They pulled that same nonsense on Pickleseimer so often).

I sense you don't understand or realize your dues witholding agreement is, in part, an agreement with the Association that its trustees (i.e., the National Board and other various agents) will uphold its constitution/contract in exchange for those dues payments.

When your appeals process is a sham (which it has been made clear to me), then your constitution/contract with the Association becomes unenforceable, and an unenforceable agreement is worth less than the paper on which it is written.

While I can almost feel your pride beaming through your closing sentence, willful ignorance of your union's delegation has seemingly granted license to its overlords to suspend any part of its constitution through (what I trust they will argue as) "implied permissions", at will, and constitutional unenforceability only perpetuates that license.

So yeah, the voting delegates 'showed me' their interests, and it certainly isn't the best interest of the members who put them there... unless "funding the club of unenforceable agreements" is their best interest.

What was once my dues payments now pump up my TSP. My checkbook finds that outcome more than acceptable for years and years to come!

Regardless of any appeal or its outcome though, if members didn't want to sever ties with the union, they wouldn't be searching for 1188's on a website that the NRLCA despises, right?

Best of luck to you, @blue_goose1348 , maybe you'll be the one who someday wakes up your organization. If you feel you're getting your dues worth, by all means, keep paying, and keep agreeing.

Fun Fact: There is no constitutional requirement that any National Officer or any National Delegate must actually read the union's consitution, in whole or in part, before or after election into office.

Wisdom of the crowd, huh?

 

[oi veh.]

Dominator​

In my personal experience, the NRLCA notoriously rejects even the most obvious counter-evidence to their positions. Such a bigoted mindset makes dialog with them such a pointless waste of time and resources.

Your appeal was brought forth at a National convention with full discussion from both sides. The members assembled determined by majority vote that the appeal had no merit and voted against said appeal. Get over it and accept the decision of the voting members.
I was at that convention and voted to deny your appeal.

i was at that convention and the one prior and voted to accept the appeal.

full discussion my left foot. there was a bunch of discussion against dom. i was standing at the mic as a yes and they shut down discussion.

you only know what you see. and if you ever really pay attention at conventions, you will see more lemmings than leaders.

 

[blue_goose1348]

While I fully support a member's decision to vote and speak in debate, the seemingly apparent ignorance of you and countless others compelled a vote to willingly surrender your sovereignty.

Your National Board and/or its agents violated nearly every provision in your constitution's appeals article, not to mention the libelous/slanderous and slanted appeals report they passed out to their delegates with more strawmen in it than Nebraska. Then there's the whole "don't call on me while I'm standing at the microphone" trick. (They pulled that same nonsense on Pickleseimer so often).

I sense you don't understand or realize your dues witholding agreement is, in part, an agreement with the Association that its trustees (i.e., the National Board and other various agents) will uphold its constitution/contract in exchange for those dues payments.

When your appeals process is a sham (which it has been made clear to me), then your constitution/contract with the Association becomes unenforceable, and an unenforceable agreement is worth less than the paper on which it is written.

While I can almost feel your pride beaming through your closing sentence, willful ignorance of your union's delegation has seemingly granted license to its overlords to suspend any part of its constitution through (what I trust they will argue as) "implied permissions", at will, and constitutional unenforceability only perpetuates that license.

So yeah, the voting delegates 'showed me' their interests, and it certainly isn't the best interest of the members who put them there... unless "funding the club of unenforceable agreements" is their best interest.

What was once my dues payments now pump up my TSP. My checkbook finds that outcome more than acceptable for years and years to come!

Regardless of any appeal or its outcome though, if members didn't want to sever ties with the union, they wouldn't be searching for 1188's on a website that the NRLCA despises, right?

Best of luck to you, @blue_goose1348 , maybe you'll be the one who someday wakes up your organization. If you feel you're getting your dues worth, by all means, keep paying, and keep agreeing.

Fun Fact: There is no constitutional requirement that any National Officer or any National Delegate must actually read the union's consitution, in whole or in part, before or after election into office.

Wisdom of the crowd, huh?

View attachment 14670

Your entire response supports my statement.

i was at that convention and the one prior and voted to accept the appeal.

full discussion my left foot. there was a bunch of discussion against dom. i was standing at the mic as a yes and they shut down discussion.

you only know what you see. and if you ever really pay attention at conventions, you will see more lemmings than leaders.

Discussion was shut down due to time limits expired. Motion to extend failed by a vote of the delegates present.

 

[oi veh.]

Your entire response supports my statement.

Discussion was shut down due to time limits expired. Motion to extend failed by a vote of the delegates present.

i beg to differ.

it's water under the bridge now, but dom has a right to feel bitter and to shed light.

the things i have witnessed at conventions by merely observing as a somewhat invisible person boggle my mind.