What would you like to see change in the new contract?

[vmlb]

1, pay actual time
2, anything over 8 hrs./day pay 1.5x, over 50/wk. 2x
3. eliminate X days, make them AL days instead
4. RCAs with most seniority get first shot at open jobs (I was an rca for 24 years before I could get a carrier status)
5. retirement does not require 5 years of full time status
6. stop scans like, stamp stock sales, loading, unscanable parcels, etc. (not needed if change 1 is implemented)

 

[U caught my attention]

@Gotrope
I received a nothing burger recently. I had a personal moment of silence on payday to mourn my zero tsp contribution; quietly acknowledging my anger and letting it pass over me.
Young supervisor acting all apathetic " no worries, you will still get paid" I explained there is no real way to make an employee whole from the lack of tsp contribution. Luckily, there was only a two paycheck lapse in getting it corrected. I was able to up my contribution to try and play catch up with the tsp.

 

[ATCBigE]

1, pay actual time
2, anything over 8 hrs./day pay 1.5x, over 50/wk. 2x
3. eliminate X days, make them AL days instead
4. RCAs with most seniority get first shot at open jobs (I was an rca for 24 years before I could get a carrier status)
5. retirement does not require 5 years of full time status
6. stop scans like, stamp stock sales, loading, unscanable parcels, etc. (not needed if change 1 is implemented)

I don't mind if they keep X days, but get rid of the stupid 12 week rule with it. That's just beyond stupid when you can't keep help or you have a district and PM like mine that is 100% by the book on stuff like this. Just like when PM tells office that calls about RCA wanting hours and tells them no. I am maxed out on X days what the !$#@$???

 

[Unclewolverine]

Defining the incentive.
A uniform method to sort and carry the mail that is agreed upon between both parties. It's the wild west out here how carriers are performing the job. Some are leaving out tasks important to the collection of volume at the detriment of the evaluation. This hurts the craft as a whole. Most folks are self serving in their actions and can't grasp or don't care how it affects the craft as a whole.

No. The flexibility of being able to carry your route how you want, (and tailor it to your load that day,) is important. Remember that our routes have considerably more variation across them than city does. Not to mention variation in methods of transport.

 

[Unclewolverine]

I think the USPS should supply a government vehicle for every route and have back-ups. Since we as the union would have to give up something for something that would help us. We all have to take our DPS to the street and not mark parcels like city carriers.

Many like their povs, and government vehicles are not feasible to many of us in fly over states. We only have street parking at every po in the county here, and the one repair shop definitely would not work on postal vehicles.

 

[stillfirstclass]

Defining the incentive.
A uniform method to sort and carry the mail that is agreed upon between both parties. It's the wild west out here how carriers are performing the job. Some are leaving out tasks important to the collection of volume at the detriment of the evaluation. This hurts the craft as a whole. Most folks are self serving in their actions and can't grasp or don't care how it affects the craft as a whole.

what would help is making management make the carriers "properly" do the job description already in the books,

 

[Unclewolverine]

what would help is making management make the carriers "properly" do the job description already in the books,

That would go a long way! The hate I got when I took over my route was astounding because I do things by the book, and the previous regular didn't. Luckily my pm backed me up.

 

[jordanjssr]

All -- "What would like to see change in the new contract?"

-- A contract that has been ratified by the membership and ready to be implemented on the day after the current contract expires.

- National officers have to return to their old rural route for a week to observe how their "negotiating" skills have affected the current carrier under the new contract.

-- Some firm other than Peer, Gan & Gisler as legal reps

-- Escalating financial penalties when 120-Letters expire and no one has been hired.

-- Escalading financial penalties whenever manglement violates the contract.

It amazes me how union in our area fighting over things that happen with other crafts end up with. They will try to be better managers. Clerk craft splits in office >$10,000 with escalating penalties when violated. You should see management JUMP when the clerks speak.

 

[U caught my attention]

I just realized what they want.
They want us to actually work the average standard hours they pay us for.
They want the mail volume to dictate our daily end time.
They don't want us performing smarter and faster
The incentive, to them, isn't ours at all.
The incentive, to them, is a means to decrease our standard times.

Wow! Sorry if I am late to the game.
I guess I have been naive.

They are using our efficiencies against us in contract negotiations. Making us do way more for way less.
I realize why hourly is the only way to go. How in the world will I ever get an hourly resolution passed at state convention?


Every time I mention going hourly to my coworkers they basically tell me to shut up.
Although, they won't be the ones at convention. I have to entice the retirees
Things are so messed up it's ridiculous.

 

[U caught my attention]

Wouldn't going hourly essentially abolish the two tier evaluated pay system?
We could all merge into one hourly pay scale.

 

[U caught my attention]

Am I understanding this correctly?
Let's say we pass a resolution for hourly at National Convention. It is still non binding, so the PO would have to agree to it in negotiations. It would likely go to arbitration. Why would the transition go smoothly? Would the arbitrator look to the private sector for hourly comparables?

 

[Gotrope]

I just realized what they want.
They want us to actually work the average standard hours they pay us for.
They want the mail volume to dictate our daily end time.
They don't want us performing smarter and faster
The incentive, to them, isn't ours at all.
The incentive, to them, is a means to decrease our standard times.

Wow! Sorry if I am late to the game.
I guess I have been naive.

They are using our efficiencies against us in contract negotiations. Making us do way more for way less.
I realize why hourly is the only way to go. How in the world will I ever get an hourly resolution passed at state convention?


Every time I mention going hourly to my coworkers they basically tell me to shut up.
Although, they won't be the ones at convention. I have to entice the retirees
Things are so messed up it's ridiculous.

Yes, you are beginning to understand. The other part of the equation is rurals who don't exactly perform to standards and cut corners. Both make negotiation gains improbable.
The best part is people who haven't worked a route for years are telling you the system is still as they remember it and an advantage. In my opinion, it hasn't been an advantage to rurals since 2016. Overall, it has more negative impact than positive across all routes. Yes, they are some who still work under evaluation. But, if you think like nalc... Those overburdened routes could have been craft growth by increasing routes and members. Rurals need to start looking at national numbers and not their own route numbers. USPS loves rurals because the system is set up in many ways to deny wage.

Hopefully, more people are enlightened.

 

[thutchings]

IMO..The only thing that would make a big difference is to have the ability to strike..With the ultimate weapon removed from a union it has little power to implement change..

 

[DohnJalton]

Both make negotiation gains improbable.

Rural Carriers being good at their job makes gains improbable, because the NRLCA is a joke.
If all postal employees were as good as rural carriers are expected to be, the post office would be the most efficient company in the country.

 

[vmlb]

RCAs get matching tsp like full time carriers. Optional.

 

[Gotrope]

Rural Carriers being good at their job makes gains improbable, because the NRLCA is a joke.
If all postal employees were as good as rural carriers are expected to be, the post office would be the most efficient company in the country.

Rural carriers lying about attendance times, skipping duties and running stops isn't efficient. It's craft suicide.
I would love to see some of the responses to requesting additional compensation for employes whose work can't be proven by the data. That is all arbitrators look at - data.
And yet, those same employees are the loudest in complaining against the nrlca lack of progress.
As a whole, too many rurals looking out for themselves are screwing the craft. I wish more had the opportunity to see negotiations up front and in person to see the facts presented. Official timekeeping data is more manipulated by rurals than mgnt for the most part.

 

[DB.Cooper]

Rural carriers lying about attendance times, skipping duties and running stops isn't efficient. It's craft suicide.
I would love to see some of the responses to requesting additional compensation for employes whose work can't be proven by the data. That is all arbitrators look at - data.
And yet, those same employees are the loudest in complaining against the nrlca lack of progress.
As a whole, too many rurals looking out for themselves are screwing the craft. I wish more had the opportunity to see negotiations up front and in person to see the facts presented. Official timekeeping data is more manipulated by rurals than mgnt for the most part.

The system we work under is set up to encourage this kind of behavior.... I can easily list those out, but you know what they are.... people will always do things that will benefit them, so if claiming stuff to stay under eval benefits them, that's what they do.... the system is designed to promote this, and it doesn't have to be this way.... but as long as there are benefits to doing things certain ways, then that's what peeps will do.... it's just human nature and the peeps setting the rules know this.... it's not set up the way it is by accident.... if the NRLCA were really being effective, we wouldn't be working under a system that effectively screws us in the long term for short term benefits designed in to the system for that purpose....

 

[Gotrope]

The system we work under is set up to encourage this kind of behavior.... I can easily list those out, but you know what they are.... people will always do things that will benefit them, so if claiming stuff to stay under eval benefits them, that's what they do.... the system is designed to promote this, and it doesn't have to be this way.... but as long as there are benefits to doing things certain ways, then that's what peeps will do.... it's just human nature and the peeps setting the rules know this.... it's not set up the way it is by accident.... if the NRLCA were really being effective, we wouldn't be working under a system that effectively screws us in the long term for short term benefits designed in to the system for that purpose....

I agree, human nature is what it is. Did you know the history of the evaluated system was based upon pretty consistent mail flow from 1962? The original carriers back in 1896 were given a supplemental income for miscellaneous delivery at $300 per year. It was set up this way because it was not intended to take more than 3 hours a day to perform the work. Originally, farmers went to town and then collected their mail and homesteads around them. They would deliver in the return to home.
Unfortunately, this history has always come back as rurals being incidental to operations and not of time intensive value.


The system needs to be retired. It's is no longer credible, nor representable, in modern times.
The higher the density of delivery , the more system fails due to shortcomings of human behavior.
It truly is time for hourly. Until more carriers take a hard, honest look at the system and it's failures - USPS will continue to eviscerate the craft. Just because something has always been one way doesn't mean it should not change or be entirely reinvented. Rrecs was an abysmal failure due to union not verifying the info presented. They trusted the engineers without 3rd party verification. They trusted incredibly faulty data from USPS, given to engineers to create standards without challenging the basic math.
I really hope everyone refuses to vote for another retired carrier as a delegate. I REALLY hope members start demanding turn over in long held positions. This union will never improve without voting in new blood. Longterm, set in their view people need to move on. The union has really fallen hard after nss was implemented. Comfortable positions create complacent, risk adverse workers.
Members will never receive better representation or protections without a serious turnover in viewpoint in long held union positions.
Try voting only for names you don't recognize in your next state delegate ballot.

 

[DB.Cooper]

I agree, human nature is what it is. Did you know the history of the evaluated system was based upon pretty consistent mail flow from 1962? The original carriers back in 1896 were given a supplemental income for miscellaneous delivery at $300 per year. It was set up this way because it was not intended to take more than 3 hours a day to perform the work. Originally, farmers went to town and then collected their mail and homesteads around them. They would deliver in the return to home.
Unfortunately, this history has always come back as rurals being incidental to operations and not of time intensive value.


The system needs to be retired. It's is no longer credible, nor representable, in modern times.
The higher the density of delivery , the more system fails due to shortcomings of human behavior.
It truly is time for hourly. Until more carriers take a hard, honest look at the system and it's failures - USPS will continue to eviscerate the craft. Just because something has always been one way doesn't mean it should not change or be entirely reinvented. Rrecs was an abysmal failure due to union not verifying the info presented. They trusted the engineers without 3rd party verification. They trusted incredibly faulty data from USPS, given to engineers to create standards without challenging the basic math.
I really hope everyone refuses to vote for another retired carrier as a delegate. I REALLY hope members start demanding turn over in long held positions. This union will never improve without voting in new blood. Longterm, set in their view people need to move on. The union has really fallen hard after nss was implemented. Comfortable positions create complacent, risk adverse workers.
Members will never receive better representation or protections without a serious turnover in viewpoint in long held union positions.
Try voting only for names you don't recognize in your next state delegate ballot.

I've just heard forever how individual carriers working off the clock and such are screwing us over for the long haul.... but even in recognizing this fact, nothing has been EFFECTIVELY done to prevent it.... just blaming individual carriers has not solved the problem, it's just making excuses for it... an effective union would come up with more than blaming members or pointing fingers.... they would figure out how to solve long-standing problems.... jmho....

 

[U caught my attention]

This is just my take on what is happening because of responses in this thread. Included how I think it can be fixed.

The system is supposed to be set up to be a fair assessment of time to money ratio.
We as a craft then take what is given and show we can get done in a lesser time standard. The PO jumps on that and plays the victim. They cry unfair? SO, OBVIOUSLY, they want to decrease the time standard.

Standards get lessened AND THEN, we beat those time standards. Any arbitrator will only see the time to money ratio. They will see our years of analytics and actual times. These things are going to support the employer.
Why would they EVER side with the employee? The only part that is not fair to our craft. The employer has never once provided the current daily evaluation to the employee. They have us constantly chasing the incentive and delivering blind to the expectations of the time standard.
HOW CAN a pieceworker/pay for performance/ quasi hourly/salaried employee honor the time standard when we never know timewise what is expected of us while we are working?

Show me what is expected of me (the current day/ weekly evaluation) and then watch me honor it as closely as I can. In the end, I believe the PO wants us to have an incentive system that reflects as close to hourly as it can? If that is the case, it is fine with me, but play fair. Show me what you expect of me. What is happening in the field is a mess ( we are all going rogue in different ways) They are taking advantage of us by not clearly showing us their expectations. We need to know what time we are expected to get done by the system daily. We need to know how to perform the tasks in order to keep our work day within their time expectations. Maybe they want us to fail. With this info left out, they really are not acting in good faith.

I think the incentive needs defined because each side is interpreting it different. They need to give us the tools (CWE) to make it work. They need to train us aggressively on how to perform within the expected time frame. We need to learn how to do it by the book, no cutting corners, no skipping standards.
The incentive is ours, we just need to know how to use it in order to make this system work so each party can feel they are benefiting.