Mapping question

[Finally Regular]

So I have 257 apt units. Would I need to map each door delivery point or do I need to group for instance building 200 abcd which which are at the bottom and group efgh which are on the second floor. Just put each group farthest from the park point to make sure i get appropriate credit since they are grouped or would it best best to map each door point

 

[Rural-life-0323]

Map every single front door and every single park point. It takes forever but I have an all apartment route and it's worth it and the correct way. We get paid to go up to the 3rd floor. 4th floor or more there is another way to do it. Map the front door points even if they over lap the previous floor.

I would also suggest that you follow local, city, state and federal laws with parking. Apartments are private property. Follow their policies about assigned parking and such. Don't park or map to red zones, fire hydrants, or any where that it is illegal to park. I had to remap my entire route because the previous carrier was mapping to illegal parking places. I walk further now but I'm paid more and in compliance with the laws and USPS policy. If you're going to be out there working ... GET PAID for it.

 

[lorewood]

Not to hijack the thread but I have a similar question In mobile home parks with some central mail collection boxes how do we handle the mapping for package deliveries . Are they mapped to every trailer's front door or porch as stops ? The last time we did mapping the program did the up and down the trailers parks streets but there was no "Points" for the actual front doors and all the walking up to the porches and back to the truck. So am i getting ripped off for all those actual journeys from the truck to the porch? At around an average of 15-20 @ door packages a day in that park the distance and time is significant.

 

[Rural-life-0323]

Not to hijack the thread but I have a similar question In mobile home parks with some central mail collection boxes how do we handle the mapping for package deliveries . Are they mapped to every trailer's front door or porch as stops ? The last time we did mapping the program did the up and down the trailers parks streets but there was no "Points" for the actual front doors and all the walking up to the porches and back to the truck. So am i getting ripped off for all those actual journeys from the truck to the porch? At around an average of 15-20 @ door packages a day in that park the distance and time is significant.

There are two types of mapping LTM (Line of Travel Mapping) and DPM (Delivery Point Mapping). They are required to have you review LTM every month with shows how you drive your route. YOU must approve and review this. Not management. They are not required to make you review DPM but you are allowed to do it every single month. You have to set up a time, on return2DU time ONLY to do it.

It sounds like you are only looking at LTM if I'm reading this right.

Inside of DPM you must have the mailboxes plotted and where you park for each of the mailboxes/CBUS/Clusters of boxes. You must then also have a front door plotted for EVERY address on your route and also where you park for each which may not be the same place as the mailbox(es). If your DPM isn't right you may be losing a lot of money. If you've never done it I'd suggest you do it ASAP. The route I ended up on was mapped by a union rep and she had the entire route messed up. Took me months to fix it.

I also suggest you NOT map or park in illegal places. We cannot park in red zones or in front of fire hydrants period, as an example. You shouldn't be mapped that way and not do it on the streets. Map to the closet legal places which may give you even further distances. Some states allow very quickly blocking a driveway, though, and others allow trailer parks to have different rules since they are private property. You'd need to research your local laws and map to/do what benefits you when the laws apply that way.

 

[lorewood]

There are two types of mapping LTM (Line of Travel Mapping) and DPM (Delivery Point Mapping). They are required to have you review LTM every month with shows how you drive your route. YOU must approve and review this. Not management. They are not required to make you review DPM but you are allowed to do it every single month. You have to set up a time, on return2DU time ONLY to do it.

It sounds like you are only looking at LTM if I'm reading this right.

Inside of DPM you must have the mailboxes plotted and where you park for each of the mailboxes/CBUS/Clusters of boxes. You must then also have a front door plotted for EVERY address on your route and also where you park for each which may not be the same place as the mailbox(es). If your DPM isn't right you may be losing a lot of money. If you've never done it I'd suggest you do it ASAP. The route I ended up on was mapped by a union rep and she had the entire route messed up. Took me months to fix it.

I also suggest you NOT map or park in illegal places. We cannot park in red zones or in front of fire hydrants period, as an example. You shouldn't be mapped that way and not do it on the streets. Map to the closet legal places which may give you even further distances. Some states allow very quickly blocking a driveway, though, and others allow trailer parks to have different rules since they are private property. You'd need to research your local laws and map to/do what benefits you when the laws apply that way.

I didn't even know there was two types of mapping. I will get on this tomorrow to figure out just what they have for my route.

next question : how exactly do I plot every front door of my route I don't recall seeing that as a feature on my scanner at least in the rural menus ? Do I get gps data from my phone and make a list or am I missing some technique in some hidden menu? Plus 750 trailers and the other half of the route that is a huge job to begin with for the DPM if the postal service don't have them somewhere I can reference for validity. I am sure they do but again how do I obtain that information in a usable format.

As an aside the postal service and the union seem to have a huge training problem when we take on a full time route from being temps. This DPM is news to me ( or forgotten ) and I have been on the route for a year and a half. Shouldn't there be an orientation of some sort to maximize the routes and verify the routes. heck a list of required punches would have been useful last year.

Thanks for the quick reply , I very seldom have time to just sit and my computer and look thinks up.

 

[shoe72]

Since when does the PO worry about any laws? I have many points I do U turns over double yellow lines, back up into driveways from highway, back up way more than 50 ft to turn around and drive across traffic to get to boxes. I've been commanded, err told, to cross park on roads to deliver packages and even stop in active work zones to get out and deliver packages. I've had untold numbers of PM's and OIC's go out to look to correct it and nothing was ever done in 15 years, maybe more. It's laughable at this point. And the union was notified and also, did nothing. Laws, they don't care about your stinkin' laws.

 

[Rural-life-0323]

I didn't even know there was two types of mapping. I will get on this tomorrow to figure out just what they have for my route.

next question : how exactly do I plot every front door of my route I don't recall seeing that as a feature on my scanner at least in the rural menus ? Do I get gps data from my phone and make a list or am I missing some technique in some hidden menu? Plus 750 trailers and the other half of the route that is a huge job to begin with for the DPM if the postal service don't have them somewhere I can reference for validity. I am sure they do but again how do I obtain that information in a usable format.

As an aside the postal service and the union seem to have a huge training problem when we take on a full time route from being temps. This DPM is news to me ( or forgotten ) and I have been on the route for a year and a half. Shouldn't there be an orientation of some sort to maximize the routes and verify the routes. heck a list of required punches would have been useful last year.

Thanks for the quick reply , I very seldom have time to just sit and my computer and look thinks up.

You need to talk to your supervisor or local facilitator. It has to be done in the office on a computer as EOS duties. Chances are someone did it at some point since it was forced on all routes about 3 years ago. The facilitator can walk you through the process (hopefully).

They'll pull up your route and you'll have a chance to review every address on your route if you need to. It can take a long time if there are a lot of changes that are needed but it shouldn't if the last person did it right. Any time a new address(es) is added to the route this needs to be done.

Yeah the union has complained about the lack of training. It's not in managements interest to teach us everything since it save them money if we do it wrong. My local union had a bunch of workshops when it was first implemented but nothing since.

Also if you don't know, there is a chance other don't. Spread the word. This, LTM and your edit books are the top three MOST important things carrier can do to be paid right. The scans on the scanner would be almost the least important but still important, to.

 

[Shannonboy]

"postal service and the union seem to have a huge training problem"
The answer is YYYEEEESSSSSSSSthey do....the usps sucks at training, and union is butt-ugly worthless. You are pretty much on your own......typically.

 

[neciat]

@lorewood You can take a look at The RRECS Guide. Page 22 is where the mapping info begins. It would behoove you to read the whole thing. You'll have a better grasp of how one aspect / vector in the system has an effect(s) on other aspects / vectors since many of the calculations are formula based and rely on at least two pieces of information. If one of those pieces of info is "off" or "wrong" , the ending result will also be incorrect.

https://ruralinfo.net/shared-files/104116859/?nrlca-comprehensive-guide-to-rrecs-revised-02.04.25.pdf

 

[Rural-life-0323]

Since when does the PO worry about any laws? I have many points I do U turns over double yellow lines, back up into driveways from highway, back up way more than 50 ft to turn around and drive across traffic to get to boxes. I've been commanded, err told, to cross park on roads to deliver packages and even stop in active work zones to get out and deliver packages. I've had untold numbers of PM's and OIC's go out to look to correct it and nothing was ever done in 15 years, maybe more. It's laughable at this point. And the union was notified and also, did nothing. Laws, they don't care about your stinkin' laws.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not but I also have spent years trying to get my management to fix things on my route.

You should be driving it correctly and your LTM mapping can be adjusted once you do it more than 5 times. If there is a further away place to u-turn then you drive there are do it legally. If not the management MUST adjust the route. This was supposed to happen over the last two years with route adjustments.

You also can't drive on someone's driveway period if it's part of private property and especially if it forces an unsafe backing up condition. You have to walk it but if it's 1/2 a mile from the mail delivery point you don't even go to the door. If you can't deliver it on a highway you leave a 3849 in the mailbox and they HAVE to pick it up.

So of these park places you mentioned it makes me wonder where your park points are mapped to. I hope those are correct or you're losing money.

You can't do illegal things or unsafe things period. If you have to get district or OSHA involved, do it. It sounds like your route needs to be adjusted. You realize if you get a ticket for breaking the laws that goes on your record, right? If it's arrestable they have every right to arrest you. There are few exemptions for mail delivery and every cities laws are different.

And always remember, you have the right to ignore unsafe orders from management. Parking in a work zone sounds unsafe on the surface without me seeing it.

 

[oi veh.]

You also can't drive on someone's driveway period if it's part of private property and especially if it forces an unsafe backing up condition. You have to walk it but if it's 1/2 a mile from the mail delivery point you don't even go to the door.

please clarify your statement.

we most certainly can, and do, "drive on someone's driveway."

PO-603 states 1/2 mile from mailbox.

one way.

that entails driving up said driveway, parking at park point and delivering to door (or garage/other location).

which should be mapped for proper credit.

 

[Rural-life-0323]

please clarify your statement.

we most certainly can, and do, "drive on someone's driveway."

PO-603 states 1/2 mile from mailbox.

one way.

that entails driving up said driveway, parking at park point and delivering to door (or garage/other location).

which should be mapped for proper credit.

There is no policy allowing us to drive onto someone's driveway. It's private property. If you get into an accident, good luck with that. We also can't put ourselves into a hazardous situation that requires backing up. If you get into an accident it will be your fault.

Unless the driveway itself is on the line of travel it's a deviation by strict policy interpretation. Policy and practice are two different beasts. In this case, the backing into (or out of) a driveway from a highway is completely unsafe.

The only reasons to pull into a driveway would be for things like a hardship and/or with PM approval. If the mailbox is up the driveway with a safe way to turn around and the PM has approved it, then that's different but we can't just go up a driveway simply to leave a parcel at the door, without approval.

And yes I should have said "more" than 1/2 a mile from the delivery point, we don't go.

 

[oi veh.]

There is no policy allowing us to drive onto someone's driveway. It's private property. If you get into an accident, good luck with that. We also can't put ourselves into a hazardous situation that requires backing up. If you get into an accident it will be your fault.

Unless the driveway itself is on the line of travel it's a deviation by strict policy interpretation. Policy and practice are two different beasts. In this case, the backing into (or out of) a driveway from a highway is completely unsafe.

The only reasons to pull into a driveway would be for things like a hardship and/or with PM approval. If the mailbox is up the driveway with a safe way to turn around and the PM has approved it, then that's different but we can't just go up a driveway simply to leave a parcel at the door, without approval.

And yes I should have said "more" than 1/2 a mile from the delivery point, we don't go.

then you are in direct violation of the PO-603.

 

[Rural-life-0323]

then you are in direct violation of the PO-603.

Where? Point it out. Please correct me.

The PO 603 331.2 CLEARLY states that you sound the horn or try to get the residents attention to come out to the vehicle, first. It then says if it's under 1/2 mile you DISMOUNT and attempt delivery.

We also cannot leave the package outside unless 1) the person answers the door 2) they have a written authorization with the post office to leave it at the door and/or 3) the package is marked "Carrier - Leave if no response". If one of those three are not meant we leave a 3849. By policy.

The word driveway does not exist in the PO 603 or DMM. The POM has it twice but it's not in regards to delivering, so you're going to have to point it out to me where I'm wrong. The strict policy says we walk (dismount).

Line of travel means where you are mapped on the LTM. Turning into a driveway would be considered an unauthorized deviation (unless it's authorized) and in most cases unsafe since we are to avoid backing up when possible.

On the union website the driveway word is only used in one line in the RRECS Q&A. Even the union site uses the following language when someone asked if we get paid to go up driveways they say - "The "out of route" driving up driveways etc. is not included in EMA" It's only used twice there as well.

I'd love to be corrected so I could let my PM know they are wrong, too. Practice and policy are NOT the same thing.

This also points out where RRECS fails in another area.

 

[Shannonboy]

Well....whether you are wrong, or right either way, it's just ridiculous....I really dont give a rip about the rules most of the time personally.....especially when they are just STUPID....I'm more of a if it makes COMMON SENSE, then that's how its gonna get done. I took an oath to do this job to the best of my ability, and that's what I'm gonna do. Period.
Po mgmt constantly does rules for thee, but not for me....so as far as I'm concerned I'll follow the basic rule structure UNTIL IT GETS STUPID, OR DANGEROUS. Then, I'm out....I'll do what makes sense....im a grown man, and if I screw up, I'll take my licking and keep on ticking....its retarded when the rules are more important than serving the customer. Be smart, follow rules when they are APPLICABLE, or BENEFICIAL, but outside of that....be a responsible red blooded AMERICAN, and get the job done.❤

 

[Rural-life-0323]

Well....whether you are wrong, or right either way, it's just ridiculous....I really dont give a rip about the rules most of the time personally.....especially when they are just STUPID....I'm more of a if it makes COMMON SENSE, then that's how its gonna get done. I took an oath to do this job to the best of my ability, and that's what I'm gonna do. Period.
Po mgmt constantly does rules for thee, but not for me....so as far as I'm concerned I'll follow the basic rule structure UNTIL IT GETS STUPID, OR DANGEROUS. Then, I'm out....I'll do what makes sense....im a grown man, and if I screw up, I'll take my licking and keep on ticking....its retarded when the rules are more important than serving the customer. Be smart, follow rules when they are APPLICABLE, or BENEFICIAL, but outside of that....be a responsible red blooded AMERICAN, and get the job done.❤

I'm not wrong. It's direct policy.

I agree to some extent. I don't follow everything to the T myself, but I'm also not doing stupid things that could alter my personal life. For example, I'm not throwing "current resident" mail away since I could possibly end up in jail under the right circumstances, even if I've put if back in a mail box for the ump-teeth time this month.

There is a fine line. My local policy says take everything to the door and leave it. Therefore it's the PM on the hook when something gets stolen, not me but effectively my local management is wrong and the reason USPS has to pay out claims. (Another reason we are losing money)

Also I was told I was wrong and the previous post is in regards to that claim. I'm not wrong by strict policy interpretation.

 

[Shannonboy]

I'm not wrong. It's direct policy.

I agree to some extent. I don't follow everything to the T myself, but I'm also not doing stupid things that could alter my personal life. For example, I'm not throwing "current resident" mail away since I could possibly end up in jail under the right circumstances, even if I've put if back in a mail box for the ump-teeth time this month.

There is a fine line. My local policy says take everything to the door and leave it. Therefore it's the PM on the hook when something gets stolen, not me but effectively my local management is wrong and the reason USPS has to pay out claims. (Another reason we are losing money)

Also I was told I was wrong and the previous post is in regards to that claim. I'm not wrong by strict policy interpretation.

Yep....I pretty much agree. I guess I'd say, being independent is more where I lean, and doing things by the book, is not. However, you must walk your own path in life, and you are an adult, so if things backfire, you are the one that gets to clean up the mess. With that being said, you are also the one that benefits if things turn out great!! Which I hope it does. Regardless of how things go, watch your back with po mgmt, 99.8 of them are pure-dee EVIL, and will stab you in the back so quick it'll make your head spin.... you cant trust the union either, they are hands down some of the most worthless people I've ever met, with a few, and I mean very few exceptions...
P.S. Also, being told you are WRONG on this site is one way of entertaining ourselves here, some people take themselves too seriously, other are wwwaayyyyy smarter than you, or I, and they are usually right when they say you are wrong. Either way, I wouldnt let it get to ya....

 

[neciat]

The M-38 has this from Section 433 ;

433 PRIVATE DRIVEWAYS

433.1 A driveway leading directly to a customer’s yard is private and should not be considered
public even though maintained by a municipality

433.2 Rural service must not be extended onto private driveways.

 

[Shannonboy]

Neciats always right...