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"... We've always done it this way."

Diana_of_Themyscira

Well-known member
It's the most dangerous phrase (although it's a sentence, technically) in the English language, so said Computer Pioneer and Navy Admiral Grace Hopper.
That's exactly what the customer said when I issued her PS Form 4056 checking the first box - Your box is not an approved box.
She came to the PO and talked to the clerk who relayed the message to me : "Explain in detail why my mailbox is not an approved mailbox; we have been using it for the last 10-20 years."
Backtracking several months, I had a conversation with her husband who proudly told me he made that mailbox almost 30 years ago. And that it has been withstanding the test of time. Well, the mailbox shows some patina and really looks old, which I think is cute. ( I love retro and vintage looks.) Unfortunately, it's a locked box and the slot is way too narrow that I would need to do some origami to the flats so they'd fit. I even had to take the phonebook to the door because that poor thing won't fit either.
Now, they've been getting small packages from China; I have been driving all the way up to the house to deliver. They have dogs inside a wired fence. They are often inside but there were a couple of times they were out and they ran to my vehicle that I almost hit them. She said they do that because the UPS and FedEx guys give them treats. Well, too bad, because I am the USPS girl and I do NOT give dog treats.

I have 2 questions :
1. 30 years ago, could customers take it upon themselves and just make their own mailboxes?
Is the measurement for the door slots the same as for the mailboxes?
I know the rule now says they have to present it to the postmaster for approval. But what was the rule back then?
Apparently, they want to continue using their mailbox because "they have always done so for the past 20 something years."
My supervisor said that because the former carriers delivered to that box, then it is implied that it is an approved box.
"It's not your fault, the ones before you did it so you'll have to continue doing it, too."
"Oh sir, you're saying that it might have been a fault then but still you want me to continue doing the same fault that the others did. Shouldn't we stop that and correct it?"
"No. It's your job to deliver."
"With due respect, sir, I do not think that is right."

2. Should I stop going up to their driveway because of the few instances when the dogs were out?
I'm guessing they might be out more often now because the weather is getting warmer.


I need help, please. ? Thank you ! ?
 
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Once service is rendered to a mailbox it is considered "postal approved", so your pm is correct. By the way, you also have "approved" this box by delivering to it.
To stop door delivery your only legitament hope is the dog "problem".
You may have a chance to stop the many trips up to the house by killing them with "kindness". Offer to put up a large mail box right next to theirs. They get to continue to use the box the have for years, you don't have to go to the house everyday, a win/win.
 
The route I am assigned to had this EXACT same problem.....tell you how I handled it.

First, I had a out....as I live out in po-dunk/flyover country......the rural pig trails called roads are NOT well maintained.....so the road to this customers home isn't in fine shape......the main road (if you can call it that) is passable but the trail up to the home is questionable. This customer started getting a bunch of CHINA parcels that wouldn't fit in the slot and I just told them that the mailbox is no longer adequate for the volume of mail they are getting. MY thinking....those slot boxes were made for city routes........I have no idea if they are or not. On a rural route (which a rural route and city route where the houses are 50 feet from the curb are very different. Anyway I told this customer......he can put up a larger parcel box, leave a tub at the slot box, let me leave the parcels at the neighbors home right by the line of mail boxes or leave the bottom of their lock slot box open (where the customer and the carrier are the only ones that know it is open (I have several customers that do this for med parcels).

Just communicate with your customer.....let them be part of the solution.....they just want their mail; but in these times of no time to really give good service (still trying).....we need to get more creative. For having the word Service in their name the Postal Service is sure making it tough on customers and employees alike.
 
I thought we were not supposed to have slots on our boxes, I believe people tried that on another route and they had to remove box.
 
I think because the Home Improvement stores sell them and they are stamped on them Postmaster General approved....they think it is fair game to put them up.....I am in the mind set....you need a mailbox that meets your daily needs......at least that is what I told this guy.....if it works I will tell you all. Also....I don't think they should even sell the small mail boxes anymore.....just not practical. I have noticed that the small Amazon box has been reduced in size to fit in a small box.....that is a start.
 
Once service is rendered to a mailbox it is considered "postal approved", so your pm is correct. By the way, you also have "approved" this box by delivering to it.
To stop door delivery your only legitament hope is the dog "problem".
You may have a chance to stop the many trips up to the house by killing them with "kindness". Offer to put up a large mail box right next to theirs. They get to continue to use the box the have for years, you don't have to go to the house everyday, a win/win.

I UNKNOWINGLY (caps to show emphasis, not anger :)) approved it; I didn't know any better then. But just because we have always done it this way doesn't mean we should always continue doing so... ?
 
WONDERing WOMAN -- [ Home made 30-year old locked mail box with a ( too ) small slot ]

"I have 2 questions :

1. 30 years ago, could customers take it upon themselves and just make their own mailboxes? "

-- The national magazine sometime features custom-built mail boxes on the cover or inside the issue.

-- Actually customers still can, IF Step 4 ( M-38.70 from 1991 ) is still in effect as well as DMM 156.516 -- in part: Postmasters are authorized to approve rural mailboxes constructed by individuals who, for aesthetic or other reasons, do not wish to use an approved manufactured box. The custom-built box must conform generally to the same requirements as approved manufactured boxes relative to the flag, size, strength, and quality of construction.

-- Since the mail box in question has been used to 30 years, consider it "grandfathered" if no one can find an "approval" document for it.

-- Please note: Section 156.516 is now Section 508.3.2.2 in the DMM of 7-5-11 and has the same wording. Moving on:

-- DMM Section 508.3.2.3 -- Locked Box - A mail box with a lock must have a slot that is large enough to accommodate the customer's NORMAL daily mail volume. The USPS neither opens a locked box not accepts a key for this purpose.

-- Step 4's ( M-9 ) and ( L-24 ) -- both refer to: a mail box with a lock MUST have a slot that is large enough to accommodate the customer's normal daily mail volume.

- What are the measurements for the current slot?

- DMM Section 508.2.1.6 -- Door Slot ( as in building's front door ) -- A door slot for mail must meet specific criteria:

a. The clear rectangle opening in the outside slot plate must be at least 1.5 inches wide and 7 inches long. ( not that anyone asked, but 7 inches too small, IMHO, for a curbside mail box )

- Unfortunately, the "China parcels" have now become the new "normal", so ask the husband if he would be willing to cut a larger slot ( to handle the China parcels ). ( at least large enough for China parcels or a box of checks )

"2. Should I stop going up to their driveway because of the few instances when the dogs were out."

-- If sounding the horn does not get the customer's attention, it's your call to get to deliver the mail or parcel, but remember, if there is any ( bad ) interaction between you and the dogs - it will be YOUR fault! Even if you are carrying dog spray and a satchel ( which you probably have not been properly trained to use in defending yourself ).

-- Politely inform the customer that if the dogs ( or other animals are loose in the yard ), you will be leaving a 3849 notice.
 
It has to be "pmg approved" look up the rules.

No mail goes to the door, leave notice. If parcel got a flat credit, instead of a parcel credit, leave notice.(last mailcount i used the dimensions of my smallest mail slot as the guide if it's a flat or parcel. Something you can agree on in the pre meeting this September).
 
I have many of these types of boxes on my route. One in particular gets a few pkgs and they have dogs that run loose. I simply leave them a 3849. I have a couple others that I will leave in parcel lockers (at CBU's). I just throw the key in their box. If you don't have parcel lockers close by, then that last suggestion is a moot point.
 
I have very little patience for small minded people who utter this thread's subject quotation - as if it makes perfect logical sense.
 
We have arrived at a time the customer needs not only a mail box but they also need a parcel or Amazon parcel box. I have customers who get 3,4, or more Amazon parcels a day, What's the mail box size for that normal daily volume? Why is the PMG approval stamp going on these not suitable for any large catalog mailboxes? Does the PMG not know these small and slotted boxes are costing the USPS big time and costing me $$$ to have to drive to the door. Come on PMG only approve mail that will handle an average Amazon parcel!
 
Why is it when the PMG's responsibility, or customer's responsibility, or anybody's responsibility but mine fails, it becomes totally mine and your burden to carry? Damn can the PMG and customer not realize the extra time and trouble these inferior boxes cause? Or do they just don;t care? That's right just pass the buck to me! I'll take care of everybody's Non- Responsibility and it won't cost them a penny. Just wait till every customer gets an extra small slotted mailbox to get all their mail delivered to the door> Oh by the way you might as well attach your mail box to your door! I'm just a rural carrier with nothing else to do! I just ride around with my arm hanging out the window! My arm aches, my back aches and mainly my head aches from all the management mental torture, but yeah I'm just dreaming I can hand deliver every customers mail today! FOR FREE FREE FREE!
 
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With regard to those goofy slot boxes: my reg will leave a notice and take little spurs back if he gets too tired of it. His reasoning is "those things are made to fit in the box, if they don't fit because of too much clutter, they can come get it."

The key point here is my reg has the cajones to pull this off. One of those guys that just doesn't lose arguments, so people stop trying.
 
BTDTRET -

DMM Section 508.2.1.6 -- Door Slot ( as in building's front door ) -- A door slot for mail must meet specific criteria:

a. The clear rectangle opening in the outside slot plate must be at least 1.5 inches wide and 7 inches long. ( not that anyone asked, but 7 inches too small, IMHO, for a curbside mail box )

-- I totally agree with you - 7 inches is too small of a length.
I measured the opening yesterday, it's 7/8 " wide and 7" long, immediately told the Supervisor about it.


"2. Should I stop going up to their driveway because of the few instances when the dogs were out."

If sounding the horn does not get the customer's attention, it's your call to get to deliver the mail or parcel, but remember, if there is any ( bad ) interaction between you and the dogs - it will be YOUR fault! Even if you are carrying dog spray and a satchel ( which you probably have not been properly trained to use in defending yourself ).

-- Whenever I approach a customer's property, I always honk the horn as a courtesy signal (with or without dogs), informing them that I am entering their property. Then I honk the second time for the ones with dogs, and a third one if I need their signature. This particular customer, I would say, always hears my horn, but he just can't keep the dogs from running towards me, even if he tries. Her reason - "the dogs run to the trucks because the UPS/FedEx guys give them treats."
-- Because of the series of safety talks we have in the office (and stories of co-workers who got bit by friendly and/or small dogs), I already decided to NEVER get out of my truck whenever dogs are around. I'm not worried about getting bit, I'm worried about hitting and/or running the dogs over. ?
 
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When a customer has a dog or dogs that chase or run along side my vehicle I give the customer both a verbal and a written notice their dog may be in danger. After that I follow what is taught in driving courses. You do not swerve for an animal in the road as you may roll over or hit another vehicle. 4 customers did not heed my notice.
 
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