Formula office and PTF's?

[lbpd16]

a little birdie told me the wheels are in motion to finally make our office a "formula" office. Does this mean that they will create PTF position(s)? Or can they make the office formula and just keep using RCA's? Don't know if PTF is a requirement or left up to the PM to decide. I would most likely take it if offered.

 

[btdtret]

Ibpd16 -- "a little birdie told me the wheels are in motion to finally make our office a "formula" office. Does this mean that they will create PTF position(s)? Or can they make the office formula and just keep using RCA's? "

-- The basics for going "Formula Office" are:

- There must be a shortage of leave replacements.
- Regular rural carriers are working relief days on more than an infrequent basis.
- The office has been unsuccessful in its hiring efforts.

-- Specifics for going "Formula Office" are:

- J routes have Saturday relief days
- AUX routes are 6/0 -- unless seasonal
- No real mention of creating PTF position(s)

-- Miscellaneous:

- Going "Formula Office" spreads the relief days through out the week, hopefully making it easier [ on manglement to schedule ] RCA's to cover relief days.
- The creation of PTF position(s) is at the discretion of the Employer. ( Article 30.2.A.3 ) But..
- There has to be a minimum of 2 K-routes without subs, whose regular carriers have submitted 120-Day notice forms to get a sub, and manglement has not obtained subs within the 120 days. ( and District gives its blessing - which may or may not be part of the solution )

-- PTF's can be utilized in numerous situations per the contract -- preferably after they complete their assigned route(s) -- including filling in on AUX routes, providing assistance where needed and even Sunday parcel work.

-- On the plus side, it is a career position ( Designation 76 ) ( leave earning status ) -- basically an RCA on steroids.

-- On the down side, a PTF CANNOT refuse conversion to regular rural carrier status. ( possibly something to consider as a number of RCA's have posted they won't bid on regular routes -- don't want the drop in pay! -- according to them )

-- Something to hold manglement to:

the position is posted for 10 days ( for any substitutes and RCA's who have completed their probationary period ( 90-work days or 1 calendar year ).
it is awarded within 10 days.
the awardee is placed in the position within 21 days.

 

[lbpd16]

A couple more questions:

We have 5 RCA's at the moment. When an office goes to formula is it typical to make all RCA's PTF's or do they just randomly make however many they want?

1 of us has an Aux route, the other is doing a hold down. I'm on temporary hold down as my regular is out on extended sick leave. 2 others just float day to day. If the top 3 us of become PTF do we stay on our hold down/Aux or do we start moving around again?

As PTF is a career position, do they get federal holidays off?

What about Amazon sunday? Do ARC/RCA work it first or PTF at the top of the list?

Are PTF's capped at working 40 hours a week?

If PTF's become regular carriers does the next RCA in line take that vacant PTF position or do they have to offer it again if its needed?

They plan on going off formula if we finally get enough RCA's

Regulars have already filed grievance trying to stop going to formula. They do not want to give up their saturdays off.

 

[gerl2]

A couple more questions:

We have 5 RCA's at the moment. When an office goes to formula is it typical to make all RCA's PTF's or do they just randomly make however many they want?

1 of us has an Aux route, the other is doing a hold down. I'm on temporary hold down as my regular is out on extended sick leave. 2 others just float day to day. If the top 3 us of become PTF do we stay on our hold down/Aux or do we start moving around again?

As PTF is a career position, do they get federal holidays off?

What about Amazon sunday? Do ARC/RCA work it first or PTF at the top of the list?

Are PTF's capped at working 40 hours a week?

If PTF's become regular carriers does the next RCA in line take that vacant PTF position or do they have to offer it again if its needed?

They plan on going off formula if we finally get enough RCA's

Regulars have already filed grievance trying to stop going to formula. They do not want to give up their saturdays off.

You didn't mention how many routes? Also, the grievance regulars filed will probably have the final results.

 

[gerl2]

I am also assuming that you are in a larger office which makes it easier to create PTF's, I've yet to hear if a PTF exists in a smaller office.

 

[btdtret]

Ibpd16 -- [ PTF's in a Formula Office ]

-- As "gerl2" mentioned, we would need to know the total number of routes ( and classifications: H, J, K ) in the office.

-- How many K routes with out subs and how many regulars have submitted the 120-Day Notice to get a sub and if any of the 120-Day notices have expired without getting a sub.

-- Search for "ptf" in RI's KNOWLEDGEBASE Section. If Step 4 ( R-95 ) is not there, get it inside the NRLCA web site.

-- Do a work search for "part-time flexible" in the contract to find when and where a PTF can be utilized ( several places!! )

"As PTF is a career position, do they get federal holidays off?"

-- Sure they do. The more important question: Do they get paid? ( don't think so, probably still considered an RCA -- anyone? )

"What about Amazon Sunday? Do ARC/RCA work it first or PTF at the top of the list?"

-- Article 30.2.P. Sunday Work. in part: When there is a need to work leave replacements on Sunday, the Employer may require a PTF work prior to selecting qualified employees from the list. ( there is that darn "may" again! )

"Are PTF's capped at working 40 hours a week?"

-- Step 4 ( P-125 ) seems to point that way. In part: A PTF rural carrier should be scheduled on their string assignment, if such assignment would NOT RESULT IN EXCEEDING 40 hours at the end of the work week. ( could be challenging with all the places a PTF could be utilized )

"If PTF's become regular carriers does the next RCA in line take that vacant PTF position or do they have to offer it again if its needed?"

-- Manglement would have to decide if the PTF position is warranted. If so, fill it via the bidding process.

-- Also in a Formula Office, losing an RCA could call for formula recalculation.

"They plan on going off formula if we finally get enough RCA's."

-- That we don't hear very often. It is more like once you become a Formula Office, seldom get off of it.

-- Something from Step 4 ( P-115 ) in part: If the formula is being recalculated due to an increase in the number of leave replacements ( RCA have been hired ), the recalculation WILL NOT BE DONE until the newly hired employee has completed basic orientation and training, including on-the-job training.

"Regulars have already filed grievance trying to stop going to formula. They do not want to give up their Saturdays off."

-- That's interesting. How are they being aggrieved? ( aside from losing their Saturday relief day? )

 

[Wilco183]

I want to say no to PTFs getting paid holidays...something about it being factored into daily pay. Wasn't a PTF for long, but recall working 4 July 2015 delivering Amazon.

 

[Windindaface]

Boo Hoo the Regs in your office want to keep their Saturdays. Saturday Sunday off as an assurance went out the window 30+ years ago as most business/ services now operate 7 days a week.

Before management goes formula they must fulfill certain requirements...

I'm in a smaller office and they are now talking formula due to 3 K's lacking coverage and the criteria in attachment was met.

 

[Bee]

Boo Hoo the Regs in your office want to keep their Saturdays. Saturday Sunday off as an assurance went out the window 30+ years ago as most business/ services now operate 7 days a week.

Before management goes formula they must fulfill certain requirements...

I'm in a smaller office and they are now talking formula due to 3 K's lacking coverage and the criteria in attachment was met.

Thank you for posting criteria mgmt should follow before going formula office.
If only all mgmt in all districts followed the rules they & the union agreed to. What wonderful workplace we would have.
I do not support the formula. After 20+ years the formula has only returned regulars to RCA status. It is offensive to work in a city with 50 rural routes, 25 RCA and however many PTF positions with only 13 Regulars with Saturday off. It's more offensive to hear RCA's brag about sitting at home doing nothing. Nothing against RCA's but contractually they were hired to work the relief day of route they are assigned to. In my district most were hired to work Saturday before converting to formula. Mgmt in my district refuse to hire, did not follow criteria to go formula and a class action was filed. A slam dunk case with documentation by ADR for two years of no attempt to hire posted or otherwise. The State Steward dropped the ball. No consequences.
Thus, many regulars are being driven into the ground with no relief. For anyone that says "too bad, too sad" please know it matters. Following agreements are a fundamental courtesy and show of character.
Ptf positions are good for the benefits of the person getting appointed. However, that is the only benefit. Routes will still be dowm and mgmt will be doing more carrier work just to attempt to get mail up and delivered. One body is still one body no matter what is on yr string.
Just my opinion

 

[lbpd16]

You didn't mention how many routes? Also, the grievance regulars filed will probably have the final results.

11 rural routes. 1 is an Aux, the others are all K

I really don't know what they are stating in the grievance. If I was to guess it would be that we haven't done enough to hire RCA's. I don't know what more we could do. If 10 pass the online tests and show up to the interview, 2 or 3 won't make background, another 2 or 3 wont show for training, another 2 or 3 will either not show up after training or quit after a couple days or weeks. Realistically 1 or 2 of that 10 work out. We tried posting the opening constantly, flyers in the office, ads in the paper. In 1 1/2 year 2 of us were hired. We just recently hired 3 more. 1 was already fired, another most likely will be.

I read the attachment. We have tried several of those things. Now they are asking us to personally try to get people to apply, family, friends, customers.

 

[lbpd16]

11 rural routes. 1 is an Aux, others are all "K". 2 floating RCA's. 1 RCA is on Aux, 1 on Hold Down, 1 on temp hold down.

Not sure about the 120 day letter

 

[Skierstmoritz]

11 rural routes. 1 is an Aux, the others are all K

I really don't know what they are stating in the grievance. If I was to guess it would be that we haven't done enough to hire RCA's. I don't know what more we could do. If 10 pass the online tests and show up to the interview, 2 or 3 won't make background, another 2 or 3 wont show for training, another 2 or 3 will either not show up after training or quit after a couple days or weeks. Realistically 1 or 2 of that 10 work out. We tried posting the opening constantly, flyers in the office, ads in the paper. In 1 1/2 year 2 of us were hired. We just recently hired 3 more. 1 was already fired, another most likely will be.

I read the attachment. We have tried several of those things. Now they are asking us to personally try to get people to apply, family, friends, customers.

Simple solution, raise the pay to what it used to be! Would be 22+ an hour now

 

[wamailmom]

They don't HAVE to create any PTF positions. And no, PTFs do not get paid holidays. It is supposedly "built in" to their slightly increased pay rate. If a PTF goes over 40 hours, they get paid time and a half, just like an RCA would.

 

[JFT]

11 rural routes. 1 is an Aux, the others are all K

I really don't know what they are stating in the grievance. If I was to guess it would be that we haven't done enough to hire RCA's. I don't know what more we could do. If 10 pass the online tests and show up to the interview, 2 or 3 won't make background, another 2 or 3 wont show for training, another 2 or 3 will either not show up after training or quit after a couple days or weeks. Realistically 1 or 2 of that 10 work out. We tried posting the opening constantly, flyers in the office, ads in the paper. In 1 1/2 year 2 of us were hired. We just recently hired 3 more. 1 was already fired, another most likely will be.

I read the attachment. We have tried several of those things. Now they are asking us to personally try to get people to apply, family, friends, customers.

What state are you in? Asking because I’m relocating in the near future and will be transferring.

 

[lbpd16]

Texas

 

[RDruckus]

I consider my office to be fairly large. We have been a formula office for years.

We have never had a PTF.

 

[lbpd16]

Found out today we start "formula" next saturday. I'm preparing myself for a lot of sick regulars. They are very unhappy about going to formula.

 

[lbpd16]

And found out today.....

Manglement rolled over after the regulars complained. Not going to formula. No PTF's.

 

[btdtret]

Ibpd16 -- "And found out today.....Manglement rolled over after the regulars complained. Not going to formula. No PTF's."

-- Pretty much guarantees no one will be happy, aside from those keeping their Saturday relief day.

-- Unless that has been put in writing, don't get too comfortable.

"Manglement rolled over after the regulars complained."

-- How often has that worked in the past?

-- Probably manglement finally sat down; looked at the "formula", looked at the calendar with the 4th of July holiday on Thursday day and said "No way I'm coming in on Thursday to":

- figure out the formula
- put numbers in the formula
- determine whose relief day gets moved from a Saturday to a week day
- and have it ready to go on Friday
- maybe we'll implement the formula office some other week

 

[lbpd16]

the Clown Show continues. Whenever it looks like us RCA's may get even a little break we get kicked again. We are, as my father has said, "lower than whale shit".