Notification of mail count.

nickiegirl62 · Aug 18, 2019

Cant find my original post so here I go. We received DPS about 3 months ago. Figured we would have to count in Sept under special circumstances clause. Did the 98 percent quality threshold for 3 days ending Friday. My question is dont they have to let us know 30 days before count which would have been Saturday the 17th. So do they get to use weekend as excuse? Plus Postmaster is gone on vacation until Wed. Any leg to stand on here as I am grabbing at any and all excuses and grievances to avoid this count!

Rt2mailman · Aug 19, 2019

You will count. They only have to have the pre-count conference to qualify 2 weeks (I think) before count time.

btdtret · Aug 19, 2019

nickiegirl62 -- "Any leg to stand on here as I am grabbing at any and all excuses and grievances to avoid this count!"

-- Unless an "Opt-Out" option is offered, plan on being counted.

-- Someone was really looking at the calendar as they got the DPS 98% quality threshhold completed on time -- barely.

-- From the 2018 NRLCA Mail Count Guide -- in part: Regardless of the type of mail count, a joint conference MUST be held at least 15 days prior to the beginning of the mail count. The M-38's Section 525.11 in case manglement wonders. If they miss the time frame, they can not change any office procedures / methods of doing things.

-- IF it would have been a National Mail Count, then the at least 30-Day notification would have applied.

DB.Cooper · Aug 19, 2019

nickiegirl62 said:
Cant find my original post so here I go. We received DPS about 3 months ago. Figured we would have to count in Sept under special circumstances clause. Did the 98 percent quality threshold for 3 days ending Friday. My question is dont they have to let us know 30 days before count which would have been Saturday the 17th. So do they get to use weekend as excuse? Plus Postmaster is gone on vacation until Wed. Any leg to stand on here as I am grabbing at any and all excuses and grievances to avoid this count!

Do you have an Auxy Rt in your office??? If so, go ahead and count... they will be required to rebuild all routes that lose over 2 hours during the count.... but there has to be an Auxy Rt where they can draw the extra territory from...

If there is enuf territory available, they should rebuild everyone to 43K at the end of the process... you should be in close contact with your ADR on ALL of this... just sayin'...

Charlie Brown · Aug 19, 2019

I'm pretty sure that when a route loses to DPS implementation Mgmt. is only required to rebuild what time is lost due to DPS.
(of course that still assumes there is an Aux. route to use for the rebuild)

Havenowgone · Aug 19, 2019

nickiegirl62 said:
Cant find my original post so here I go. We received DPS about 3 months ago. Figured we would have to count in Sept under special circumstances clause. Did the 98 percent quality threshold for 3 days ending Friday. My question is dont they have to let us know 30 days before count which would have been Saturday the 17th. So do they get to use weekend as excuse? Plus Postmaster is gone on vacation until Wed. Any leg to stand on here as I am grabbing at any and all excuses and grievances to avoid this count!

Wow, It's hard to believe there are still offices that don't have DPS yet. We received DPS about 25 years ago, I believe. Then FSS and have had Amazon for a long time also. We seem to be the first for everything and experienced first hand the issues with automated mail that others are just finding out about or still don't know anything about. I wonder how many offices are still not receiving DPS right now? Might be a good topic for a poll.

nickiegirl62 · Aug 19, 2019

Thanks everyone that was what I was wondering if the 30day applied

guess I am counting ...no auxie just 2 routes I am 45J and other carrier is 45k

DB.Cooper · Aug 19, 2019

Charlie Brown said:
I'm pretty sure that when a route loses to DPS implementation Mgmt. is only required to rebuild what time is lost due to DPS.
(of course that still assumes there is an Aux. route to use for the rebuild)

Yes, I believe that you are correct... but I'm not sure they'll rebuild past 43K.... and my old ADR said he was often able to get everybody rebuilt to 43K if sufficient territory was available.... so basically different everywhere... but I think the M-38 or some MOU says what you said.... just rebuild to time lost...

btdtret · Aug 19, 2019

All -- [ DPS rebuilds ]

-- From Step 4 ( D-18 ). in part: Once a route is evaluated using the appropriate DPS letter mail standard, manglement WILL adjust the route by transferring territory from other routes in the same 5 digit zone and the same office, equal to the DPS letter impact or the 43K classification, which ever is less; provided sufficient territory exits. if sufficient territory does not exist to provide the amount of rebuild described above for all the routes impacted by DPS letter mail within the same zone and office, management WILL first rebuild routes below 40:00 standard hours to 40:00 standard hours. Management WILL then attempt to provide an amount of rebuild less that described above to the remaining impacted routes by distributing the outstanding buffer as equitably as possible, yielding to operational rationale and feasiblity.

-- There's more to D-18.

-- Special note from D-18: in part -- DPS rebuilds should be completed within six ( 6 ) months from the effective date of the mail count used to determine the impact. ( mark your calendar! )

-- "They" might want to revisit that Step 4 since Arbitrator Clarke allowed AUX's to build up to 42 hours before converting to a regular route.

-- I'm sure a 42-hour AUX carrier would just be thrilled in having to "assist" a regular carrier on a 40-hour route!

Morty · Aug 20, 2019

nickiegirl62 said:
Thanks everyone that was what I was wondering if the 30day applied guess I am counting ...no auxie just 2 routes I am 45J and other carrier is 45k

You need to meticulously write down every single thing you do in a day. There's so many rules and steps. Every step you miss will cost you. Every task not counted will hurt you.

The pre count is very important. Get all your tasks in writing and present it to the PM.

magnolia72 · Aug 20, 2019

Our office was informed this morning that we will be counting due to getting DPS, which I figured would happen. We were also informed that we would have ANOTHER ride along. That will make #4 for me this year. PM rode the route with me just last week and to his surprise (not), my route mileage was UNDEREVALUATED! Go figure. So now, he's having to ride AGAIN to try to make our routes more "cost effecient" for the PO. I suwannee, if he cuts my route to give to another route to make it "fair", that will truly be my breaking point. We don't have an auxillary route in our office, but after our last mail count fiasco, my route was deemed overburdened and 2 hours was cut off to bring another route up to par.

btdtret · Aug 20, 2019

magnolia72 -- "after our last mail count fiasco, my route was deemed overburdened and 2 hours was cut off to bring another route up to par."

-- Unfortunately, "overburdened" gets tossed around like "smile and file".

-- The only "overburdened" that counts is addressed in Article 9.2.C.8.a. Definition.

A route is considered overburdened when:

( 1 ) The standard hours for the route are outside of the Table of Evaluated Hours ( that would be over 57:36 hours )

( 2 ) The regular rural carrier who is assigned to the route does not, or is not expected to, meet the requirement to stay within the annual guarantee for the route.

-- Which one applied to your route?

-- Did your Assistant District Representative take a look at the numbers and situation?

Windindaface · Aug 20, 2019

I hope you have been using the MMM case if you case or do not to prove 98% of the time their DPS is not 98% accurate.

Just saying when not on count as a case all. I place all my upside down DPS mail there.

An email was sent to all PMS last Saturday alerting them which routes will be counted.

magnolia72 · Aug 20, 2019

btdtret said:
magnolia72 -- "after our last mail count fiasco, my route was deemed overburdened and 2 hours was cut off to bring another route up to par."

-- Unfortunately, "overburdened" gets tossed around like "smile and file".

-- The only "overburdened" that counts is addressed in Article 9.2.C.8.a. Definition.

A route is considered overburdened when:

( 1 ) The standard hours for the route are outside of the Table of Evaluated Hours ( that would be over 57:36 hours )

( 2 ) The regular rural carrier who is assigned to the route does not, or is not expected to, meet the requirement to stay within the annual guarantee for the route.

-- Which one applied to your route?

-- Did your Assistant District Representative take a look at the numbers and situation?

My route evaluated to a 48K at the last count. I never had any problems making dispatch but the PO deemed it overburdened. I was hired as the sub for that route and never had any problems making dispatch (except twice in the very beginning as a new RCA). After I got the route and case down, it was never an issue. I had spoken to the prior PM that I didn't think the mileage or time was right on that right but as an RCA, there was nothing I could do. The regular constantly opted out of every mail count she could and told me that she would lose money, we both would.

I did speak to the union about being cut the 2 hours and she said that the PO was no longer allowing 48K routes. NICE!! I had been working a 48K route since 2012 and thanks to the regular consistently opting out, it stayed at a 45K until I was counted in the last count.

jerrylann · Aug 20, 2019

magnolia72 said:
I did speak to the union about being cut the 2 hours and she said that the PO was no longer allowing 48K routes. NICE!! I had been working a 48K route since 2012 and thanks to the regular consistently opting out, it stayed at a 45K until I was counted in the last count.

The PO is not allowing overburdened routes, which includes both 47 and 48k's.

magnolia72 · Aug 20, 2019

Windindaface said:
I hope you have been using the MMM case if you case or do not to prove 98% of the time their DPS is not 98% accurate.

Just saying when not on count I place all my upside down DPS mail there.

An email was sent to all PMS last Saturday alerting them which routes will be counted.

We do not have a 3M case in our office yet. I have just been casing all the upside down letters and missorted letters. I have no idea what to do during a DPS mail count but I intend on reading all I can because I am going to fight for what is rightfully mine! Talking with a coworker this afternoon, I told her that's our best defense because it's more than obvious our PM isn't on our side, he's only there to cover for the PO. If I've heard him say it once, I've heard it 1000 times, he's got to save the PO $$. Our tiny office out in the middle of BFE will in no way make up for the PO's money woes. I'm not asking to be given anything other than what I've been working for, after all, this is my livelihood they're toying with.

magnolia72 · Aug 20, 2019

Tomorrow, we start the DPS review to see that we're at 85%. Will this be similar to a mail count? What are some things I should be watching for?

Skierstmoritz · Aug 20, 2019

magnolia72 said:
Tomorrow, we start the DPS review to see that we're at 85%. Will this be similar to a mail count? What are some things I should be watching for?

Find out if the union is running a mail count school in your area. It is worth its weight in gold! There is so much minutiae in a count. It all adds up! Take for example clearance slips. You get time for those every day, if you do them.

HardearnedTan · Aug 20, 2019

And your PM sounds like he will try to deny, forget about, mishandle, and otherwise mess up those minutiae for the PO's (his) gain. So you need to be just as much an immovable object as he tries to be when the argument(s) arise--having the mail count rules ready at all times to back up your position.