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Ride along and other

As an add on, it's a good idea to contact your supervisor for the record at about 9-10 hours and remind them you'll either be bringing back at 12 hours per federal law or they can send assistance. I would also alert them before departure of the expectation of time on the route that day. Record it all for your records. No surprises, everyone's aware. Not the carrier's problem.
Thanks,that is a good idea. I had brought this up at the last union meeting,and the union says that they can work regular carriers past 12 hours,but that is when our overtime kicks in,and they are being told that absolutely no overtime and absolutely no help for the regulars in our district. However,RCA's cannot be worked past 12 hours. I just don't understand this concept.
 
Thanks,that is a good idea. I had brought this up at the last union meeting,and the union says that they can work regular carriers past 12 hours,but that is when our overtime kicks in,and they are being told that absolutely no overtime and absolutely no help for the regulars in our district. However,RCA's cannot be worked past 12 hours. I just don't understand this concept.
It’s all FLSA rules that were created for the Rural Craft. Regular Carriers can work over 12 hours/day or 56/week then Overtime Pay starts. Hours worked that are already paid as Overtime does not count in the 12 nor the 56.
This is because all hours worked go towards our 2240 max & all non-OT hours towards 2080. Our salary is based on 2080 plus overtime so staying under 2080 means you are paid for all hours worked for that year plus some. Every hour worked over 2080 is paid as extra overtime. Going over 2240 causes the big issue of recalculation of the whole Guarantee Year & a possible Letter of Demand.
Subs cannot work over 12 since they do not earn daily OT per FLSA rules. OT pay is not built into their daily rate as it is for Regulars. They must hit 40 worked hours to get the OT pay.
Some rules change during Christmas OT Period.
 
Thanks,that is a good idea. I had brought this up at the last union meeting,and the union says that they can work regular carriers past 12 hours,but that is when our overtime kicks in,and they are being told that absolutely no overtime and absolutely no help for the regulars in our district. However,RCA's cannot be worked past 12 hours. I just don't understand this concept.
You cannot make sense of it. The contract says that they cannot work RCAs more than 12 hours. Since when do they abide by the contract? They try, and do work rcas over 12 hours and its up to the rcas to file a grievance. Sometimes, by the time you notice they didn't pay you right, it's past the 14 day mark to file a grievance. This is the new way of doing business. Management does it anyway and forces us to fight back, knowing not everyone wants to fight. Why aren't we getting overtime for any time after our eval?
I was hoping this kind of bs mostly ended with career conversion. But it sounds like it doesn't.
 
If you switch to another federal job, your tsp and fers crosses over.

I don't know if you’re sick and annual cross over. For example: you want to be an IRS agent. Your last day as a mail slug is Friday and your start date for the new job Saturday, does leave go with you?
Earned AL is paid out & SL is credited as “time” but only as a portion.
 
Thanks,that is a good idea. I had brought this up at the last union meeting,and the union says that they can work regular carriers past 12 hours,but that is when our overtime kicks in,and they are being told that absolutely no overtime and absolutely no help for the regulars in our district. However,RCA's cannot be worked past 12 hours. I just don't understand this concept.
Throw the problem back to the supervisor and let them make the decision as to whether to pay you overtime or send help, bring you back, etc. That way it's THEIR problem and decision, and you stay out of conflict. Our carriers are instructed to contact the supervisor by 4 pm latest if they're going to be out past dispatch. If they know before departure they've got a heavy load and that's going to happen, they give the supervisor heads up (they just HATE surprises!) but it gives them choices so you don't have to stress over having to make a decision.
 
It’s all FLSA rules that were created for the Rural Craft. Regular Carriers can work over 12 hours/day or 56/week then Overtime Pay starts.

In your research, did you determine the first exception to ELM 432.32's 12-hour restriction is not applicable to regular rural craft employees? If so, how?

ELM 432.32.png

I agree that all hours a regular rural carrier actually works over 12 in one service day is paid as FLSA Overtime (150% x hourly rate) as opposed to some different specified rate or term associated with a rate (e.g., penalty overtime).

However, that applied rate only answers what compensation rate a regular rural carrier must receive if they actually work greater than 12 hours in a service day. It does not relieve management from their ELM 432.32 obligation to keep regular rural craft employees from working over 12 hours in a service day.

The first exception in ELM 432.32 restricts "working greater than 12 hours in a service day" by default unless the NRLCA agreement designates otherwise, and I've seen nothing that "designates otherwise."

If such designation existed, it wouldn't be placed with FLSA payment rules under Article 9, Compensation, Salaries, and Wages, but instead would be in Article 8, Hours of Work.

Additionally, since the general rule from ELM 432.32 restricts, that would require a specific rule to permit, and such specific rule would need specifically expressed and not implied. This notion is seen in the other union's agreements.

NPMHU Article 8.pngAPWU Article 8.pngNALC Article 8.png

If I've overlooked something, I hope you or someone here would point it out. 🤔 📚 💡
 
In your research, did you determine the first exception to ELM 432.32's 12-hour restriction is not applicable to regular rural craft employees? If so, how?

View attachment 13089

I agree that all hours a regular rural carrier actually works over 12 in one service day is paid as FLSA Overtime (150% x hourly rate) as opposed to some different specified rate or term associated with a rate (e.g., penalty overtime).

However, that applied rate only answers what compensation rate a regular rural carrier must receive if they actually work greater than 12 hours in a service day. It does not relieve management from their ELM 432.32 obligation to keep regular rural craft employees from working over 12 hours in a service day.

The first exception in ELM 432.32 restricts "working greater than 12 hours in a service day" by default unless the NRLCA agreement designates otherwise, and I've seen nothing that "designates otherwise."

If such designation existed, it wouldn't be placed with FLSA payment rules under Article 9, Compensation, Salaries, and Wages, but instead would be in Article 8, Hours of Work.

Additionally, since the general rule from ELM 432.32 restricts, that would require a specific rule to permit, and such specific rule would need specifically expressed and not implied. This notion is seen in the other union's agreements.

View attachment 13092View attachment 13091View attachment 13090

If I've overlooked something, I hope you or someone here would point it out. 🤔 📚 💡
We have language in 8.3.B on how Hourly overtime is paid & it references FLSA rules. Those pay rules are in 9.2.A.1 giving Regular Carriers when payment is warranted & how it’s paid. That allows Regs to work over 12/day or 56/week. h There seems to be no need for a defined interpretation in our Contract as there is no “explanation” in the RCAM on this.
Not all contracts have the same subjects in the same Article #. Article 16.7 in our Contract pertains to “Veteran’s Preference” in discipline whereas 16.7 in the NALC contract is about “Emergency Procedure”.
 
We have language in 8.3.B on how Hourly overtime is paid & it references FLSA rules.

FLSA overtime is the only type of overtime which regular rural carrier's are eligible for on condition of working over 12 in a service day.

Consider if the final paragraph in FLSA Section 7(b)...

...and if such employee receives compensation for employment in excess of twelve hours in any workday, or for employment in excess of fifty-six hours in any workweek, as the case may be, at a rate not less than one and one-half times the regular rate at which he is employed.

... were repealed. The working over 12-hour deliver-a-thon bonus would be no more.

My view is that elimination or modification of the wage multiplier doesn't eliminate or modify the 12-hour limitation. That rate just is a preemptive remedy on the "what wage shall be paid" portion of a dispute involving a regular rural carrier working beyond 12 hours in a single workday.

Those pay rules are in 9.2.A.1 giving Regular Carriers when payment is warranted & how it’s paid. That allows Regs to work over 12/day or 56/week. h
Payment is always warranted for hours worked. The federal minimum under FLSA warrants at least 150% of the regular time rate.

While I agree with you that a regular rural carrier who works over 12 hours in a work day warrants the 150% pay rate guaranteed via FLSA 7(b), I disagree that the presence of this federal minimum grants management authority to direct a regular rural carrier to perform over 12 hours without conflicting ELM 432.32. Even if the portion requiring the 150% rate weren't specifically stated in the contract, as I understand, it would still apply due to being federal law.

There seems to be no need for a defined interpretation in our Contract as there is no “explanation” in the RCAM on this.
As for RCAM positions, I disagree that the absence of a defined interpretation is equivalent to no interpretation needed. If that were the case, (I'm not asserting you believe it is or isn't) then the "interpretation" qualifier of 15.2 would need striken, and the "living document" nature of the RCAM would fall to the ground, as it would never need updated.

If I understand you correctly and am expressing my translation of your position accurately, it seems your position is that the presence of the FLSA overtime reference indicates an intent to allow exception to exceed the 12-hour limitation and satisfies the ELM's designated exception requirement, and you view the predetermined wage associated with a permissiveness to direct employees to work in exchange for that predetermined wage.

My position views the wage as a separate element from an element of permission to direct that work without contradiction of ELM 432.32.

Not all contracts have the same subjects in the same Article #. Article 16.7 in our Contract pertains to “Veteran’s Preference” in discipline whereas 16.7 in the NALC contract is about “Emergency Procedure”.
Of course. I agree in that sense, they aren't equivalent based on their codification, however, on specific bargaining subjects (such as "Hours of Work" or "Compensation, Salaries, and Wages", or "Leave") each union will place the agreement related to that subject as it impacts its bargaining unit under its appropriate major title, regardless of the number of the article. I referenced the other craft agreements on those subjects because ELM 432.32 equally affects each bargaining unit and their decision in negotiations to remain silent and maintain the restriction, or agree on a bypass.

While it seems at face that we won't ultimately agree the dependancies of ELM 432.32, I appreciate your response and offered viewpoints. ☺
 
If you switch to another federal job, your tsp and fers crosses over.

I don't know if your sick and annual cross over. For example: you want to be an IRS agent. Your last day as a mail slug is Friday and your start date for the new job Saturday, does leave go with you?
S/L and A/L carry over. The only thing lost is seniority.
I did this in 2017 and it was very smooth transition.
BEST MOVE EVER.
Now retired, second best move ever.
 
It’s all FLSA rules that were created for the Rural Craft. Regular Carriers can work over 12 hours/day or 56/week then Overtime Pay starts. Hours worked that are already paid as Overtime does not count in the 12 nor the 56.
This is because all hours worked go towards our 2240 max & all non-OT hours towards 2080. Our salary is based on 2080 plus overtime so staying under 2080 means you are paid for all hours worked for that year plus some. Every hour worked over 2080 is paid as extra overtime. Going over 2240 causes the big issue of recalculation of the whole Guarantee Year & a possible Letter of Demand.
Subs cannot work over 12 since they do not earn daily OT per FLSA rules. OT pay is not built into their daily rate as it is for Regulars. They must hit 40 worked hours to get the OT pay.
Some rules change during Christmas OT Period.
I


have checked light blue and I am working actual hours per week alot less than what I am really working. So, management,I believe can go in and even change your actual working hours per week to keep down the total toward 2240. I haven't worked 43 hrs a week since Amazon,more like 10 hrs or more per day. So,it seems every little thing is corrupt in the postal world.
 
I


have checked light blue and I am working actual hours per week alot less than what I am really working. So, management,I believe can go in and even change your actual working hours per week to keep down the total toward 2240. I haven't worked 43 hrs a week since Amazon,more like 10 hrs or more per day. So,it seems every little thing is corrupt in the postal world.
Are you saying that what is on LiteBlue DOES NOT match what is on the 4240 and / or RRECS clock in and out scans ?
 
I


have checked light blue and I am working actual hours per week alot less than what I am really working. So, management,I believe can go in and even change your actual working hours per week to keep down the total toward 2240. I haven't worked 43 hrs a week since Amazon,more like 10 hrs or more per day. So,it seems every little thing is corrupt in the postal world.
Some of us should check this also to see if it's commonplace or only isolated
 
I


have checked light blue and I am working actual hours per week alot less than what I am really working. So, management,I believe can go in and even change your actual working hours per week to keep down the total toward 2240. I haven't worked 43 hrs a week since Amazon,more like 10 hrs or more per day. So,it seems every little thing is corrupt in the postal world.
It’s spot on for me, but I am hourly until October. They better not to try and cheat me pay heads will roll.
 
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