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Contract offer? Where?

Oi veh. said:
Just so's all youse knows (and this is NOT an invitation, D.B.)

As per 5 USC 7311, we as federal employees are not allowed to strike, contract or no.

Just ask the traffic controllers.

That's it. Just an aside, please donot derail the convo. Thank you.
Click to expand...


USC 7311 is saying that we won’t have jobs if we strike or are involved.... umm.... any strike carries that risk....

This isn’t meant to derail anything... or to suggest we should or should not... point is we most certainly can if we all choose to stop coming to work until things get resolved... sure our union can’t incite it without all our wonderful reps being ripped out... big loss there.

This whole ‘but what about the rules’ crap only can take us so far. It’s weigh the consequences... and act, or not.

Now... to the topic of this thread... our DR said that rumor is that the PMG is possibly afraid to sign it, for fear of her job. Who knows what that means for us... interesting though.
 
Jmdw52 said:
USC 7311 is saying that we won’t have jobs if we strike or are involved.... umm.... any strike carries that risk....

This isn’t meant to derail anything... or to suggest we should or should not... point is we most certainly can if we all choose to stop coming to work until things get resolved... sure our union can’t incite it without all our wonderful reps being ripped out... big loss there.

This whole ‘but what about the rules’ crap only can take us so far. It’s weigh the consequences... and act, or not.

Now... to the topic of this thread... our DR said that rumor is that the PMG is possibly afraid to sign it, for fear of her job. Who knows what that means for us... interesting though.
Click to expand...

Sure they told them it was illegal in 1970 as well... and here we are 50 years later... SSDD...

Image result for usps strike pictures

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Every time I read about having a strike I keep thinking about the old movie, "Gone With The Wind".

I especially think about the character that stated they will win the war because they are gentlemen.

It was a good movie.

I wish I could say the same about what really happened.
 
Surprise! said:
Every time I read about having a strike I keep thinking about the old movie, "Gone With The Wind".

I especially think about the character that stated they will win the war because they are gentlemen.

It was a good movie.

I wish I could say the same about what really happened.
Click to expand...
It was a "Surprise " just like being a member of the NRLCA Union
 
I have seen more peeps over the past few years come to the realization that a STRIKE!!! might be an option... a few years ago, almost everyone said it would be no way, Jose... :unsure:
 
Surprise! said:
Every time I read about having a strike I keep thinking about the old movie, "Gone With The Wind".

I especially think about the character that stated they will win the war because they are gentlemen.

It was a good movie.

I wish I could say the same about what really happened.
Click to expand...
It sorta worked out okay for Vinnie Sombrotto in 1970... he went on to be the longest serving NALC President... they named a PO in NYC after him, and nowadays the NALC conducts their contract negotiations in a building named for him... might not be "Gone with the Wind"... but all of that ain't half bad either... they say, no guts, no glory... maybe sometimes, things can "surprise" you... just sayin'... (y)
 
The problem with the post office is Labor Costs. Last I read it was 73% of overall costs. They need to reduce that cost down, it is math and can't be argued really. There are ways to save costs and jobs, but it would need to all unions to be more flexible to meet these goals.

Going to 5-day delivery for mail only, would save money the math is there, and have parcel delivery 7 days would generate revenue in Urban areas. I would think to capture the cost savings we would have to split delivering mail and parcels. Parcels that wouldn't fit in mailboxes and signature items be delivered like UPS and FedEx to the door. Of course this wouldn't work for real rural areas, but urban areas. It would make sense to combine city and rural if going this direction. If we do this in Urban areas I know I could take on another 300-400 customers by not going to the door for delivery. This would cause routes to be combined and there be less routes, but they could offer/force early outs to those people. Of course routes would have to be squared off to make the adjustments.

I have done the math with our office and the savings would be great. Of course other things have to change to see my numbers besides just going to five day. (I'm not giving all my info/ideas away) Averaged my city would save 8 Million a year in spending costs, and if averaged out through out the Nation we come back to black by 1.7B a year and that is with the Prepayment still in play. I halved that number to be conservative because I really don't know the full scope through out the Nation. But will anyone care? I have sent/talked about so many ideas to save money but it all falls on deaf ears.

I really feel we will end up being RIFed, because no one does anything or seems to care. It is the easy way out to do a RIF, and I hear talk about it more and more from the people I know in upper management. The saying always goes like this, City carriers cost this much, Rural Carriers cost less, and contract carriers is even less then Rurals, as they smile thinking it is a great idea.

I keep bringing up a RIF so people won't be surprised if it does happen one day. It has happened to other people I know in other branches of government with unions, so it could happen to us. We need drastic change and we need it now.
Examples:
No one should be getting wait time, everything should run smoother.
All mail should be ready for us before our start time.
Crossing crafts to help get mail ready before carriers start times.
How many times have you been told that is not your job?
How many times have you been told not to grab parcels or mail early because it effects the clerks work? Even though it is 10ft away from you.
Casing has to change to meet the routes requirements.
Training of carriers has to change.
Better customer service from Management and the window.
Innovation to keep up with other companies.
Ect... Ect...

I have two new sayings I tell people that tell me it won't work:
If we can put a man on the moon, we can for sure come up with ways to save the post office.
If amazon has robots and better automation why can't we?

So why is the PMG sitting on the contract? I think I explained myself enough. And the Unions are not helping.
The PMG can't even get a Report to congress. From their last hearing she got chewed good for not producing one.
 
The
stingrayiii said:
The problem with the post office is Labor Costs. Last I read it was 73% of overall costs. They need to reduce that cost down, it is math and can't be argued really. There are ways to save costs and jobs, but it would need to all unions to be more flexible to meet these goals.

Going to 5-day delivery for mail only, would save money the math is there, and have parcel delivery 7 days would generate revenue in Urban areas. I would think to capture the cost savings we would have to split delivering mail and parcels. Parcels that wouldn't fit in mailboxes and signature items be delivered like UPS and FedEx to the door. Of course this wouldn't work for real rural areas, but urban areas. It would make sense to combine city and rural if going this direction. If we do this in Urban areas I know I could take on another 300-400 customers by not going to the door for delivery. This would cause routes to be combined and there be less routes, but they could offer/force early outs to those people. Of course routes would have to be squared off to make the adjustments.

I have done the math with our office and the savings would be great. Of course other things have to change to see my numbers besides just going to five day. (I'm not giving all my info/ideas away) Averaged my city would save 8 Million a year in spending costs, and if averaged out through out the Nation we come back to black by 1.7B a year and that is with the Prepayment still in play. I halved that number to be conservative because I really don't know the full scope through out the Nation. But will anyone care? I have sent/talked about so many ideas to save money but it all falls on deaf ears.

I really feel we will end up being RIFed, because no one does anything or seems to care. It is the easy way out to do a RIF, and I hear talk about it more and more from the people I know in upper management. The saying always goes like this, City carriers cost this much, Rural Carriers cost less, and contract carriers is even less then Rurals, as they smile thinking it is a great idea.

I keep bringing up a RIF so people won't be surprised if it does happen one day. It has happened to other people I know in other branches of government with unions, so it could happen to us. We need drastic change and we need it now.
Examples:
No one should be getting wait time, everything should run smoother.
All mail should be ready for us before our start time.
Crossing crafts to help get mail ready before carriers start times.
How many times have you been told that is not your job?
How many times have you been told not to grab parcels or mail early because it effects the clerks work? Even though it is 10ft away from you.
Casing has to change to meet the routes requirements.
Training of carriers has to change.
Better customer service from Management and the window.
Innovation to keep up with other companies.
Ect... Ect...

I have two new sayings I tell people that tell me it won't work:
If we can put a man on the moon, we can for sure come up with ways to save the post office.
If amazon has robots and better automation why can't we?

So why is the PMG sitting on the contract? I think I explained myself enough. And the Unions are not helping.
The PMG can't even get a Report to congress. From their last hearing she got chewed good for not producing one.
Click to expand...

The Postal Service claims it can't do the math. Why can you?

It is math so the answer must be accurate. Only if you set the problem up properly and your numbers are secret so we have to accept you at your word.

Secret reports are not facts any more than any other story.
 
When any of us are bleeding red in our family budgets, we cut something that is not necessary, not helping us to make or save $. What in the USPS adds nothing to our "product" (does any work that makes $), but is the the highest cost? That cost is the cost of managers. All offices are micro-managed any way from district managers, so let them do it all, and cut out the middleman, those highly paid pm's. They are simply not necessary. Supervisors heads should be next on the chopping block, and one of the smaller route carriers could get the time to send in our pay hours, every 2 weeks, and do the scheduling .
With the USPS's 1/6 ratio of managers to employees (people who do the work) we could save the cost of employing about 70,000 managers( 1/6 of the current USPS total employee # of 500,000), of whom are the highest paid of the USPS employees, without any effect to our current service to America. With this move the USPS could save 150% of the cost of all rural carriers without any effect to work being done.
 
Surprise! said:
The


The Postal Service claims it can't do the math. Why can you?

It is math so the answer must be accurate. Only if you set the problem up properly and your numbers are secret so we have to accept you at your word.

Secret reports are not facts any more than any other story.
Click to expand...
I don't pretend to know all, I am only giving my opinion and it is best to prepare for the worst. We all know they are looking to privatize the post office, it comes straight from their mouths at their hearings. It is a hard fact to swallow, but they have said this is what is happening. Another problem is all politics from congress also, there is too much involved to say what can be done
The only reason to keep it secret is I'm preparing something to send to others, and don't want others to take claim of my ideas. I have over 11 pages of ideas already with numbers. I want to see the post office saved if need be, and I hope I can sway whoever reads it when I'm finished to help do so. But people take credit for others ideas all the time. Time will tell, and it might not go anywhere, but I feel I got to try.

Rt2mailman said:
When any of us are bleeding red in our family budgets, we cut something that is not necessary, not helping us to make or save $. What in the USPS adds nothing to our "product" (does any work that makes $), but is the the highest cost? That cost is the cost of managers. All offices are micro-managed any way from district managers, so let them do it all, and cut out the middleman, those highly paid pm's. They are simply not necessary. Supervisors heads should be next on the chopping block, and one of the smaller route carriers could get the time to send in our pay hours, every 2 weeks, and do the scheduling .
Click to expand...
This should be automated with clocking in electronically in someway, be it through the scanner or a time clock. Currently we input time into RWHT, then we print them out, then we input it again into another program. They are converting it over just to use RWHT finally!
Rt2mailman said:
With the USPS's 1/6 ratio of managers to employees (people who do the work) we could save the cost of employing about 70,000 managers( 1/6 of the current USPS total employee # of 500,000), of whom are the highest paid of the USPS employees, without any effect to our current service to America. With this move the USPS could save 150% of the cost of all rural carriers without any effect to work being done.
Click to expand...
See, easy numbers gained right there is 5 billion saved. Most of what managers and supervisors do can be automated or simplified down to save money. It is all the little things that add up, but no one wants to change. The truth is we are over bloated everywhere and everyone can see it.
 
Last edited:
stingrayiii said:
The problem with the post office is Labor Costs. Last I read it was 73% of overall costs. They need to reduce that cost down, it is math and can't be argued really. There are ways to save costs and jobs, but it would need to all unions to be more flexible to meet these goals.

Going to 5-day delivery for mail only, would save money the math is there, and have parcel delivery 7 days would generate revenue in Urban areas. I would think to capture the cost savings we would have to split delivering mail and parcels. Parcels that wouldn't fit in mailboxes and signature items be delivered like UPS and FedEx to the door. Of course this wouldn't work for real rural areas, but urban areas. It would make sense to combine city and rural if going this direction. If we do this in Urban areas I know I could take on another 300-400 customers by not going to the door for delivery. This would cause routes to be combined and there be less routes, but they could offer/force early outs to those people. Of course routes would have to be squared off to make the adjustments.

I have done the math with our office and the savings would be great. Of course other things have to change to see my numbers besides just going to five day. (I'm not giving all my info/ideas away) Averaged my city would save 8 Million a year in spending costs, and if averaged out through out the Nation we come back to black by 1.7B a year and that is with the Prepayment still in play. I halved that number to be conservative because I really don't know the full scope through out the Nation. But will anyone care? I have sent/talked about so many ideas to save money but it all falls on deaf ears.

I really feel we will end up being RIFed, because no one does anything or seems to care. It is the easy way out to do a RIF, and I hear talk about it more and more from the people I know in upper management. The saying always goes like this, City carriers cost this much, Rural Carriers cost less, and contract carriers is even less then Rurals, as they smile thinking it is a great idea.

I keep bringing up a RIF so people won't be surprised if it does happen one day. It has happened to other people I know in other branches of government with unions, so it could happen to us. We need drastic change and we need it now.
Examples:
No one should be getting wait time, everything should run smoother.
All mail should be ready for us before our start time.
Crossing crafts to help get mail ready before carriers start times.
How many times have you been told that is not your job?
How many times have you been told not to grab parcels or mail early because it effects the clerks work? Even though it is 10ft away from you.
Casing has to change to meet the routes requirements.
Training of carriers has to change.
Better customer service from Management and the window.
Innovation to keep up with other companies.
Ect... Ect...

I have two new sayings I tell people that tell me it won't work:
If we can put a man on the moon, we can for sure come up with ways to save the post office.
If amazon has robots and better automation why can't we?

So why is the PMG sitting on the contract? I think I explained myself enough. And the Unions are not helping.
The PMG can't even get a Report to congress. From their last hearing she got chewed good for not producing one.
Click to expand...

You original assertion that a cost savings should come, once again, out of our pockets by further breaking our collective backs is wrong, wrong, WRONG!! Nothing personal, but we, the folks who actually touch the mail are THE vital parts in the operation!! Please reference post #35 for the correct answer; although I believe 1/6 is a bit conservative when it comes to cutting needless, wasteful management positions. More like 30 - 50% would be about right. I have espoused this position for years and years: since the poor, woe is me Post Office BS started. If you don't touch the mail, your position in USPS should be looked at for RIF!! Imagine the billions and billions $$$ that could be saved
 
In a service industry you will naturally have high labor costs. The USPS has extremely high
Management costs compared to companies in the service industry. (Bloated, unproductive,counterproductive, management!)

It's like the craft workers are swimming to save someone, and management is throwing us lead weights to help.
Sure, divers may use weighted belts in their endeavors, but that won't help a lifeguard trying to save someone! But sadly, many of these management types have never gotten their feet wet, or failed when they tried to learn to swim.
 
RDruckus said:
In a service industry you will naturally have high labor costs. The USPS has extremely high
Management costs compared to companies in the service industry. (Bloated, unproductive,counterproductive, management!)

It's like the craft workers are swimming to save someone, and management is throwing us lead weights to help.
Sure, divers may use weighted belts in their endeavors, but that won't help a lifeguard trying to save someone! But sadly, many of these management types have never gotten their feet wet, or failed when they tried to learn to swim.
Click to expand...
See my post about Ford cutting management..... whoooppee..
 
I think she is afraid to sign because Congress will be all over her if it includes raises or more benefits that cost money. Keep in mind, in the most recent Congressional hearing on the postal service, they were appalled that she didn't present them with a plan to bolster the service.
 
stingrayiii,

Head over to the union website and look at the archived NRLCA newsletters... you’ll note a pattern. Every time a contract is up, all the headlines are ... 5 day delivery.. privatization.. no money.. etc.

We all know that the PO is in financial peril.. but, they are also using it as leverage to posture for negotiation. There’s much more than meets the eye about the PO not making enough money. None of us even have access to the information needed to really objectively make a useful decision.

Example... I suggest, hey, don’t keep using forever stamps... last stamp raise was five cents... you just lost ten percent of the value of all the currently purchased but unused stamps.... they say, well interim stamp printing (1 cent stamps) costs too much... where’s the balance? Make five cent increments?

Too bad there’s not an easy way to sell a ton of stamps at once... think about it... a guaranteed ten percent increase in value that is predictable down to a set date.... sure, I’ll take $100,000 in stamps please...

Just a thought experiment.... next time your on route, instead of letters, picture handling the physical money based on what the postage is worth...
 
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