Auxiliary sub

gotstamps · Jan 15, 2017

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Deer Smearer said 

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gotstamps said 

The aux can/should be on the matrix. The aux primary sub isn't on the matrix due to working only their primary(ies). There is no bumping, DeerSmearer, so RCA 3 taking it as a primary would be "bumping" past the leave replacement assigned to the aux matrix.

primary route vacancies must be offered to the 2nd/3rd matrix before going to seniority.

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No on several accounts.

First, vacant primary route assignments are offered based on seniority. 30.2.E ( see m-32 page 14 for an example)

Aux routes are filled by seniority 30.2.G 1-5

There is no matrix selections for aux routes. (Bottom of m-32 page 9)

If the assigned carrier is not available it is offered by seniority (like a regular route order of consideration step 5 & 6.a.) 30.2.G.5

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First... 30.2.G.5 is not about the order of consideration. It speaks on Aux sub assisting other routes. ONLY 30.2.G.2 speaks on filling the vacancy and speaks to offering to QUALIFIED subs, not just by seniority, which could leave out the top sub if they've never run the route. "QUALIFIED" is a slippery slope and those on matrix should be seen as "most qualified". That m-32 is super OLD as it speaks on TRCs (no longer exist) & doesn't speak to PTFs who CAN bump 2nds & 3rds, even just for a day or 2 on an aux route. M-32 is NOT even referenced in the contract, so I wonder if it would even hold if used in a grievance.

The ultimate question would be... has outskirt ever run this aux and if not, then they would not be the "most qualified by seniority" as is stated in the contract AND on the M-32.

Deer Smearer · Jan 15, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">gotstamps said 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
Deer Smearer said 

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
gotstamps said 

The aux can/should be on the matrix. The aux primary sub isn't on the matrix due to working only their primary(ies). There is no bumping, DeerSmearer, so RCA 3 taking it as a primary would be "bumping" past the leave replacement assigned to the aux matrix.

primary route vacancies must be offered to the 2nd/3rd matrix before going to seniority.
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No on several accounts.

First, vacant primary route assignments are offered based on seniority. 30.2.E ( see m-32 page 14 for an example)

Aux routes are filled by seniority 30.2.G 1-5

There is no matrix selections for aux routes. (Bottom of m-32 page 9)

If the assigned carrier is not available it is offered by seniority (like a regular route order of consideration step 5 & 6.a.) 30.2.G.5
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First... 30.2.G.5 is not about the order of consideration. It speaks on Aux sub assisting other routes. ONLY 30.2.G.2 speaks on filling the vacancy and speaks to offering to QUALIFIED subs, not just by seniority, which could leave out the top sub if they've never run the route. "QUALIFIED" is a slippery slope and those on matrix should be seen as "most qualified". That m-32 is super OLD as it speaks on TRCs (no longer exist) & doesn't speak to PTFs who CAN bump 2nds & 3rds, even just for a day or 2 on an aux route. M-32 is NOT even referenced in the contract, so I wonder if it would even hold if used in a grievance.

The ultimate question would be... has outskirt ever run this aux and if not, then they would not be the "most qualified by seniority" as is stated in the contract AND on the M-32. </blockquote>
You are correct about 30.2.G.5 That was added in the new contract and .5 was renumbered to .6. So I should have said 30.2.G 1-4, 6.

Yes m-32 is old, but still relevant. PTFs were created after m-32 so they have the additional right to be used before secondary and tertiary subs.

As for qualified, with regards to the matrix and order of consideration, it has two different definitions.

In order to be awarded, selected, or placed (whatever you want to call it) in a primary position or aux route qualified is defined as

Aux route..."A leave replacement is considered qualified to accept an auxiliary route assignment if they are available to serve the route and able to perform the full duties of the auxiliary assignment."

Or

Primary route..."For the purpose of this subsection, the term "qualified" means available to serve the route and able to perform the full duties of the leave replacement assignment."

Qualified for secondary or tertiary matrix selections, or seniority based if secondary or tertiary are not available is defined as "having been previously trained or utilized on" the particular route.

EthelAnne · Jan 16, 2017

ok, a couple of things since we seem to be getting bogged down in matrix interpretation issues, and not sure that's even relevant to the OP at this point (it will be after the aux is awarded). First things first, and referring back to my original reply on this thread, and to clear up something that may be a misunderstanding in the OP's mind, once you are offered and accept the aux route, you should be given by management the Designation 79 Option form. The carrier does not present that form to management, the form is required as part of the carrier's designation change. If you don't get it, I would assume they forged your signature on it, or record keeping is totally dysfunctional in your district. Regardless of the reason why, if you don't sign off on it, contact your union rep.

And just as a general FYI, regarding the age of references, MOUs, etc., all this stuff remains in effect until something comes along to supersede it. In my office, we've used MOUs from the 1980s to support our position, and unless management can produce something new, that old ratty MOU from 1983 remains in force. Once an issue is resolved, that's it, unless they change their minds about it and negotiate something new. They don't keep issuing a new MOU (or whatever) in 1984, and 1985, 1986, etc., on the issue--that issue is settled and the documentation from 1983 is good. That's why the NRLCA website is so important when researching. I have my own problems with the union website and I've complained along with the rest of you about it, but that's the only place you'll find information that you can be sure is still relevant. If you find it there, you can be confident that's the most recent, and current, position.

gmail28 · Mar 17, 2017

Question- what if you choose the 6-0 option and later your aux route is eliminated? Say for instance other routes added them to theirs. Are you now out of a job? The route you used to sub for has surely since hired a new replacement I'd assume.

btdtret · Mar 17, 2017

gmail28 -- "what if you choose the 6-0 option and later your aux route is eliminated?"

-- You drop out of leave-earning status. Any unused annual leave will be paid in a lump sum - less taxes. Sick leave will remain on the "books" for at least 3 years although it may not show on the pay stub. That's why you save all those pay stubs.

-- You return to the ranks as a plain RCA. If there are no openings to be a primary sub, there may be openings for 2nd and 3rd positions on the Matrix.

-- You might be able to "farm" yourself out to other sub-short offices in your area.

bazkitcase5 · Oct 24, 2017

What happens if you are in a really small office that is planning to open up an Auxiliary route and there may not be enough subs to allow for the 5/1 option?

As it stands, we have 3 routes, with 3 subs, but a carrier is about to retire soon. At that time they will promote the #1 sub and leave me with the choice of taking over the Auxiliary route. However, in a small office like this, it could be quite some time before they are able to hire 2 new subs. So this really has me wondering what kind of options I will have. I like the possibility of working both routes in a single day if I have that option temporarily when the time comes.

Also, as far as earning SL and AL, will I be able to take that any time (after I earn it of course), even when the office is short handed?

btdtret · Oct 24, 2017

Clayton -- "As it stands, we have 3 routes, with 3 subs, but a carrier is about to retire soon. At that time they will promote the #1 sub .."

-- What is the current break down ( K's, J's, H's ) of the 3 routes? 

-- What is the current break down of relief days?

-- Promote-? No! The #1 sub will have to be the successful bidder to get the route.

-- If he/she makes a mistake in the e-bidding process, the route will go to another carrier. That could be you if you don't make an error in the e-bidding process. Or the route could go to an excessed regular carrier within 50-100 miles of your office.

-- Why is the post office considering adding an Auxiliary route? Rapid growth the other routes can not handle?

-- Any idea what the hours would be for the AUX?

-- Depending what the relief days are, the office could manage with the existing number of subs, even with the AUX.

" I like the possibility of working both routes in a single day if I have that option temporarily when the time comes." ( careful what you wish for! )

-- Depending on the hours of the regular route and the AUX, that could get old real fast, especially during the Christmas No-Overtime Period.

-- Manglement is not supposed to schedule RCA's for 12 hours or more in a day ( Step 4 R-96 ). Say there is an 8.5 regular route and a 3.5 AUX -- that's 12 hours and should not / can not be scheduled!

"as far as earning SL and AL,.."

-- You will only earn SL and AL when actually working the AUX route.

-- As far as taking any SL or AL, good luck in a possible sub-short office.

-- Thanks to the 2015-2018 ( page 49 ), AUX carriers, once finished with their route, can be utilized just about anywhere in the office

-- Manglement should be hitting bricks and posting ads, searching for RCA's as they know a regular will be retiring soon and their desire to make an AUX route.

-- Anyone on the current hiring list?

-- Any near by post offices that might lend an RCA to cover route(s) in your office?

bazkitcase5 · Oct 24, 2017

for such a small, close knit office, it seems kind of dirty if I managed to go full time over the sub ahead of me because of an "e-bidding error" - although I don't see it happening, if it did, it just wouldn't seem right as she is a nice person and has been waiting for 7 years

as far as the current break down, all 3 routes are heavy (over 9 hours) and at least 2 are experiencing rapid growth... all 3 have subs that work on Saturday - 1 will be cut because of the carrier retiring and another carrier is wanting to lessen the load as well, which will go to the auxiliary route - as of now, my guess is it will be around 3-4 hours...

I am currently in the situation where I want as many hours as I can get, as I could use the money - so with that in mind, the 5 and 1 part interests me, but I am unsure if that will even be possible, so I am trying to learn as much as possible before that time comes - obviously I wouldn't want to be abused, but I am unclear on how everything works, so that is why I am asking... I wouldn't mind trying to do extra work when possible, but not something I would want to do all the time, particular on Mondays or days after holidays, etc. - when you say an aux carrier can be utilized anywhere in the office, what exactly does that entail?

but other than getting as many hours as I can reasonably handle (at least at first), I eventually would love to take advantage of the SL & AL to get the occasional Saturday off if possible - I thought that once leave time is earned, that it had to be honored if requested and it was up to management to figure out how to fill the route (but that may just apply to full time carriers, rather than auxiliary carriers?)

gotstamps · Oct 24, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">Clayton said 
for such a small, close knit office, it seems kind of dirty if I managed to go full time over the sub ahead of me because of an "e-bidding error" - although I don't see it happening, if it did, it just wouldn't seem right as she is a nice person and has been waiting for 7 years

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Nice or not, you should bid anyway. If you don't and she makes a mistake, the route goes to district bidding & an outsider gets the chance to take the route from you both. As long as you're an RCA, bid on everything or you may get passed over? Good luck!

BeatsAll-IEverSeen · Oct 24, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">gotstamps said 

The aux can/should be on the matrix.</blockquote>
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primary route vacancies must be offered to the 2nd/3rd matrix before going to seniority. </blockquote>
Um, no — this is not correct. You’re confusing the tertiary carrier having dibs on the 2nd position. The primary positions should be filled by seniority. No one’s “bumped.” Why would an RCA with lesser seniority be able to take an auxiliary route from a more senior RCA unless the more senior RCA(s) refused the position?

gotstamps · Oct 24, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">BeatsAll-IEverSeen said 

Um, no — this is not correct. You’re confusing the tertiary carrier having dibs on the 2nd position. The primary positions should be filled by seniority. No one’s “bumped.” Why would an RCA with lesser seniority be able to take an auxiliary route from a more senior RCA unless the more senior RCA(s) refused the position? </blockquote>
The primary position is to be offered to the secondary prior to seniority. They would be the most qualified for the route which trumps seniority. It is in the rules of matrix. I do know now that an Aux sub needs not be on the matrix. We didn't use the matrix for my first 2 years way back when so when it was implemented, a few of us got screwed out of hours and not everything went as the rules stated they should.

Our office recently had to go through matrix changes due to losing subs without mgmt allowing movement. They even told newbies that nobody can move during their "probation". So glad my idiot subhas moved on to a different route. I'll still be cleaning up after a sub, but at least I won't feel as if all the training I gave has fallen on deaf ears.

Deer Smearer · Oct 25, 2017

Primary positions are offered by seniority. It doesn't matter who the secondary or tertiary subs are. 30.2.E.1.

Qualified for secondary and tertiary means previously utilized or trained on the route.

Qualified for primary positions means able to physically do the assignment (AKA alive )

Deer Smearer · Oct 25, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">outskirts402 said 
I will be offered an auxiliary in our office soon since we have a vacant route and the top sub will be making regular. Since we have a Saturday sub

for the auxiliary already, I suppose my only option will be 5/1. Correct? </blockquote>
If you are assigned/awarded the aux, and you are not in a formula office it's YOUR choice to run it 6/0 or 5/1.

bazkitcase5 · Oct 27, 2017

I was hoping I could get some more concrete answers to my questions. I posted in an old thread so I wouldn't clutter the forum with something related to a similar topic.

stillfirstclass · Oct 28, 2017

clayton.

you get to choose the 5- 1 option.. you will earn s/a on the aux. only.. they will have you run 2 routes a day if it schedules less than 12 hours a day.. if you choose the 6 - 0 option, used to be they couldn't use you on other routes, that has changed and they can utilize you anywhere in office now.. you can use a/s leave if a sub is available, probably sat.'s don't look like there is a chance, especially since aux rts don't get to have their own sub.. i would search out subs in nearby area looking for work, good luck

Deer Smearer · Oct 28, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">Clayton said 
I was hoping I could get some more concrete answers to my questions. I posted in an old thread so I wouldn't clutter the forum with something related to a similar topic. </blockquote>
You need to request leave like any other regular carrier. If a sub is available on the day you want off then the request should be approved.

You start earning leave on day 1 (only on the aux route) but need to be in leave earning status for 90 days before you can use it.

bazkitcase5 · Oct 28, 2017

ok good to know, thanks

I definitely won't mind the hours increase at first, as I could use the extra hours - however, can they force you to work both routes on the same day anytime they wanted to? (seems a little extreme if they could force you to work a 12 hour day)

if I choose the 5/1 option, then I am primary for both a regular route and the aux route? so say a carrier takes off 2 days that week, then I would be able to work the regular route those 2 days and then work the aux route the other days?

and as far as leave, if there is no sub available and I can't get someone from another office to help, then I basically wouldn't be allowed to use my leave? what if I were sick and unable to work?

gotstamps · Oct 29, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">Clayton said 
ok good to know, thanks

I definitely won't mind the hours increase at first, as I could use the extra hours - however, can they force you to work both routes on the same day anytime they wanted to? (seems a little extreme if they could force you to work a 12 hour day)
if I choose the 5/1 option, then I am primary for both a regular route and the aux route? so say a carrier takes off 2 days that week, then I would be able to work the regular route those 2 days and then work the aux route the other days?
and as far as leave, if there is no sub available and I can't get someone from another office to help, then I basically wouldn't be allowed to use my leave? what if I were sick and unable to work? </blockquote>
It is not your job to find a sub to work for you. You put in your leave request & it's mgmts job to find coverage. If you're sick, call the 1-800 # and go back to bed or the Dr or both. NOT your problem. This is likely one reason the 1-800 was created. Saves us from being guilted into working while we're sick and/or calling everyone trying to reach a boss.

Cliff Clavin · Oct 30, 2017

We have a sub that runs a 6 day aux route. Even though they had sick leave accumulated the PM didn't want to let them off claiming a shortage of subs. Well long story short the sub had to use 3 of the sick leave days in about 3 or 4 months so the PM wrote them up.

Even though you have earned the sick leave they don't want you to use it. It's our leave not theirs.

btdtret · Oct 30, 2017

Cliff Clavin -- " Well long story short the sub had to use 3 of the sick leave days in about 3 or 4 months so the PM wrote them up."

-- Certainly hope the AUX carrier grieved being written up and the charges thrown out or at least reduced to an "official discussion".

-- Tell the carrier to come to work when feeling sick and to be close to the PM's desk when feeling queasy. Maybe be throwing up on the PM's desk will be proof enough that the carrier should have been home, using the EARNED sick leave.