CarrierPU in containers. Actual RRECS wording?

[LouSainus]

Management is now requiring all pickups to be credited as containers. For example if you pickup a tub of parcels it counts as 1 item or if a customer has a cart they load them in and you roll it to your vehicle its 1 item. They are also requiring carriers to bring tubs to pickups not in containers and we load the parcels into the tub and then only receive credit as 1 item since its in 1 container now. Regardless if we have to scan the items they are saying its the number of containers since the scanner says enter the number of packages/containers picked up(physically) for the RRECS O function.

Ive gone through a ton of documentation on this and nothing says anything about containers except a few posters but actual contracts or MOUs dont say this. The old mail count which was removed from the contract used to say sacks of prepaid parcels count as 1 unless we have to scan the items inside.

Additionally they are also saying we only get credit for items if they weigh over 2lbs. Which is also in the old mail count. We dont have scales to weigh items and credit is applied through the scanner at acceptance.

The union is saying we get full credit for all items picked up during a carrier pickup event and the prepaid 2lb thing is only if pulling an item from a mailbox or its just prepaid acceptance if under 2lbs.

What's the actual contractual wording on the containers? It can be an MOU or contract or a handbook. The PUB 399 was updated to have everything scanned as accepted but do we get rrecs O item credit for that plus H prepaid credit?

 

[neciat]

Did you submit the grievance form yet ? The RRECS Guide has this, in part, on page 80 ;

29. Carrier Pick Up Items and Prepaid Parcels over 2 pounds

The CARRIERPU entry on the MDD is used to indicate a carrier pick up event and to
indicate the total number of pieces collected. The panel mandated this method to
ensure all CPU events are captured and, because the Postal Service may change the
number of pieces required to be scanned at each carrier pick up, ensure the carrier is
credited with the correct number of pieces and scans each day.
Regardless of whether there is a manifest issued, carriers are credited with each item
picked up as part of a carrier pick up event and each prepaid item over 2 pounds in the
same manner. S046 (Carrier Pick Up and Prepaid Items) is credited at 0.1592 minutes or
9.55 seconds per piece and includes the following tasks

 

[DohnJalton]

Stop picking up packages and tell the customer USPS does not want their business.

 

[LouSainus]

Did you submit the grievance form yet ? The RRECS Guide has this, in part, on page 80 ;

29. Carrier Pick Up Items and Prepaid Parcels over 2 pounds

The CARRIERPU entry on the MDD is used to indicate a carrier pick up event and to
indicate the total number of pieces collected. The panel mandated this method to
ensure all CPU events are captured and, because the Postal Service may change the
number of pieces required to be scanned at each carrier pick up, ensure the carrier is
credited with the correct number of pieces and scans each day.
Regardless of whether there is a manifest issued, carriers are credited with each item
picked up as part of a carrier pick up event and each prepaid item over 2 pounds in the
same manner. S046 (Carrier Pick Up and Prepaid Items) is credited at 0.1592 minutes or
9.55 seconds per piece and includes the following tasks

I showed them that but they said since the rrecs system is from the union it doesn't apply. They have to go off their own internal wording(which they won't provide) and since the scanner says enter number of packages/containers on the menu that means individual parcels dont count unless they are over 2lbs. I also showed them the Q and A question which says enter each qualifying item and each pre paid item but they also said isnt policy so doesn't count.

 

[oi veh.]

I showed them that but they said since the rrecs system is from the union it doesn't apply. They have to go off their own internal wording(which they won't provide) and since the scanner says enter number of packages/containers on the menu that means individual parcels dont count unless they are over 2lbs. I also showed them the Q and A question which says enter each qualifying item and each pre paid item but they also said isnt policy so doesn't count.

you tell them the RRECs system is the result of arbitration.

then file the grievance.

 

[neciat]

I showed them that but they said since the rrecs system is from the union it doesn't apply. They have to go off their own internal wording(which they won't provide) and since the scanner says enter number of packages/containers on the menu that means individual parcels dont count unless they are over 2lbs. I also showed them the Q and A question which says enter each qualifying item and each pre paid item but they also said isnt policy so doesn't count.

I realize that The Guide isn't something one can really cite as "official language" . However, that Guide is based upon what the engineering panel determined. You put a stop to this ASAP. Every day that goes by and these P/U events are not recorded properly , is damage done to all routes that will probably never be recovered. Just a FEW of the many citations of which the PO is in violation are ; The Nat'l Agreement which states ;

ARTICLE 5
PROHIBITION OF UNILATERAL ACTION

The Employer will not take any actions affecting wages, hours
and other terms and conditions of employment as defined in
Section 8(d) of the National Labor Relations Act which violate
the terms of this Agreement or are otherwise inconsistent with
its obligations under law

And the two attachments.

 

[really]

Kindly explain that RRECS is a system that measures your pay for what you do. (as they know this already and ask how you are getting compensated for the task) they want you and us to work for free. let them know you can pick up one and leave the rest. At 9.55 seconds we are still losing time on it

 

[ATCBigE]

Management is now requiring all pickups to be credited as containers. For example if you pickup a tub of parcels it counts as 1 item or if a customer has a cart they load them in and you roll it to your vehicle its 1 item. They are also requiring carriers to bring tubs to pickups not in containers and we load the parcels into the tub and then only receive credit as 1 item since its in 1 container now. Regardless if we have to scan the items they are saying its the number of containers since the scanner says enter the number of packages/containers picked up(physically) for the RRECS O function.

Ive gone through a ton of documentation on this and nothing says anything about containers except a few posters but actual contracts or MOUs dont say this. The old mail count which was removed from the contract used to say sacks of prepaid parcels count as 1 unless we have to scan the items inside.

Additionally they are also saying we only get credit for items if they weigh over 2lbs. Which is also in the old mail count. We dont have scales to weigh items and credit is applied through the scanner at acceptance.

The union is saying we get full credit for all items picked up during a carrier pickup event and the prepaid 2lb thing is only if pulling an item from a mailbox or its just prepaid acceptance if under 2lbs.

What's the actual contractual wording on the containers? It can be an MOU or contract or a handbook. The PUB 399 was updated to have everything scanned as accepted but do we get rrecs O item credit for that plus H prepaid credit?

Ask them this.

What happens if I have 15 packages for 1 house to drop? I can only take 4 at one time. I guess the other 11 go out the next day because only 1 trip????

 

[btdtret]

LouSainus et al -- "Management is now requiring all pickups to be credited as containers. For example if you pickup a tub of parcels it counts as 1 item or if a customer has a cart they load them in and you roll it to your vehicle its 1 item.

-- Sounds as if the USPS has personnel going through RRECS documentation, manuals, and old mail count procedures to further reduce rural carriers' wages.

-- Back in the last decade of the last century, we had similar events during mail counts.

- A certain utility company would send out billing statements around the 1st of the month in tubs ( supplied by the USPS ).

- The rural carrier got a credit of ONE LETTER for a tub full of letters! And there could be 3 or 4 tubs!

- When disputed, the reasoning given was that the carrier only handled the tubs of letters. The utility company personnel put the letters in the tubs, not the carrier!

- Most mail counts back then managed to miss out on the utility company's mass mailings.

 

[LouSainus]

LouSainus et al -- "Management is now requiring all pickups to be credited as containers. For example if you pickup a tub of parcels it counts as 1 item or if a customer has a cart they load them in and you roll it to your vehicle its 1 item.

-- Sounds as if the USPS has personnel going through RRECS documentation, manuals, and old mail count procedures to further reduce rural carriers' wages.

-- Back in the last decade of the last century, we had similar events during mail counts.

- A certain utility company would send out billing statements around the 1st of the month in tubs ( supplied by the USPS ).

- The rural carrier got a credit of ONE LETTER for a tub full of letters! And there could be 3 or 4 tubs!

- When disputed, the reasoning given was that the carrier only handled the tubs of letters. The utility company personnel put the letters in the tubs, not the carrier!

- Most mail counts back then managed to miss out on the utility company's mass mailings.

This may be the case but I am trying to find the source of the container language in anything official regarding RRECS. My office picks up multiple millions of dollars a year of carrierPU postage items by rural carriers so this issue is a pretty big one. The scanner when RRECS first came out said enter in number of parcels when prompted during the carrierPU. Then it was changed to say "Enter in number of packages/containers" which is what it says today and neither of which are defined in the RRECS system like parcels are now(any item with a scan regardless of size is a parcel.
Everything is random FAQs or posters or quick guides etc on this matter. The Comprehensive Guide to the Rural Route Evaluated Compensation System is the closest thing that has time standards etc that I can find to official language. The RCAM which is managements version of the contract just says this in regards to RRECS which is what the 2024-2027 contract says as well.

3. Rural Route Evaluated Compensation System

a. The official evaluation of a route will be determined semi-annually by applying the
appropriate standards pursuant to the Rural Route Evaluated Compensation System.

The PO-603 which still has the old mailcount language since it hasnt been updated since 2013. This was removed from the 2024-2027 contract as it does not apply. All of section 535 which is the mailcount of the 603 should be removed as it no longer applies but thats the manual for rural carrier duties.

Anyway it says

21. Column 21 – Carrier Pickup Request and Prepaid Parcel Event Enter in this column the number of official requests received via “My Post Office” (MyPo).Record the pickup event even if the official pickup request results in no qualifying pieces being collected. Record one event for prepaid parcels in excess of two pounds not associated with Carrier Pickup requests.
22. Column 22 – Carrier Pickup Items and Prepaid Parcels over 2 lbs Record each Priority Mail, International Mail, and Priority Mail Express item picked up by the carrier at a Carrier Pickup location. Also, record each prepaid parcel accepted in excess of two pounds including Parcel Return Service (PRS) and Merchandise Return Service (MRS). Sacks of parcels collected will receive one parcel accepted count. Individual parcels in the sack will not receive an individual count unless the carrier is required to scan each piece.
Record the ACTUAL number of eligible packages picked up by the carrier. Obvious letter and flat mail pieces collected at a Carrier Pickup location are not included in Column 22

And the 2020 version of the mail count says

Column 21 – Carrier Pickup “Requests” & Prepaid Parcel Event
A sack of pre-paid parcels collected is credited in Column 21 (Carrier Pickup Request /Prepaid Parcel Event) and Column 22 (Carrier Pickup Items/Prepaid Parcels). If the carrier is required to scan items contained in the sack at the delivery point, the carrier would receive individual credit as appropriate. If the carrier is required to empty the sack upon return to the post office, additional credit is provided in Column 17 (Other Suitable Allowances).

And

Column 22 – Carrier Pickup “Items” & Prepaid Parcels
Sacks of parcels collected will receive one parcel accepted count. Individual parcels in the sack will not receive an individual count unless the carrier is required to scan each piece.

The union ran with this wording in the example part after their answer for question 211 of the RRECS Q and A but the actual answer to that question says count the number of qualifying items(has a list essentially anything with a scan) and items over 2lbs and input that number in the RRECS menu. That question is here.

Please clarify use of the CARRIERPU entry. There is a lot of confusion in the field.

A. As in all previous mail counts, there are two events that qualify for the credit provided using the
CARRIERPU (Hot Key 'O') entry; (1) Carrier Pickup notification and (2) acceptance of prepaid
parcel over 2 lbs. not associated with carrier pickup. If both events are performed at the same
address, CARRIERPU is used only once. Carriers are not required to go to the customer’s door to
collect mail for any reason other than a carrier pickup request, which should include at least one
qualifying piece (Priority Mail Express, Priority Mail, First-Class Package Service, Priority Mail
Express International, Global Express Guaranteed, Priority Mail International, Returns (USPS
Return Service: First Class Package Return Service, Priority Mail Return Service and Ground
Returns; Parcel Return Service; and Merchandise Return Service), Parcel Select Ground, USPS
Retail Ground, and other packages.) The CARRIERPU entry will be made even if the official pickup
request results in no qualifying pieces being collected. The MDD is being updated to accept "0" as
the number of pieces accepted.
In those instances when management directs the rural carrier to accept/collect these items, or the
customer leaves a note in the mailbox requesting such service, or where there is an understanding
between management and the carrier that a specific customer has a standing order to have items
collected each day or on specific days, the route will be credited by using the CARRIERPU entry.
Each event will be recorded using the CARRIERPU entry. The number of pieces collected is then
counted and entered. Count and enter each mail piece that qualifies in accordance with the list
above and any Prepaid Parcels over 2 lbs. Other mail pieces accepted/collected at this time, such
as obvious letter and flat-size mail, including small parcels, should not be included in this count.
The carrier will then scan the first 5 qualifying mail pieces collected. If a Customer Manifest (Form
5630) is presented, the carrier should scan that form using the Pre-Paid Acceptance Scan in the
on-street menu. The MDD is also being updated to allow for a CARRIERPU entry even when no
parcels accepted have barcodes.
If the carrier is instructed to scan more than 5 parcels accepted as part of a Carrier Pick Up, the
Pre-Paid Acceptance scan should also be used for all parcels beyond the first 5.
When mail pieces with a barcode are collected on the route out of a mailbox or collection box, the
Pre-Paid Acceptance scan should be used.
Reference: Letter of Mutual Understanding 2-24-14; and Publication 399, February 2019, p. 30.

How does the union assume we weigh parcels at pickup on the street to verify the 2lb limit? What is a prepaid parcel if its something that isnt on that list? Same with the sacks(containers?) of parcels if we have to scan them shouldn't RRECS credit apply? My interpterion of the 2013 603 sack part is back then only priority mail had tracking thus automatically got credit for each item and a prepaid items(items mailed using prepaid postage stamps) would receive credit if over 2lbs of if under 2lbs if multiple were together in a sack. Maybe there is an ancient MOU or 1980s or 90s arbitration that covers this.

 

[U caught my attention]

This is my understanding after reading The Guide. The engineers broke down our actions for specific tasks and gave those tasks a time standard. Pages 79 thru 81 describe the actions we are to perform and the time standards credited to routes during a parcel pick up.

I showed them that but they said since the rrecs system is from the union it doesn't apply.

Page 9 of The Guide.

3. DEFINING DELIVERY ROUTE ACTIVITIES
The methodology used here for developing
standard times for delivery routes is based on the
following guidelines:
1. The pace required is that of an experienced
and motivated worker of normal skill and
ability, working at a normal daywork pace.
2. Each activity will be performed using a
specified standard method.
3. The standard methods will satisfy all USPS
policies and safety requirements.
4. The route can be reasonably approximated
by a set of defined activities pe

My particular understanding is these pick up standards were not negotiated, but I could be wrong. I will look better later. Wouldnt an unredacted final determination be so helpful to us all.

 

[Rt2mailman]

Your manager is using 2 different accredited methods to arrive at their "Rule" for pickups. They are picking the old count method for determining that containers count as one and the Rrecs method that they must be scanned.
The real problem is the USPS hasn't redone the PO 603 to contain all the new wording for the Rrecs methods of pay.
I say, fine, I will play that way also. Each tub "required" to be brought to the customer door is an "Unscanned parcel". Upon delivering empty tubs, each 2 tubs require an "Additional trip to the door", and each tub picked up is an "Additional trip to door". Technically we can not be required to bring empty tubs out to customers, if they need them, they can come and get them. The reason is because in some POV offices the space required for empty tubs would require 2nd trips to those customers which the Usps is not willing to pay.
Between unscanned parcels and Additional trips to the door, you can make up and add to your evaluation more than the 9.5 seconds/pickup that your pm is taking from you.

 

[Augsburg]

Its not worth filing a grievance.

You only get 1.3 seconds (0.0223 minutes)
for each additional scan.

Let's say you win a grievance for missing let's say 100 packages 2.5 minutes.. what is that 2 stamps?

Also, under return2du, carefully scan all of the package pickups as prepaid acceptance, then carefully and gently place them one by one in the outgoing gaylord.

As far as 2nd trips...Leave the postal equipment in the car take as many trips to the door as needed. They can't penpoint what address you punched them in at. When asked just say "trips at what address? I took trips at different places", "it sounds like your fishing for discipline, I'm going to need representation" . Make sure you have this conversation under loadtruck or return2du. Do not stop those functions when management interrupts your work. The only time I talk to management is under loadtruck or return2du.

I'm never going to stop management from giving me more money. Y'all do what you want. But you can definitely tell when advice comes from carriers vs "people who carried"

 

[U caught my attention]

Its not worth filing a grievance.

You only get 1.3 seconds (0.0223 minutes)
for each additional scan.

Wait, you are missing the initial piece count
Pg 80 in The Guide

"The CARRIERPU entry on the MDD is used to indicate a carrier pick up event and to indicate the total number of pieces collected."


"S046 (carrier pick up and prepaid items) is credited at 0.1592 minutes or 9.55 seconds per piece and includes the following tasks:
1. The carrier will visually inspect each item- weight, labeling and postage, etc
2. The carrier will then scan each item's barcode. (S70 or S071 credited as appropriate)
There's more but I dont feel like posting it all. Just go in and read it for yourselves.

 

[U caught my attention]

The standard was engineered.

There is a document that was submitted to the Postal regulatory commission
docket RM2024-2.
The Bradley report.

Around Pg 18 discusses how the standards were derived.
Pg 52 - 56 discusses package pick ups.

This study calculated the rural carrier product costs arising under the new evaluation system. Very interesting read after reading The Guide.