Confused on pm casing

[peggymailady]

I have been "talked.to" about all these.second trips that I have had.to take due to the enormous size.of these amazon packages being dropped.on my route. The PM is going to request.that I purchase.a larger vehicle. I just purchased a 2024 4 dr right hand drive.jeep. So that would be a straight out "no". I have also found that other carriers have been given parcel help, but when I ask for help, he says that he doesn't have any extra help to give me. I have been going over evaluation because if these second trips. Is that not what pm casing is for? Does.it not stop the clock? Do these extra trips count as part of the evaluated hours for the day? I always do these second runs under pm casing. I think this is a form of retaliation.because I don't care to file grievances on this PM . Thanks as usual for the help.

 

[EthelAnne]

I have been going over evaluation because if these second trips. Is that not what pm casing is for? Does.it not stop the clock? Do these extra trips count as part of the evaluated hours for the day? I always do these second runs under pm casing.

PM casing “stops the clock” on your End of Shift time (which is calculated as actual time added to our evaluation) but it doesn’t “stop the clock” on your work day. All the hours between CLOCKIN to CLOCKOUT count as work hours.

I think this is a form of retaliation.because I don't care to file grievances on this PM .

I don’t follow. Why would you believe you’re being retaliated against for *not* filing grievances? Unless that’s a typo …

If other carriers are receiving assistance and you’re not, document the dates and times, and talk to your steward about filling a grievance for disparate treatment. Also, not sure how old you are, but there is a provision in the PO-603 that protects carriers 55 years or older from corrective action for failing to meet their route evaluations, as long as they can complete the route under 48 weekly hours.

ETA: corrections to weekly hours, and where this information is found.

 

[neciat]

There is a pre-arb settlement , C95R-4C-C 98023318 , that has language regarding excessive trips.

 

[Rt2mailman]

Our union has determined that the USPS can not require a larger vehicle to be bought for a route, if a normal Jeep Cherokee or Subaru are being used. No documentation, but this has been fought and won. Make sure to leave the parcels for the farthest out part of your route. That way you make the most $ on those 2nd trips. $ is the only reason the USPS changes anything. Using this method WILL help your manager "find" that extra help for you.

 

[hockey94]

I have been "talked.to" about all these.second trips that I have had.to take due to the enormous size.of these amazon packages being dropped.on my route. The PM is going to request.that I purchase.a larger vehicle. I just purchased a 2024 4 dr right hand drive.jeep. So that would be a straight out "no". I have also found that other carriers have been given parcel help, but when I ask for help, he says that he doesn't have any extra help to give me. I have been going over evaluation because if these second trips. Is that not what pm casing is for? Does.it not stop the clock? Do these extra trips count as part of the evaluated hours for the day? I always do these second runs under pm casing. I think this is a form of retaliation.because I don't care to file grievances on this PM . Thanks as usual for the help.

Regarding your vehicle, I had a 4 door, RHD wrangler, my a$&(hole pm said I needed to get a larger vehicle. I could have fit more packages, but, that would have blocked some of the windows, no way, I was jeopardizing my safety for a case of TP etc… I also said to the PM, what about the LLV routes that cannot fit all the packages, will the PO provide bigger govt vehicles ?? END of conversation !! Good luck !

 

[FirstclassPITA]

Seriously you car is fine it is the p.o that is the issue. Your p.m is a turd and would rather fight you because they are too spineless to stand up to their boss. The wording says something to the effect of a larger vehicle OR a route cut. Since the vehicle can't be larger, looks like a cut is the only option. But that would require the p.m actually having to push back. Without a spine that is difficult. Ask them what is to be done. Put the ownership of the problem on them as it should be. Okay fine i agree too many second trips. What sort of vehicle do you recommend? Honestly?

Our office never did second trips. It was so bad during covid with customer complaints the oig came and did a whole investigation. Their solution? Every route wound up with a government vehicle as that was what we all told the inspectors. The volume we had we would have had to make 3 trips. There just weren't enough hours in the day. We "failed" but because the issue was brought to light we actually got a solution. The p.ms that constantly bend over to appease their pooms don't realize they are the cause of their problems.

 

[peggymailady]

PM casing “stops the clock” on your End of Shift time (which is calculated as actual time added to our evaluation) but it doesn’t “stop the clock” on your work day. All the hours between CLOCKIN to CLOCKOUT count as work hours.

I don’t follow. Why would you believe you’re being retaliated against for *not* filing grievances? Unless that’s a typo …

If other carriers are receiving assistance and you’re not, document the dates and times, and talk to your steward about filling a grievance for disparate treatment. Also, not sure how old you are, but there is a provision in the contract that protects carriers 55 years or older from corrective action for failing to meet their route evaluations, as long as they can complete the route under 56 hours.

When I said "I don't care to file grievances " it means that I do file grievances when noone else will in this office. They are all afraid of retaliation. I am over 55 so I will look for that clause in our contract. Thank you!

 

[peggymailady]

Seriously you car is fine it is the p.o that is the issue. Your p.m is a turd and would rather fight you because they are too spineless to stand up to their boss. The wording says something to the effect of a larger vehicle OR a route cut. Since the vehicle can't be larger, looks like a cut is the only option. But that would require the p.m actually having to push back. Without a spine that is difficult. Ask them what is to be done. Put the ownership of the problem on them as it should be. Okay fine i agree too many second trips. What sort of vehicle do you recommend? Honestly?

Our office never did second trips. It was so bad during covid with customer complaints the oig came and did a whole investigation. Their solution? Every route wound up with a government vehicle as that was what we all told the inspectors. The volume we had we would have had to make 3 trips. There just weren't enough hours in the day. We "failed" but because the issue was brought to light we actually got a solution. The p.ms that constantly bend over to appease their pooms don't realize they are the cause of their problems.

Thanks! Amazon has turned delivering over to me again and I am having package numbers like I e perienced at . Christmas. Guess.I should contact the OIG.

 

[EthelAnne]

When I said "I don't care to file grievances " it means that I do file grievances when noone else will in this office. They are all afraid of retaliation. I am over 55 so I will look for that clause in our contract. Thank you!

Sorry, it's not the contract. It's in the PO-603, Section 151.12, and it's 48 weekly hours:
"If the weekly time required to serve the route consistently varies more than
three hours, either below or in excess of the route’s standard hours, managers should consider corrective action. Exceptions may be made for carriers 55 years of age or older, and carriers who have served continuously for 25 years or more, provided that their conduct and efficiency are satisfactory. When it is demonstrated that a carrier 55 or over cannot confine total working time to 48 hours per week or less, the route will be adjusted."

 

[peggymailady]

Regarding your vehicle, I had a 4 door, RHD wrangler, my a$&(hole pm said I needed to get a larger vehicle. I could have fit more packages, but, that would have blocked some of the windows, no way, I was jeopardizing my safety for a case of TP etc… I also said to the PM, what about the LLV routes that cannot fit all the packages, will the PO provide bigger govt vehicles ?? END of conversation !! Good luck !

Thanks I will need the luck. The PM will call extra help in for the city carriers, not us rurals.This PM just needs to go!

 

[peggymailady]

Sorry, it's not the contract. It's in the PO-603, Section 151.12, and it's 48 weekly hours:
"If the weekly time required to serve the route consistently varies more than
three hours, either below or in excess of the route’s standard hours, managers should consider corrective action. Exceptions may be made for carriers 55 years of age or older, and carriers who have served continuously for 25 years or more, provided that their conduct and efficiency are satisfactory. When it is demonstrated that a carrier 55 or over cannot confine total working time to 48 hours per week or less, the route will be adjusted."

Thanks! I have worked for 25 years, 15 were sub years.I have asked for my route to be adjusted. Pm is just trying to get rid of me but I'm too stubborn to leave.

 

[peggymailady]

Thanks! I have worked for 25 years, 15 were sub years.I have asked for my route to be adjusted. Pm is just trying to get rid of me but I'm too stubborn to leave.

I am looking at the 603, what page?

 

[peggymailady]

I am looking at the 603, what page?

Sorry found it. Just been so upset over all of this.

 

[peggymailady]

There is a pre-arb settlement , C95R-4C-C 98023318 , that has language regarding excessive trips.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

 

[RammerJammer]

Sorry, it's not the contract. It's in the PO-603, Section 151.12, and it's 48 weekly hours:
"If the weekly time required to serve the route consistently varies more than
three hours, either below or in excess of the route’s standard hours, managers should consider corrective action. Exceptions may be made for carriers 55 years of age or older, and carriers who have served continuously for 25 years or more, provided that their conduct and efficiency are satisfactory. When it is demonstrated that a carrier 55 or over cannot confine total working time to 48 hours per week or less, the route will be adjusted."

I can’t for the life of me have ever figured out their reasoning for including the language “either below” the route’s standard hours. Like they have ever or would add to your route because they can’t stand your undertime; ie, running that 48K in 25 hours/week.

 

[neciat]

Regarding your vehicle, I had a 4 door, RHD wrangler, my a$&(hole pm said I needed to get a larger vehicle. I could have fit more packages, but, that would have blocked some of the windows, no way, I was jeopardizing my safety for a case of TP etc… I also said to the PM, what about the LLV routes that cannot fit all the packages, will the PO provide bigger govt vehicles ?? END of conversation !! Good luck !

You beat me to it !!! There certainly ARE plenty of Govt. Vehicle routes performing additional trips on a regular basis.

 

[neciat]

@peggymailady I don't know what the standard hours are for the route which you serve but you could "fall" under the definition of an overburdened route. From The Nat'l Agreement ;

8. Overburdened Routes

a. Definition

A route is considered overburdened when:

(1) The standard hours for the route are outside
of the Table of Evaluated Hours; or

(2) The regular rural carrier who is assigned to
the route does not, or is not expected to, meet
the requirement to stay within the annual
guarantee for the route.

If you meet EITHER of the two above , there is this that follows ;

b. Relief of Overburdened Routes

Permanent relief will be arranged as soon as prac-
ticable for overburdened routes. Auxiliary assis-
tance may be provided as a temporary means of
providing relief for those routes as defined in
8.a.(1). Assistance is provided, equivalent to the
lesser of the following:
(1) The regular rural carrier’s actual weekly work
hours that are in excess of 48 hours (K
classification); or
(2) The standard hours for the route that are in
excess of 57:36

You'll note that it states relief WILL BE arranged.

 

[oi veh.]

When I said "I don't care to file grievances " it means that I do file grievances when noone else will in this office. They are all afraid of retaliation. I am over 55 so I will look for that clause in our contract. Thank you!

you are applachian-american, right?

i understood you.

 

[ATCBigE]

Regarding your vehicle, I had a 4 door, RHD wrangler, my a$&(hole pm said I needed to get a larger vehicle. I could have fit more packages, but, that would have blocked some of the windows, no way, I was jeopardizing my safety for a case of TP etc… I also said to the PM, what about the LLV routes that cannot fit all the packages, will the PO provide bigger govt vehicles ?? END of conversation !! Good luck !

That's always my favorite thing they yell at me.

I told PM if they want to provide me with bigger vehicle they can, but after losing almost 9K in 2 years, I can't afford a vehicle.

PLUS BLAME MY !!$#$ING PLANT. They are the reason I would say 90% of the time I have to take multiple trips. Dump everything in 1 day. Then rest of the week I could drive a GEO METRO and could fit it all in. That's how my week looks for 48 weeks of the year.

 

[Old Fart]

I have been "talked.to" about all these.second trips that I have had.to take due to the enormous size.of these amazon packages being dropped.on my route. The PM is going to request.that I purchase.a larger vehicle. I just purchased a 2024 4 dr right hand drive.jeep. So that would be a straight out "no". I have also found that other carriers have been given parcel help, but when I ask for help, he says that he doesn't have any extra help to give me. I have been going over evaluation because if these second trips. Is that not what pm casing is for? Does.it not stop the clock? Do these extra trips count as part of the evaluated hours for the day? I always do these second runs under pm casing. I think this is a form of retaliation.because I don't care to file grievances on this PM . Thanks as usual for the help.

Contact your DR. You're being treated differently and file the grievance if your union representative advises such.

Your vehicle is consistent with USPS requirements for a POV so that's not an issue. Don't even respond.