Excessive load time?

[jbpowers1965]

1. What is the definition of excessive load time my average is between 32 and 36 minutes.
When I was on sick leave for shoulder surgery, my sub worked a total of 76 days

Pulled the data, the load time for the sub
Was 56 days as 0
Say I can’t dispute the count cuz I had excessive load time
What can I do?
2. The next mms uses data from end of count from sept of last year to end of count in sept? Correct?

 

[ATCBigE]

1. What is the definition of excessive load time my average is between 32 and 36 minutes.
When I was on sick leave for shoulder surgery, my sub worked a total of 76 days

Pulled the data, the load time for the sub
Was 56 days as 0
Say I can’t dispute the count cuz I had excessive load time
What can I do?
2. The next mms uses data from end of count from sept of last year to end of count in sept? Correct?

Excessive? Tell them to prove it. There is no set standard for excessive. Anytime they claim i was excessive management would watch and tell he is doing nothing wrong.

2. Yes next count will be Sept to sept

 

[neciat]

That term "excessive" strongly implies that there is a predetermined or established number / threshold upon which , if exceeded, put you over that set number. According to the MOU, you CAN dispute this. From that MOU in part ; " The parties agree that a carrier may dispute the following : An entry of zero (0) or a questionable number in any data field on PS Form 4241-A that would otherwise expect to have a time credit."

Management was well aware that there was no loading time for 56 days and apparently did / said nothing to the RCA. This also equates to working off the clock . There are many a citation regarding benchmarking and actual time for duties performed. Get your dispute submitted and if and / or when the union tells you this is not an issue to be disputed, file a grievance.

https://ruralinfo.net/shared-files/104116959/?rredp-mou-3.24.2025.pdf

 

[ATCBigE]

That term "excessive" strongly implies that there is a predetermined or established number / threshold upon which , if exceeded, put you over that set number. According to the MOU, you CAN dispute this. From that MOU in part ; " The parties agree that a carrier may dispute the following : An entry of zero (0) or a questionable number in any data field on PS Form 4241-A that would otherwise expect to have a time credit."

Management was well aware that there was no loading time for 56 days and apparently did / said nothing to the RCA. This also equates to working off the clock . There are many a citation regarding benchmarking and actual time for duties performed. Get your dispute submitted and if and / or when the union tells you this is not an issue to be disputed, file a grievance.

https://ruralinfo.net/shared-files/104116959/?rredp-mou-3.24.2025.pdf

Yes and that is the biggest issue with RRECS. This is somehow excessive, but IF SOMEONE DOES NOTHING, NO BIG DEAL!!!!

I also know if they think you are loading excessively like they said I was, I was watched by management, and told he did nothing wrong. Still get put on the list, the more the harass me about it, the longer and slower it will take for me....

 

[mail1000]

1. What is the definition of excessive load time my average is between 32 and 36 minutes.
When I was on sick leave for shoulder surgery, my sub worked a total of 76 days

Pulled the data, the load time for the sub
Was 56 days as 0
Say I can’t dispute the count cuz I had excessive load time
What can I do?
2. The next mms uses data from end of count from sept of last year to end of count in sept? Correct?

Unbelievable...ZERO for 56 days? That will kill an average...my question is how come they can say (mostly regulars) have excessive load times yet when subs or anyone other than the regular has numbers like this nothing is said or done...for 56 days? How is that even possible...you have to hit loadvehicle before you can do anything else...This is a perfect example of why the stress is unreal with this RRECS whenever a regular carrier of any route takes off for any reason...ANYTIME ANYONE OTHER THAN THE REGULAR CARRIER OF A ROUTE IS OFF FOR ANY REASON-THE RRECS DATA AND SCANS SHOULD NOT COUNT...Something needs to be done about this and should have been from the very beginning of the implementation of RRECS.

 

[neciat]

Unbelievable...ZERO for 56 days? That will kill an average...my question is how come they can say (mostly regulars) have excessive load times yet when subs or anyone other than the regular has numbers like this nothing is said or done...for 56 days? How is that even possible...you have to hit loadvehicle before you can do anything else...This is a perfect example of why the stress is unreal with this RRECS whenever a regular carrier of any route takes off for any reason...ANYTIME ANYONE OTHER THAN THE REGULAR CARRIER OF A ROUTE IS OFF FOR ANY REASON-THE RRECS DATA AND SCANS SHOULD NOT COUNT...Something needs to be done about this and should have been from the very beginning of the implementation of RRECS.

Yes, it is. All kinds of failures in this scenario. Not in any particular order but we have this ; management either NOT reviewing carrier's RRECS scans or noticing this and NOT saying something , could have been scanner issues but I doubt that would have been limited to loading only and for 56 days at that , RCA just flat out NOT performing the scans , then we have this from a Q&A from the union ;

88. What happens if loading time is not recorded on a particular day?

The Engineering Panel mandated that all missing data be replaced with the daily
average recorded for the route. In this case, the zero loading time would be
replaced with the average daily loading time calculated during the year.

And........................here's another from ANOTHER revised Q & A ;

208. What happens if loading time is not recorded on a particular day?

A. The Engineering Panel mandated that all missing data be replaced with the daily average recorded for
the route. In this case, the zero-loading time would be replaced with the average daily loading time
calculated during the year

So, in addition to the above possible failures, the system itself isn't functioning the way we were told. @jbpowers1965 stated a 32 to 36 minute average for loading. Okay, we'll go with just a 30 minute average. That is 3 hours for the week in actual time.

 

[afk tornado]

We have carriers who have 45 minutes per day and higher load times and it doesn't seem to raise any red flags. But if you have more than a couple unscannable parcels? Lucy you got some 'splainin' to do. The difference in what districts think is important varies wildly.

 

[Dominator]

I wonder if grieving for insufficient load time could be attributed to a failed marketing campaign.

 

[Rt2mailman]

Start load and,end load are one of the 6 required scans, therefore grieve that your manager was failing to do his job and make sure the required scans were being made.
The question should be something like this: " Can management fail to direct my Rca to make the required scans every day, lowering my evaluation due to this failure?"
The remedy should read like," Carrier's route evaluation to be corrected such that carrier is made whole for management's 56 days of failure to require 2 of the 6 required scans."

 

[mail1000]

We have carriers who have 45 minutes per day and higher load times and it doesn't seem to raise any red flags. But if you have more than a couple unscannable parcels? Lucy you got some 'splainin' to do. The difference in what districts think is important varies wildly.

well said...it should not be that way-we all work for the same company and the same rules should apply in every district and nationwide. RRECS has been and will continue to be a nightmare for all of us the rural craft. We should not have to deal with the daily stress of LOSING money and when you take off stressing about whomever is covering your route them doing the proper scans and procedures...who wants to work years at a place and there salary DECREASE instead of increase?

 

[neciat]

The difference in what districts think is important varies wildly.

Not really. What they do is rotate the benchmarking. In your District THIS WEEK it will be loading time while in another District but the SAME WEEK it will be unscanned parcels and in ANOTHER District the SAME WEEK it will be authorized dismounts. Then, they "hand off" the benchmarking amongst themselves and THIS WEEK your District is all over unscanned parcels and so on and so on. It's always the same categories but the Districts just rotate / shift the categories Nationwide every few weeks to intimidate carriers into thinking , " man , they are watching my loading time, EOS time, unscanned parcels, authorized dismounts, etc. " so that carriers will harm themselves to "stay off of some bogus list" or fear of discipline which would more than likely NEVER stick unless someone was outright cheating but is still a hassle having to deal with the union and having that whole situation hanging over your head while you are trying to just do your job.

 

[Dominator]

Hey @neciat , are you up for a game of "bougus list" bingo?

A while back, I was on a list for having "excessive postage dues".

That made for an interesting discussion.

Here we are now with pension funding issues. Imagine that.

 

[neciat]

Hey @neciat , are you up for a game of "bougus list" bingo?

That's a good one for sure !!!! " Under the "U" for unscanned parcels. " " E..........15.............E as in excessive loading time." I did start Postal Jeopardy in my office decades ago. " I'll take Postal Reform for $200.00 " "Implemented in the latter part of the 20th century, this form of letter mail led to devastating time and monetary losses for the rural craft" " What is DPS mail ?" " Postal Reform for $400.00 please. " " Referred to as the ONE BUNDLE system even when you take your DPS to the street ........." BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , "neciat" , " How many bundles in a one bundle system ?"

 

[jsthere723]

Start load and,end load are one of the 6 required scans, therefore grieve that your manager was failing to do his job and make sure the required scans were being made.
The question should be something like this: " Can management fail to direct my Rca to make the required scans every day, lowering my evaluation due to this failure?"
The remedy should read like," Carrier's route evaluation to be corrected such that carrier is made whole for management's 56 days of failure to require 2 of the 6 required scans."

To the point detailed . But I have a nagging feeling ( not sure though ) that this sub might have scanned all the required 6 scan but all in rapid succession. I have seen it happening. In a case like that what’s the remedy?

 

[Rt2mailman]

Still the same grievance. Management is to direct and train employees. It is their job to notice irregularities that are not possible. Mail and parcels take some time, zero is not possible. Management does take notice when we make "excessive" unscanned parcel scans. That tells us they are looking for irregularities. If they only look for the ones that add to the USPS bottom line, that is disparate treatment.
Many of us carriers complain about our subs for not adding to our evaluations, and often times rightly so.
However, many of the "errors" should have been noticed/caught by managers and corrected.
In our office we were able to show our Rcas, early on, that lack of doing ALL they could to help our evaluations, also hurts them. One Rca's assigned route went to a J route after not caring what or if he scanned. He admitted it to all other Rca's and explained how they aren't just hourly paid in all instances. He also explained how he participated in the lowering of his assigned route's evaluation including one day less of work for him every other week.
Now our Rcas beat most of their regulars in scans and mini counts.

 

[Old Fart]

Yes, it is. All kinds of failures in this scenario. Not in any particular order but we have this ; management either NOT reviewing carrier's RRECS scans or noticing this and NOT saying something , could have been scanner issues but I doubt that would have been limited to loading only and for 56 days at that , RCA just flat out NOT performing the scans , then we have this from a Q&A from the union ;

88. What happens if loading time is not recorded on a particular day?

The Engineering Panel mandated that all missing data be replaced with the daily
average recorded for the route. In this case, the zero loading time would be
replaced with the average daily loading time calculated during the year.

And........................here's another from ANOTHER revised Q & A ;

208. What happens if loading time is not recorded on a particular day?

A. The Engineering Panel mandated that all missing data be replaced with the daily average recorded for
the route. In this case, the zero-loading time would be replaced with the average daily loading time
calculated during the year

So, in addition to the above possible failures, the system itself isn't functioning the way we were told. @jbpowers1965 stated a 32 to 36 minute average for loading. Okay, we'll go with just a 30 minute average. That is 3 hours for the week in actual time.

We have actually used the average method for situations where the RCA knowingly refuses to properly work the route during evaluation period. Some of these components are difficult to discipline, so the best solution for the regular is to average the days without the sub.

I'd use this information above from @neciat along with your union DR to rectify this situation at the local level immediately.

 

[neciat]

A while back, I was on a list for having "excessive postage dues"

Hmmmmmm. Excessive revenue protection ?

 

[ATCBigE]

Hmmmmmm. Excessive revenue protection ?

Did the same to me. I sold 2 stamps on my route and got put on the list for excessive stamp sales. Few weeks later I sold 3 stamps. I watched in to office and went up to PM showed him the 3 letters says here's your telecon tomorrow so you know.

I tried to make the place money and got put on the list.

 

[Old Fart]

Not really. What they do is rotate the benchmarking. In your District THIS WEEK it will be loading time while in another District but the SAME WEEK it will be unscanned parcels and in ANOTHER District the SAME WEEK it will be authorized dismounts. Then, they "hand off" the benchmarking amongst themselves and THIS WEEK your District is all over unscanned parcels and so on and so on. It's always the same categories but the Districts just rotate / shift the categories Nationwide every few weeks to intimidate carriers into thinking , " man , they are watching my loading time, EOS time, unscanned parcels, authorized dismounts, etc. " so that carriers will harm themselves to "stay off of some bogus list" or fear of discipline which would more than likely NEVER stick unless someone was outright cheating but is still a hassle having to deal with the union and having that whole situation hanging over your head while you are trying to just do your job.

Correct!!

Our PM's share the "flavor of the month" with us, and openly indicate the other stuff isn't on the radar this week, so focus on the item that is so we stay off lists and they stay off telecons.

 

[oi veh.]

Correct!!

Our PM's share the "flavor of the month" with us, and openly indicate the other stuff isn't on the radar this week, so focus on the item that is so we stay off lists and they stay off telecons.

wow. you actually have humans in management!