Is management-authorized meeting time with a union representative, compensable?

[Dominator]

Today, a 3-chain link of union representatives (NRO DR ADR) has expressed to me that management-authorized meeting time with my union representative is not compensable.

I wholeheartedly disagree (via mainly F-21 §251), but since no source documentation was provided to me from the NRLCA, I have no idea what rules the NRLCA relied upon to come to this conclusion, if not just by unsupported fiat.

The union's argument is that union investigations are not mandatory meetings, therefore management is not required to compensate for it.

It appears (to me) like the chain has confused "meeting time" with "training time", but maybe I'm mistaken.

The union has consecutively withdrawn the past 5 or 6 of my grievances. While I suspect their pattern will continue with this one too, I'm still interested in reading arguments for either side.

 

[neciat]

I don't know about that. Article 17 ;

Section 4. Payment of Stewards

The Employer will authorize payment only under the following
conditions:

Grievances:

Steps 1 and 2 — One Union steward (only as permitted in
Section 2.A) for time actually spent in grievance handling,
including investigation and meetings with the Employer. The
Employer will also compensate a steward for the time reason-
ably necessary to write a grievance. The aggrieved will be
compensated (or provided equivalent auxiliary assistance) for
time actually spent discussing the dispute with their immediate
supervisor and for completing the employee portion of PS Form
8191 (if applicable) in accordance with Article 15.3 (Step 1) a.
Steward hours actually spent in grievance handling, including
investigation and meetings with the Employer, will be
recorded and accumulated. Upon the accumulation of eight
(8) hours, a Z day will be provided. On those occasions where
the steward will be unreasonably delayed, auxiliary assis-
tance will be provided the steward, and the hours will not be
recorded or accumulated.

 

[Shannonboy]

So Neciat....translate for me please....is that a YES, or NO, because I believe the answer should be YES...

 

[Dominator]

@neciat , I agree that stewards are paid for attending meetings. No dispute from me on that.

Article 17 (Stewards Rights) addresses the steward's compensation in what you've cited; section 4, Payment of Stewards, in addition to employee compensation for the common employee/management interactions involving grievances.

The union asserting that an employee is not compensated for participating in steward/employee interviews is a first for me. According to the rep, that's a conclusion from both the NRO and the DR.

Unfortunately, the NRO nor the DR provided the ADR with any documentation or support for the position. That being the case, I can't put any stock into the (unsupported) position presented.

 

[Dominator]

So Neciat....translate for me please....is that a YES, or NO, because I believe the answer should be YES...

That's one aspect of employee compensation related to grievances, but it does not address whether rural carriers are entitled to be compensated for the time involved in being interviewed by the union.

 

[really]

That's one aspect of employee compensation related to grievances, but it does not address whether rural carriers are entitled to be compensated for the time involved in being interviewed by the union.

I found this but the carrier was in off-duty status (that shouldn't matter)
The parties agree when management requires a rural carrier to attend a pre-disciplinary interview and the rural carrier asks to talk to a steward before the interview, reasonable time spent in such discussion is included in the compensable time referenced in the Step 4 agreement in case 195R-41-C98069816.
from 12-3-2015

 

[ABCya]

I seem to remember that a rural carrier initiating a grievance is compensated for that time. Im also pretty sure that an II by mgmt is compensated. Not sure on others, but Im leaning towards any mandatory meeting outside of normal work duties and meetings "built in", are compensated.

 

[ABCya]

Wow. How much my brain willingly dismisses work related issues from memory now that Im retired.

 

[Rt2mailman]

Everyone above may be mistakenly believing that we are all talking about compen̈nation for a local steward, when the union was inferring that any steward above the local steward is not compensated by the Usps, which is correct.
My interest is in what 5-6 grievances are being "Withdrawn" against a carrier's wishes? That should have a Nation labor board charge made against the union if the carrier doesn't feel they were properly represented.

 

[justacarrier]

There is a step 4 that does clearly state that "If management is requiring the rural carrier to attend the pre-disciplinary interview, the rural carrier is entitled to be compensated for the time involved." Now this is very specific and is tied to a PDI not just time spent talking to union representative. As far as compensation for time spent speaking to rep whether officially authorized or not I think it's a stretch.

 

[justacarrier]

Everyone above may be mistakenly believing that we are all talking about compen̈nation for a local steward, when the union was inferring that any steward above the local steward is not compensated by the Usps, which is correct.
My interest is in what 5-6 grievances are being "Withdrawn" against a carrier's wishes? That should have a Nation labor board charge made against the union if the carrier doesn't feel they were properly represented.

Many grievances get withdrawn. Mainly because they lack "merit" or basically, there is no actual violation of the contract or manuals. Any carrier has a right to file any grievance they want, you could file that you want the sky to be purple, but the union will withdraw a grievance that lack an actual violation of some sort. On occasions, a frivolous grievance can cause more harm than good!

 

[Shannonboy]

Wow. How much my brain willingly dismisses work related issues from memory now that Im retired.

I wanna try it......