Is management-authorized meeting time with a union representative, compensable?

[Dominator]

Today, a 3-chain link of union representatives (NRO DR ADR) has expressed to me that management-authorized meeting time with my union representative is not compensable.

I wholeheartedly disagree (via mainly F-21 §251), but since no source documentation was provided to me from the NRLCA, I have no idea what rules the NRLCA relied upon to come to this conclusion, if not just by unsupported fiat.

The union's argument is that union investigations are not mandatory meetings, therefore management is not required to compensate for it.

It appears (to me) like the chain has confused "meeting time" with "training time", but maybe I'm mistaken.

The union has consecutively withdrawn the past 5 or 6 of my grievances. While I suspect their pattern will continue with this one too, I'm still interested in reading arguments for either side.

 

[Dominator]

Maybe Title 5 of CFR ?

§ 551.424 Time spent adjusting grievances or performing representational functions.

(a) Time spent by an employee adjusting his or her grievance (or any appealable action) with an agency during the time the employee is required to be on the agency’s premises shall be considered hours of work.

Thank you. If the portion of 5 CFR you cited is not applicable, F-21 §251 recognizes it as hours worked. That premise is supported by at least by one source.

 

[Dominator]

Let me play devil’s advocate. I’m a rabble rouser who likes to stir the pot and file on anything I can think of. I frequently get the ire of management and have had way more than most IIs and issuances of discipline. Do I deserve to profit from my offenses?

I don't see how you are connecting initiating a grievance with profit. Work hours are just that. If they are compensable, so be it.

 

[Dominator]

i am a simple country woman...

but.

if management is APPROVING it, why is the union even voicing an opinion? my area would be saying take the money and run.

I'm not interested in and preemptively hope to stifle any surprise LOD that the union accidentally or "accidentally" mishandles. Historically, the union has enjoyed punishing me for being such a bad boy.

 

[Dominator]

Show me one document, decision, arbitration that states in any context that you should be compensated and I will support your point. It does not exist! Sometimes it's the lack of any "source" that is your answer. If it is not spelled out in the contract or a decision then it isn't something you would have any entitlement to.

While I'm interested in your argument, I'm indifferent to your support.

The extent of your argument matches the union's "nuh-uh". it's clear your contribution is circular. Are you certainly confident "it does not exist", or is that just your presumption?

If I could show you the "document, decision, or arbitration" you demand, this "ask a question" thread wouldn't likely exist now, would it?

Consider the origins of decisions; they've got to come from somewhere. They don't just manifest themselves.

 

[Rt2mailman]

I believe ALL of the grievances you listed above are legitimate, and i believe you would have "Just cause" in filing a National Labor charge against the union for failure to properly represented you.
As far as pay for "Metting time" spent with the employees' union rep i don't know of any specific compensation.
However, any time required for the steward to "Interview" the grievant is compensateable and found mentioned in steward Interview times.
I don't see why any "Meeting" couldn't be tied into an interview and all of that time be compensated.
On form 7020 this is found:
The special provisions for compensating PTFs, RCAs and RCRs are as follows:
 Steward time for a relief carrier should be recorded on PS Form 1234, Utility Card, and paid
via PS Form 1314‐A, Auxiliary Rural Carrier Time Certificate.
 Article 8.4 states, "Any employee scheduled to work and who does report for work shall be
guaranteed two (2) hours work or pay." PTFs, RCAs and RCRs serving as Local Steward
should confine time they allocate to steward business to days when they are scheduled to
perform other craft work. If this is not possible because of urgent Union business, then the
steward time should be accumulated and carried forward until a total of two hours or
more can be recorded for a given day.
So i believe that states they get paid for meeting time.