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Leave request response window.

BillyBoi

Member
The rcam states
B. Failure to return a request for leave within three (3) days of receipt will result in the request being automatically approved, provided the rural carrier has obtained a proper acknowledgement of the leave request submission.
Everyone seems to be under the impression that this means leave submitted within the time on the 5th gives management until the 8th to respond.
I think the current interpretation is wrong as it is ignoring that it says "within three (3) days of receipt"
The current interpretation I keep seeing states that submission day is "day 0". I argue this is wrong as this implies that the statement claims they have "72 hours" to respond but this is not what is written and language is important. If they wanted to give management 3 days to respond from the submission date then it would say "in three days of the day of receipt " or state a specific hour time frame from the submission time. Since I'm arguing language here is the definition of "within":

within /wĭᴛʜ-ĭn′, wĭth-/

adverb​

  1. In or into the inner part; inside

preposition​

  1. In the inner part or parts of; inside.
So, "within 3 days" means "inside of" 3 days, which implies that you are on day 1 when your submission is acknowledged/received within proper time on the current day. This does not mean they have 3 days from receipt because again the written language doesn't specifically mention from the receipt day because it is included within the 3 days.

I understand that logically people try to view a day as 72 hour blocks to imply they have 3 days from the submission date but the language specifically argues days and not hours. You cannot be halfway through a day and leave must be submitted before a deadline on the current day to be considered when you submit so you have to be in that first day. When a timeline specifies days or dates, the entire calendar day must be treated as a single, unbroken unit. The boundary line is the days/date itself, not a specific hour mark on a clock.

Because the interval is strictly limited to dates, the boundary works by counting whole days forward from your starting point:
  1. The Start Date (Today): This is the baseline date.
  2. The Interval: You count 3 distinct calendar dates after today.
  3. The Limit: Those 3 specific dates form the complete inside boundary.
Any action taken on any of those 3 specific dates is safely "within" the allowed group of days. Once the date changes to the 4th day, you have crossed the boundary line.

Thoughts? Does my argument make sense as to why everyone is interpreting this incorrectly based on how it is written?

EDIT: replied explaining why I'm right but wrong. 🙃
 
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So I'll save you all some time. I bounced this off of some AI and basically I'm 100% correct in my thought but wrong because of legal precedent.

Your argument makes perfect sense from a strict, literal standpoint. You are looking at the word "of" as a structural link that glues the 3-day window directly to the event, making the event day the immediate "Day 1." Under your interpretation. However, the reason the law and standard business practice do not separate them this way comes down to a universal legal rule called the "Exclusion of the First Day."

The Practical Rule: Day 0

In standard legal interpretation, courts uniformly treat "of" and "from" identically to prevent a massive practical problem: fractional days.
If you receive a package at 11:58 PM on a Monday, and Monday counts as Day 1 because it is "of receipt," you have effectively lost an entire day of your deadline in just two minutes. To make deadlines fair and predictable, the day of the event is almost always designated as Day 0.
  • The Event (Monday): Day 0 (Excluded from the 3 days)
  • Tuesday: Day 1
  • Wednesday: Day 2
  • Thursday: Day 3 (The Deadline)

The Legal Consensus
Because treating them differently would cause endless disputes over the exact hour an event occurred, statutory interpretation rules (like the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure) flatly state that when computing any time period measured in days, you exclude the day of the event that triggers the period.

Therefore, "of" is legally forced to behave exactly like "from.":rolleyes:




The takeaway here is never submit leave at the start of the day but to submit it electronically just before 5pm to prevent them from having extra time to deny your leave.
 
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What is proper acknowledgment of leave submission? Doesnt that part determine the beginning of the leave request process?
How do we receive proper acknowledgement to start this time frame?
 
So I'll save you all some time. I bounced this off of some AI and basically I'm 100% correct in my thought but wrong because of legal precedent.

Your argument makes perfect sense from a strict, literal standpoint. You are looking at the word "of" as a structural link that glues the 3-day window directly to the event, making the event day the immediate "Day 1." Under your interpretation. However, the reason the law and standard business practice do not separate them this way comes down to a universal legal rule called the "Exclusion of the First Day."

The Practical Rule: Day 0

In standard legal interpretation, courts uniformly treat "of" and "from" identically to prevent a massive practical problem: fractional days.
If you receive a package at 11:58 PM on a Monday, and Monday counts as Day 1 because it is "of receipt," you have effectively lost an entire day of your deadline in just two minutes. To make deadlines fair and predictable, the day of the event is almost always designated as Day 0.
  • The Event (Monday): Day 0 (Excluded from the 3 days)
  • Tuesday: Day 1
  • Wednesday: Day 2
  • Thursday: Day 3 (The Deadline)

The Legal Consensus
Because treating them differently would cause endless disputes over the exact hour an event occurred, statutory interpretation rules (like the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure) flatly state that when computing any time period measured in days, you exclude the day of the event that triggers the period.

Therefore, "of" is legally forced to behave exactly like "from.":rolleyes:




The takeaway here is never submit leave at the start of the day but to submit it electronically just before 5pm to prevent them from having extra time to deny your leave.
Well....it took you a little bit....but you got there. Dont EVER....and I mean EVER...give po mgmt more time to make LIFE difficult. This job is hard enough.without denied time off. I mean, we earn it, its ours, let us use it, unless it's an ABSOLUTE EMERGENCY. Really....its not that difficult people. Good job getting there buddy!🤠
 
What is proper acknowledgment of leave submission? Doesnt that part determine the beginning of the leave request process?
How do we receive proper acknowledgement to start this time frame?
if handing in person, the stupe or pm is to initial and sign indicating receipt. you are to receive a copy.

if doing online, your confirmation # is the acknowledgement. (just make sure to screenshot or print it)

which is why i do mine online. :devilish:
 
What is proper acknowledgment of leave submission? Doesnt that part determine the beginning of the leave request process?
How do we receive proper acknowledgement to start this time frame?
At the bottom right on the front of the 3971 and ABOVE the black bar , you'll see a box that has " Signature of Supervisor and Date Notified " . Management is to sign and date that area. This action DOES NOT approve or deny the leave but only acknowledges the receipt of the request. This is what is considered "proper acknowledgement of leave submission" .

 
If you do it online and get a confirmation number, then a week passes and they do not provide you the printout signed of your submission, and then they schedule you to work, what happens then?

Can't they just say they returned it to you as a denied leave request days ago. What does the carrier have to prove that their leave was approved? The confirmation number just shows that you submitted it.

We have this happening right now in our office. A carrier did it online and has the screenshot but management scheduled her anyway even though they provided nothing to her within the three days of receipt.
 
😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
That Carrier needs to get a backbone, or some balls, and take some names and kick some po mgmt butt....that right there is a slam dunk grievance. DO NOT LET PO MGMT DO THIS STUPID STUFF....give em some RURAL TRAINING, and teach those BASS-TURD po mgmt a lesson, Man...that ticks me off...I wouldnt put up with that for a second.😐😐😐😡😡😡🤠
 
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