Load Time - When does the timer start?
- Thread starter 20ANK17
- Start date
MiddleOfNowhere
Well-known member
ours has always been when the cart is loaded ready to roll out to the garage, time starts, and you push. time stops after cart is returned inside, and you are back at case.
blamethesub
Well-known member
Ours is similar to MON but just a bit different. Clock starts when you begin to move your loaded cart and ends when you've returned the cart and walked to the hot case.
20ANK17 -- "Load Time - When does the timer start? Does the timer start when you leave your case? or When you have everything pulled down and start loading your hamper/cart?"
-- That is something that should have been hammered out during the pre-count conferences / meetings. Of course, it has been awhile since the last count, so both sides probably forgot.
-- "M-O-N's" post pretty well covered it.
-- However - comma - pin manglement down on whether loading time ends when the buggy/gurney/pumpkin is brought back to the loading dock ( in our office ) or back to the case ( where one would be able to sign out on the 4240 )
-- Pages 25 and 26 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide cover Loading Time. Another - however - down load the mail guide and do a word search for "loading time" as it comes into play in several situations such as loading bundles, taking DPS Letters and Flats directly to the streets, etc.
-- Any loading time over 15 minutes requires an explanation. That may come into play for carriers using the "look ahead" app as they have to scan parcels while loading and toss the parcels into the areas ( 1-6 ) in the LLV ( if I understand the concept ). Apparently this new app over rides
-- You might want to use your own watch or smart phone for timing the loading process as counters who use their cell phone sometimes "accidentally" have had the timing function turn off while in their pocket or while chatting with someone while you are loading. Yes, you are allowed to do your own timing while loading.
-- If you have more than one buggy/gurney/pumpkin, they should all be loaded so when one is empty, return to the case area for the next one, etc while the loading timer continues.
-- That is something that should have been hammered out during the pre-count conferences / meetings. Of course, it has been awhile since the last count, so both sides probably forgot.
-- "M-O-N's" post pretty well covered it.
-- However - comma - pin manglement down on whether loading time ends when the buggy/gurney/pumpkin is brought back to the loading dock ( in our office ) or back to the case ( where one would be able to sign out on the 4240 )
-- Pages 25 and 26 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide cover Loading Time. Another - however - down load the mail guide and do a word search for "loading time" as it comes into play in several situations such as loading bundles, taking DPS Letters and Flats directly to the streets, etc.
-- Any loading time over 15 minutes requires an explanation. That may come into play for carriers using the "look ahead" app as they have to scan parcels while loading and toss the parcels into the areas ( 1-6 ) in the LLV ( if I understand the concept ). Apparently this new app over rides
-- You might want to use your own watch or smart phone for timing the loading process as counters who use their cell phone sometimes "accidentally" have had the timing function turn off while in their pocket or while chatting with someone while you are loading. Yes, you are allowed to do your own timing while loading.
-- If you have more than one buggy/gurney/pumpkin, they should all be loaded so when one is empty, return to the case area for the next one, etc while the loading timer continues.
Shafted
Well-known member
Please start timer on your phone when mgt starts theirs. We had a tyrant POOM who didn’t like our load times at the end of week one, and marched into office with a stopwatch to time us one day. He was caught putting it in his pocket, and stopping it periodically. Completely busted, yet no shame whatsoever.
I have a stopwatch that hangs around my neck - got it at Wally World.
Has stopped a lot of shenanigans right in its tracks.
Our loading time starts when the buggy starts rolling its wee wheels. Ends when back in its parking space.
Remember to keep it safe - do not overload your buggy. I keep all my mail level with the edge. It takes what it takes.
Has stopped a lot of shenanigans right in its tracks.
Our loading time starts when the buggy starts rolling its wee wheels. Ends when back in its parking space.
Remember to keep it safe - do not overload your buggy. I keep all my mail level with the edge. It takes what it takes.
sonofnothing
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Oi veh. said </strong>
I have a stopwatch that hangs around my neck - got it at Wally World.
Has stopped a lot of shenanigans right in its tracks. </blockquote>
The over 15 minute explanation.. What about those times when we are waiting in line to get out the back door. I haven't counted in this office, but I heard that management stops the clock while they are waiting. It may happen one or three times per week, at most. This is normal, year round, so should this not be counted and added to the 'explanation' part of the over 15 minutes?
I have a stopwatch that hangs around my neck - got it at Wally World.
Has stopped a lot of shenanigans right in its tracks. </blockquote>
The over 15 minute explanation.. What about those times when we are waiting in line to get out the back door. I haven't counted in this office, but I heard that management stops the clock while they are waiting. It may happen one or three times per week, at most. This is normal, year round, so should this not be counted and added to the 'explanation' part of the over 15 minutes?
dumbolehickfromms
New member
From the PO 603
16. Column 16 — Load Vehicle
Enter the time spent transferring mail from the carrier’s work area to the
vehicle. This time should include taking mail from the work area to the
vehicle, placing mail in the vehicle, and returning the equipment to a
designated location. Postmasters or supervisors must observe the
loading operation daily to ensure that carriers operate efficiently.
Include only the time required to place mail in gurneys or hampers in
loading time if mail cannot be placed in the conveyance during strap
out. In offices where the carrier does not normally withdraw all mail for
the route, the required final withdrawal from the designated distribution
case, or other equipment, will be accomplished in conjunction with the
loading operation, and the actual time required included in the loading
allowance. Do not include the time used for this function if the carrier
receives the withdrawal allowance. Loading time in excess of
15 minutes must be fully explained in the Comments section of
PS Form 4239. However, do not interpret the loading allowance to be a
minimum 15 minutes daily. The actual time shown for loading the
vehicle must not include time for arranging parcels in delivery
sequence; this is included in the time allowance for those items in
column 6.
16. Column 16 — Load Vehicle
Enter the time spent transferring mail from the carrier’s work area to the
vehicle. This time should include taking mail from the work area to the
vehicle, placing mail in the vehicle, and returning the equipment to a
designated location. Postmasters or supervisors must observe the
loading operation daily to ensure that carriers operate efficiently.
Include only the time required to place mail in gurneys or hampers in
loading time if mail cannot be placed in the conveyance during strap
out. In offices where the carrier does not normally withdraw all mail for
the route, the required final withdrawal from the designated distribution
case, or other equipment, will be accomplished in conjunction with the
loading operation, and the actual time required included in the loading
allowance. Do not include the time used for this function if the carrier
receives the withdrawal allowance. Loading time in excess of
15 minutes must be fully explained in the Comments section of
PS Form 4239. However, do not interpret the loading allowance to be a
minimum 15 minutes daily. The actual time shown for loading the
vehicle must not include time for arranging parcels in delivery
sequence; this is included in the time allowance for those items in
column 6.
dumbolehickfromms
New member
Also don't forget boxholders...... you get loading time for putting boxholders into the buggy
D-O-H-F-M -- "The actual time shown for loading the vehicle must not include time for arranging parcels in delivery sequence; this is included in the time allowance for those items in column 6."
-- Thanx for the reminder -- that's one of my real pet peeves during count. ( making the best use of the that "generous" 20 seconds of office time for parcels. )
-- Anyone know if the NRLCA and USPS has hammered out an agreement about tossing ( er, placing ) parcels in sections 1 to 6 of the LLV when using the "look ahead" app? ( I believe others have posted of having the clerks' scanning of parcels some how transferred to a carrier's scanner -- any one. All this came about long after I departed postal employment )
-- And if the M-38's ( Management of Rural Deliver Services ) sections have been addressed or are simply to be ignored?:
362 -- Loading -- The mail MUST be loaded in the vehicle in ORDER OF DELIVERY. It is ESSENTIAL that carriers maintain the delivery sequence of mail in the vehicle.
363 -- Mail Set Up -- in part -- Parcels MUST be aligned in delivery sequence in the vehicle convenient to the carrier. ( seems a carrier will need longer arms to reach sections 1 to 6 in the cargo area )
-- And let's not forget the PO-603's Section 262.1 - General - Load all mail in the vehicle so that it is IN SEQUENCE OF DELIVERY to ensure no time is lost on the route reaching for the proper bundles and parcels or containers.
-- Maybe manglement's plan is to have carriers pull away from the loading dock, stop somewhere enroute, then arrange parcels in delivery order. ( I know, don't give them any ideas! )
-- BTW -- Great tip from "Oi veh" -- don't overload the buggy/gurney/pumpkin -- might make for more trips, but doing it safely is what it is all about, right manglement? And yes, I have been guilty of having to look around parcels and mail trays to see where I was going. Even had dumped a load or two out in the parking lot -- there are better uses of time than picking up such disasters!
-- Thanx for the reminder -- that's one of my real pet peeves during count. ( making the best use of the that "generous" 20 seconds of office time for parcels. )
-- Anyone know if the NRLCA and USPS has hammered out an agreement about tossing ( er, placing ) parcels in sections 1 to 6 of the LLV when using the "look ahead" app? ( I believe others have posted of having the clerks' scanning of parcels some how transferred to a carrier's scanner -- any one. All this came about long after I departed postal employment )
-- And if the M-38's ( Management of Rural Deliver Services ) sections have been addressed or are simply to be ignored?:
362 -- Loading -- The mail MUST be loaded in the vehicle in ORDER OF DELIVERY. It is ESSENTIAL that carriers maintain the delivery sequence of mail in the vehicle.
363 -- Mail Set Up -- in part -- Parcels MUST be aligned in delivery sequence in the vehicle convenient to the carrier. ( seems a carrier will need longer arms to reach sections 1 to 6 in the cargo area )
-- And let's not forget the PO-603's Section 262.1 - General - Load all mail in the vehicle so that it is IN SEQUENCE OF DELIVERY to ensure no time is lost on the route reaching for the proper bundles and parcels or containers.
-- Maybe manglement's plan is to have carriers pull away from the loading dock, stop somewhere enroute, then arrange parcels in delivery order. ( I know, don't give them any ideas! )
-- BTW -- Great tip from "Oi veh" -- don't overload the buggy/gurney/pumpkin -- might make for more trips, but doing it safely is what it is all about, right manglement? And yes, I have been guilty of having to look around parcels and mail trays to see where I was going. Even had dumped a load or two out in the parking lot -- there are better uses of time than picking up such disasters!
We only have 3 small buggys in my office, and the clerk always has one, so I get to use 2, I will not overload as they always tip going out the door and I have claimed safety issue on them so many times it's not funny,, they keep redoing the door but nothing changes, just add more concrete that breaks away the next week.
This will be my first count in this office, so not sure how PM is going to handle it, I should be allowed to reload the carts on the clock/stop watch because its not my fault I don't have enough to get it all out the door in what they provide. I have asked for pumpkins, but we honestly don't have room for even one, guess we will see how it goes, it's not like I do anything different the rest of the year, so I should get credit.
This will be my first count in this office, so not sure how PM is going to handle it, I should be allowed to reload the carts on the clock/stop watch because its not my fault I don't have enough to get it all out the door in what they provide. I have asked for pumpkins, but we honestly don't have room for even one, guess we will see how it goes, it's not like I do anything different the rest of the year, so I should get credit.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
What ever time it takes is what you get,management cannot limit it to15 minutes, only explain the reasons for going over. If large parcels must be left on the floor until all the mail is loaded on/in the cart, then placing them on your cart before rolling out is part of loading. If you need to move your vehicle closer at load time , that time is also part of load time. Placing all empty carts where empty equipment is designated is also part of load time. It starts as soon as you can get it to start, and ends as late as as you can make it end.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Aux01 said </strong>
Just to verify RT2, Retrieving your vehicle is not a separate time , its all part of the loading time ? </blockquote>
If you MUST retrieve your vehicle to load due to limited parking or loading space then you do get moving your vehicle as part of loading time. Now if have a parking space that you can & do always load at then no you cannot move your vehicle to a closer space to load at. You do in count what you always do.
Just to verify RT2, Retrieving your vehicle is not a separate time , its all part of the loading time ? </blockquote>
If you MUST retrieve your vehicle to load due to limited parking or loading space then you do get moving your vehicle as part of loading time. Now if have a parking space that you can & do always load at then no you cannot move your vehicle to a closer space to load at. You do in count what you always do.
D.B.Cooper
Active member
Here's my question... say you push the cart out... decide, you need to scratch your whatever, because it itches... then you need to find your keys because obviously you need to unlock EACH door before you can load, then maybe you feel a sneeze coming on, so you gotta find your hanky, etc., etc... whatever... if all of that and loading your vehicle takes less than 15 minutes, then are we good??? No explanation required??? Or do you have to sit around and listen to somebody telling you that they're not gonna count your time for having to sneeze??? <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
What I've seen in the past, is they wanna shadow you and point out how you should be doing something faster, or otherwise trying to give you some dirty looks like they're in a hurry to get back in out of the cold, so can't you hurry it up some... can you take what you take, and if under 15 minutes, then they should just shut the hail up??? Or should they count all of the time you stand around not loading and listening to their suggestions??? <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
What I've seen in the past, is they wanna shadow you and point out how you should be doing something faster, or otherwise trying to give you some dirty looks like they're in a hurry to get back in out of the cold, so can't you hurry it up some... can you take what you take, and if under 15 minutes, then they should just shut the hail up??? Or should they count all of the time you stand around not loading and listening to their suggestions??? <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
D.B.Cooper -- That is an impressive list of "what if's". Obviously you have given considerable thought to it!
-- It would be up to the counter to stop the clock if it appeared the carrier ( not you, of course ) was using delaying tactics.
-- With any luck the counter is huddled out of sight and out of the cold wind and or snow, so does not know what your are doing while loading.
-- Per page 26 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide -- don't interpret the loading time allowance to be a minimum of 15 minutes daily. As manglement likes to say "It is what it is". Finish under 15 minutes, so be it. Just don't appear to be slowing down to use all of those 15 minutes.
"What I’ve seen in the past, is they wanna shadow you and point out how you should be doing something faster,"
-- In that case, stop what you are doing and face the counter so you can hear every little detail the counter wants to share or point out to you. The counter will probably be too busy talking to you that he / she will forget to stop the clock. In any case, you'll have your own timer for comparison.
-- It would be up to the counter to stop the clock if it appeared the carrier ( not you, of course ) was using delaying tactics.
-- With any luck the counter is huddled out of sight and out of the cold wind and or snow, so does not know what your are doing while loading.
-- Per page 26 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide -- don't interpret the loading time allowance to be a minimum of 15 minutes daily. As manglement likes to say "It is what it is". Finish under 15 minutes, so be it. Just don't appear to be slowing down to use all of those 15 minutes.
"What I’ve seen in the past, is they wanna shadow you and point out how you should be doing something faster,"
-- In that case, stop what you are doing and face the counter so you can hear every little detail the counter wants to share or point out to you. The counter will probably be too busy talking to you that he / she will forget to stop the clock. In any case, you'll have your own timer for comparison.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>btdtret said </strong>
D.B.Cooper -- That is an impressive list of "what if's". Obviously you have given considerable thought to it!
-- It would be up to the counter to stop the clock if it appeared the carrier ( not you, of course ) was using delaying tactics.
-- With any luck the counter is huddled out of sight and out of the cold wind and or snow, so does not know what your are doing while loading.
-- Per page 26 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide -- don't interpret the loading time allowance to be a minimum of 15 minutes daily. As manglement likes to say "It is what it is". Finish under 15 minutes, so be it. Just don't appear to be slowing down to use all of those 15 minutes.
"What I’ve seen in the past, is they wanna shadow you and point out how you should be doing something faster,"
-- In that case, stop what you are doing and face the counter so you can hear every little detail the counter wants to share or point out to you. The counter will probably be too busy talking to you that he / she will forget to stop the clock. In any case, you'll have your own timer for comparison. </blockquote>
WOW! So glad our counters usually watch from afar for a few days (maybe) and then it's... "Hey you. Can you time me while I load?" Which is yelled across the building. "Sure. Just yell when your ready." Not that they can even see you on the other side of the rows of cases, but you yell & go. When your done, you yell "OK... I'm done". I always time myself just in case they forget why a stopwatch is running. ?
D.B.Cooper -- That is an impressive list of "what if's". Obviously you have given considerable thought to it!
-- It would be up to the counter to stop the clock if it appeared the carrier ( not you, of course ) was using delaying tactics.
-- With any luck the counter is huddled out of sight and out of the cold wind and or snow, so does not know what your are doing while loading.
-- Per page 26 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide -- don't interpret the loading time allowance to be a minimum of 15 minutes daily. As manglement likes to say "It is what it is". Finish under 15 minutes, so be it. Just don't appear to be slowing down to use all of those 15 minutes.
"What I’ve seen in the past, is they wanna shadow you and point out how you should be doing something faster,"
-- In that case, stop what you are doing and face the counter so you can hear every little detail the counter wants to share or point out to you. The counter will probably be too busy talking to you that he / she will forget to stop the clock. In any case, you'll have your own timer for comparison. </blockquote>
WOW! So glad our counters usually watch from afar for a few days (maybe) and then it's... "Hey you. Can you time me while I load?" Which is yelled across the building. "Sure. Just yell when your ready." Not that they can even see you on the other side of the rows of cases, but you yell & go. When your done, you yell "OK... I'm done". I always time myself just in case they forget why a stopwatch is running. ?
D.B.Cooper
Active member
I've seen it done all sorts of ways... start the watch and roll, and then yell I'm back when you get done... then I've had them shadow me, and have that impatient look on their face, like I'm not going fast enuf to suit them... and so I'm not sure what I'm in store for this go 'round... I guess we'll see... I was actually hoping to skip the entire BS crooked mess, but apparently that wasn't in the cards... maybe I can make them wish they had agreed to the opt out by the time it is all said and done... <img title="Wink" alt="Wink" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif" />
