LWOP

[mariomail]

New thing at the (my) PO. apparently the PM now tells the supervisors if anyone calls out you are LWOP no matter what. OR in my case LWOP me on an approved annual leave day. ALSO decided somehow to give me leave rather than a code 5 on K day even though I worked that day - how does that work?

This is happening to several people in the office or perhaps more that I don't know about. Supervisor told one person they can no longer make adjustments. So according to this supervisor (who isn't very smart) if they make a mistake its just too bad you just don't get paid Why are these people so stupid that work in management on this job and why do we have to deal with such things? Do they even realize they are federal employees representing the federal government which is now just deciding your sick leave doesn't matter you just don't get paid and if we make a mistake (hopefully you are as stupid as we are and never check your paycheck) we can just not pay you for working now.

Nothing ever surprises me and yet you tell the union you are tired of doing pay adjustments constantly and not being paid timely or correctly. To which the answer is as long as they correct it it's ok.

 

[tonsillitis]

the exact reason why they got the job.

 

[neciat]

Nothing ever surprises me and yet you tell the union you are tired of doing pay adjustments constantly and not being paid timely or correctly. To which the answer is as long as they correct it it's ok

It IS NOT okay to blatantly violate The Nat'l Agreement, The ELM, and The F-21. Can and do mistakes OCCASIONALLY occur ? Yes. But to just arbitrarily as well as unilaterally LWOP carriers is unconscionable. Heck, even if / when a carrier is out of sick leave , it is the CARRIER'S OPTION to use either LWOP or annual leave. From Article 10 of The Nat'l Agreement ;

Section 3. Sick Leave

The Employer agrees to continue the administration of the pres-
ent sick leave program, which shall include the following spe-
cific items:
a. Credit employees with sick leave as earned.
b. Charge to annual leave or leave without pay (at
employee’s option) approved absence for which
employee has insufficient sick leave.
c. Employee becoming ill while on annual leave may have
leave charged to sick leave upon request.
d. Regular rural carriers shall be charged sick leave in
minimum units of one day.
e. For periods of absence of three (3) days or less, a
supervisor may accept an employee’s certification as
reason for an absence

From Article 5 of The Nat'l Agreement ;

PROHIBITION OF UNILATERAL ACTION

The Employer will not take any actions affecting wages, hours
and other terms and conditions of employment as defined in
Section 8(d) of the National Labor Relations Act which violate
the terms of this Agreement or are otherwise inconsistent with
its obligations under law

I sure hope this has been filed upon. If your DR and / or ADR are "okay" with all of this "as long as they fix it" , go over THEIR head(s).

 

[jaymacgthree]

What is the time limit to correct their failures? You wait forever for pay adjustments, past the 14 day rule for grievances. If management can't handle their job these people should be canned. The union needs to be on top of getting carriers paid correctly. I would go so far as to say it should be their number 1 priority.

 

[Old Fart]

New thing at the (my) PO. apparently the PM now tells the supervisors if anyone calls out you are LWOP no matter what. OR in my case LWOP me on an approved annual leave day. ALSO decided somehow to give me leave rather than a code 5 on K day even though I worked that day - how does that work?

This is happening to several people in the office or perhaps more that I don't know about. Supervisor told one person they can no longer make adjustments. So according to this supervisor (who isn't very smart) if they make a mistake its just too bad you just don't get paid Why are these people so stupid that work in management on this job and why do we have to deal with such things? Do they even realize they are federal employees representing the federal government which is now just deciding your sick leave doesn't matter you just don't get paid and if we make a mistake (hopefully you are as stupid as we are and never check your paycheck) we can just not pay you for working now.

Nothing ever surprises me and yet you tell the union you are tired of doing pay adjustments constantly and not being paid timely or correctly. To which the answer is as long as they correct it it's ok.

I would contact my union DR immediately if your shop steward is giving you the brush off.. This manager is violating a number of policies and working for free by mandate is a HUGE no-no. Not the slightest chance that if a manager makes a mistake in payroll submission the carrier just doesn't get paid.

 

[mariomail]

What is the time limit to correct their failures? You wait forever for pay adjustments, past the 14 day rule for grievances. If management can't handle their job these people should be canned. The union needs to be on top of getting carriers paid correctly. I would go so far as to say it should be their number 1 priority.

 

[Shannonboy]

It IS NOT okay to blatantly violate The Nat'l Agreement, The ELM, and The F-21. Can and do mistakes OCCASIONALLY occur ? Yes. But to just arbitrarily as well as unilaterally LWOP carriers is unconscionable. Heck, even if / when a carrier is out of sick leave , it is the CARRIER'S OPTION to use either LWOP or annual leave. From Article 10 of The Nat'l Agreement ;

Section 3. Sick Leave

The Employer agrees to continue the administration of the pres-
ent sick leave program, which shall include the following spe-
cific items:
a. Credit employees with sick leave as earned.
b. Charge to annual leave or leave without pay (at
employee’s option) approved absence for which
employee has insufficient sick leave.
c. Employee becoming ill while on annual leave may have
leave charged to sick leave upon request.
d. Regular rural carriers shall be charged sick leave in
minimum units of one day.
e. For periods of absence of three (3) days or less, a
supervisor may accept an employee’s certification as
reason for an absence

From Article 5 of The Nat'l Agreement ;

PROHIBITION OF UNILATERAL ACTION

The Employer will not take any actions affecting wages, hours
and other terms and conditions of employment as defined in
Section 8(d) of the National Labor Relations Act which violate
the terms of this Agreement or are otherwise inconsistent with
its obligations under law

I sure hope this has been filed upon. If your DR and / or ADR are "okay" with all of this "as long as they fix it" , go over THEIR head(s).

GREAT COMMENT and also information. Neciat...you are my Hero, and also a HERO to many, many others on this site.
Thank you for your knowledge, and expertise my friend.

 

[Sunofa]

This can really be a crazy place. My Supervisor wants to force the regulars to work their k-day instead of splitting a route. If that's the case, we may not get another day off. This used to never happen.

 

[mariomail]

SO ... asked super last Monday for adjustment. Nothing. Asked today was told "I been busy". Said I'll go ahead and file a grievance and was told "do what you have to do." So this is where we are at with this terrible organization. Have to file a grievance because they mess up your pay and it's just not important to correct.

 

[RammerJammer]

SO ... asked super last Monday for adjustment. Nothing. Asked today was told "I been busy". Said I'll go ahead and file a grievance and was told "do what you have to do." So this is where we are at with this terrible organization. Have to file a grievance because they mess up your pay and it's just not important to correct.

It’s never important to them until you demand and get an advance because then they’ll be answering to district if they don’t file an adjustment and reclaim the advance.

 

[mariomail]

for those who care: talked to rep today. Learned a lot of new stuff from him!

Was told I could be LWOP if you call out because my office gets too many call outs (even though I had an approved leave and does it matter you can't be LWOP if you have AL or SL)

Told me the bright side is if I file a grievance I would lose an annual leave day. If I just let it be I still have my annual leave day!! like really?

was told if your K day falls on a holiday the prior day isn't a K day you just get straight time. Told him I been getting paid that way for years. He looked it up and told me they been paying me wrong I shouldn't be giving code 5 OT

told him the supervisor told me he's too busy to do pay adjustment ... didn't bother him. Is it not the point of the union to defend us.

I told him everyone I talk to the post office gives me a head ache because no on seems to have decency or common sense. I'm just tired of it at this point. For such a simple job the idiots around me make it much worse than it has to be.
I'm probably missing a few key points but during the conversation I couldn't believe I was dealing with someone who is supposed to help and defend us ...

 

[RammerJammer]

for those who care: talked to rep today. Learned a lot of new stuff from him!

Was told I could be LWOP if you call out because my office gets too many call outs (even though I had an approved leave and does it matter you can't be LWOP if you have AL or SL)

Told me the bright side is if I file a grievance I would lose an annual leave day. If I just let it be I still have my annual leave day!! like really?

was told if your K day falls on a holiday the prior day isn't a K day you just get straight time. Told him I been getting paid that way for years. He looked it up and told me they been paying me wrong I shouldn't be giving code 5 OT

told me to ask another supervisor since this one doesn't want to do it!
told me I had 14 days to file otherwise can't do pay adjustment (I had pay adjustments done before a month or so prior)
told him the supervisor told me he's too busy to do pay adjustment ... didn't bother him. Is it not the point of the union to defend us.

I told him everyone I talk to the post office gives me a head ache because no on seems to have decency or common sense. I'm just tired of it at this point. For such a simple job the idiots around me make it much worse than it has to be.
I'm probably missing a few key points but during the conversation I couldn't believe I was dealing with someone who is supposed to help and defend us ...

If you have a Monday K day and have been getting daca 5 pay for all the Monday holidays I would sure try and stay on that supervisor’s good side because you’ve been getting a sweetheart deal. The only way you lose a day of AL is if you take 10 days of LWOP in a pay period. Whether you file a grievance or not has nothing to do with it. I don’t fool with supervisors to do pay adjustments you go to the pm or whoever is the highest one in charge.

 

[DohnJalton]

was told if your K day falls on a holiday the prior day isn't a K day you just get straight time. Told him I been getting paid that way for years. He looked it up and told me they been paying me wrong I shouldn't be giving code 5 OT

This place is such a joke. If this is happening in your office think of how many offices out there are paying out way more to its employees.

 

[blue_goose1348]

The only way you lose a day of AL is if you take 10 days of LWOP in a pay period. Whether you file a grievance or not has nothing to do with it. I don’t fool with supervisors

First sentence is totally incorrect! Any time the total days of LWOP reaches 10, you loose a day of annual and a half day of sick leave. This is what is earned in a pay period and by not working it was not earned. As for filing a grievance, I believe it states to so so with you immediate supervisor though I could be wrong.

 

[RammerJammer]

First sentence is totally incorrect! Any time the total days of LWOP reaches 10, you loose a day of annual and a half day of sick leave. This is what is earned in a pay period and by not working it was not earned. As for filing a grievance, I believe it states to so so with you immediate supervisor though I could be wrong.

It’s not totally incorrect there’s always some former union nerd around that finds fault. I deal in concise language. Yeah I know when you reach 20 days LWOP you lose 2 AL and 1 SL and so on & so forth. You might have a preliminary discussion with a peon supervisor but to ensure your issue is taken seriously go to the pm.

 

[Shannonboy]

for those who care: talked to rep today. Learned a lot of new stuff from him!

Was told I could be LWOP if you call out because my office gets too many call outs (even though I had an approved leave and does it matter you can't be LWOP if you have AL or SL)

Told me the bright side is if I file a grievance I would lose an annual leave day. If I just let it be I still have my annual leave day!! like really?

was told if your K day falls on a holiday the prior day isn't a K day you just get straight time. Told him I been getting paid that way for years. He looked it up and told me they been paying me wrong I shouldn't be giving code 5 OT

told him the supervisor told me he's too busy to do pay adjustment ... didn't bother him. Is it not the point of the union to defend us.

I told him everyone I talk to the post office gives me a head ache because no on seems to have decency or common sense. I'm just tired of it at this point. For such a simple job the idiots around me make it much worse than it has to be.
I'm probably missing a few key points but during the conversation I couldn't believe I was dealing with someone who is supposed to help and defend us ...

That's how most of them are....po mgmt, and union especially....I've only known 2-3 halfway decent union reps...and all the rest were some of the most WORTHLESS, and PATHETIC people you'll ever regret meeting....trust me, you cant count on the union.....as God is my witness... THEY WILL LET YOU DOWN. At least you know it some, so you wont be too surprised when they help po mgmt bend you over the desk, and let you have it...

 

[Rt2mailman]

What your pm/supervisor is doing by not allowing you to use your leave as you wish is beyond a contractual issue and is a Nation Labor charge. It is WAGE THEFT and illegal to not pay you for the leave you requested. In our contract annual/sick leave is an earned benefit. It is your's to use as you wish. If your pm can prove you are misusing sick leave he may place you on the restricted sick leave list, with a quarter of a year of that proof.
The office problem of everyone else calling out sick is your pm's fault. If he had hired new Rcas and had available leave replacemts those carriers would have taken annual leave. They also would not have been so tired and bodily abused as to have needed a day off to recuperate. These managers have made this mess and are trying to now, not only abuse your bodies, but now your proper income.
So how do you fix this mess?
Sorry to say it is through that sucky steward that you have, and to do so, you will have to scare him into doing his JOB also by threatening a National Labor charge directly against him personally for lack of proper representation.
Your first grievance should be: Can my manager (Name) falsify my leave request and pay me unjustly as an LWOP day when I had an approved annual leave day?
With this question there is no wiggle room for your manager nor your steward to avoid proper rectification of this blatant wage theft.
If your pay isn't adjusted properly and if this happens to anyone else in the office, your second "Class action" grievance should be for the same reason but requiring monetary penalties for each occurrence going forward.
On top of all of this, have your supervisor look at the bottom right corner of any 3971 form (Leave slip)
It states that any falsification of this document is punishable by 5 years in prison or $10,000 fine.
Then ask him which would he prefer the 5 years or the $10,000 for not honoring his "Approval signature" on your leave slip.
Don't let any steward tell you that you "at least aren't losing a annual day" because a good steward would get the pay for that day and an annual day reinstated.