Management wants me to get a bigger vehicle, or remove Business Pickup from my route.

[dunshine]

Hello, I made a post about this recently, asking the “what if’s” of this situation, but now manglement is starting to get serious about it so I really want to know what my rights are here.

There is a business pickup on my route that frequently runs sales. sometimes they’ll only have 20 packages, but when they run these sales they’ll have 180+ packages to pick up, that are rather large. On those days, I have to do multiple trips to be able to pick them all up and bring them back to the post office.

Since we just had Friday off for Juneteenth, this business basically had a 3 day weekend worth of catching up on orders since they don’t get picked up on Saturday or Sunday either, and this time Friday. Returning to work this monday it took me 6 trips to finally clear their garage of packages.

Well now manglement has approached me and told me that I now need to get a bigger vehicle. For reference, my route is only a 41H. I have a RHD 2door Jeep Wrangler. I can fit my normal mail volume in my vehicle. Mondays i get 120 packages, every other day it barely ever goes over 50 packages. I bring back 250+ outgoing packages a day on average. I told manglement no way, i’m not switching out a fully converted RHD just to get a big SUV. and i’m not paying for a new vehicle, i honestly think it’s insane im even using my own.

Well now they want to take the collection from me completely! I’m fine with getting aux help with it if they don’t want to pay me for second trips, but i certainly don’t want to give up territory when my route is already a 41H which is practically the bottom of the barrel.

What are my options here? I know that they can just send city to collect it, but how would i get credit if they don’t have RRECs? they can’t use carrierPO. I came back to the office today and only picked up 15 of their packages so i had room for the rest of my pickups, and told them there is still 180 packages sitting back at the business that need to be picked up, and since im “no longer authorized to do second trips” that i can’t do it. I’m not sure who they’ve ended up sending. but i was just sent home.

 

[btdtret]

dunshine -- "Well now manglement has approached me and told me that I now need to get a bigger vehicle. What are my options here?"

-- For starters, you could cite Section 141.2 of the PO-603: Your personal vehicle must be large enough to accommodate the NORMAL mail volume and constructed to protect the mail from loss or damage. ( does not really address whether the "normal mail volume" is what you deliver or what you pick up )

-- Get a copy of Step 4 ( V-2 ). If a member of the NRLCA, you should find it inside their web site. If not a member, ask someone in the office that is a member to get it, or ask your office steward, or if none, ask your Assistant District Representative ( aka ADR ).

-- "Cherry picking" from V-2 which addresses Excessive Additional Trips and steps the carrier AND manglement may consider/take.

- The parties agree that the above provision indicates that a rural carrier, who is required to furnish a personal vehicle, should provide a vehicle of sufficient size that will NORMALLY carry all of the mail for the route.

- If management authorizes an additional trip, utilizes a leave replacement, curtails mail or takes other actions due to the size of the carrier's personal vehicle on more than 12 days in any six month period, management MAY require the rural carrier to provide a larger vehicle that will significantly reduce additional trips or MAY adjust the route AT THE OPTION OF THE CARRIER.

- If the carrier chooses to provide a larger vehicle, such vehicle must be provided within 60 days of being notified of excessive trips ( or show proof of purchase ). Additional trips during the Christmas overtime period WILL NOT COUNT toward the more than 12 days.

- Should the carrier be unable to provide a larger vehicle, management will consider assigning an Employer provided vehicle to the route if available, and if the Employer provided vehicle will significantly reduce the additional trips, prior to adjusting the route.

-- The above should give you some "ammo" in dealing with manglement. Be sure to request a list of the 12 days you needed to make additional trips!

-- Advise your ADR of manglement's intentions regarding a larger vehicle.

-- Manglement could remove the business in order to reduce additional trips.

-- Whenever you take time off, how does the carrier covering your route handle the incoming parcels?

-- Going off the "deep end" items:

- If rural routes with an employer provided vehicle are making excessive additional trips, politely inform manglement that you will get a larger vehicle -- as soon as those employer vehicle routes get a larger vehicle.

- If employer vehicles are available, but manglement won't consider putting one on your route, you might grieve and cite Section 142.3 of the PO-603: The USPS supplies ALL additional necessary EQUIPMENT, supplies, and forms.

-- After rereading your post, face the possibility of losing the offending business. In the mean time, get your ADR involved.

 

[dunshine]

-- Whenever you take time off, how does the carrier covering your route handle the incoming parcels?

My route is never ran as a whole. It’s usually split 3 ways. Someone runs my residential, someone runs my businesses, and then one other person runs my pickups.

This is if my route is even finished on days i’m off. Other times, they’ll only run my residential and leave all businesses for when I come back, and some of my businesses are lucky if they even get a pick up.

 

[gotstamps]

The vehicle size provisions speak to carrying the mail for the route, not collections.
If your route volume fits into your vehicle daily then your vehicle is adequate.

Contact your Steward about filing a grievance. The “adequate size” requirement pertains to delivery, not parcel collections.

 

[Rt2mailman]

You are not an overburdened route, so they can NOT cut (adjust) your route. Your rhd Jeep is considered to be of adequate size for rural routes by our union and upper Usps management.
Even if some one else picks up for you, you must grieve if management doesn't require them (city or rca) to record the pick ups correctly. Rcas must switch to your route number, as city carriers also have to do, plus they must switch to RURAL carrier.
Your vehicle only has to be big enough to hold the average day of mail, not exceptional day's worth of mail. This is found in the po 603 (rules an regulations for rural carriers, required to be at every rural carrier case).

 

[dunshine]

Even if some one else picks up for you, you must grieve if management doesn't require them (city or rca) to record the pick ups correctly. Rcas must switch to your route number, as city carriers also have to do, plus they must switch to RURAL carrier.

Now is there a way for me to request RRECs activity to fact check that they’re indeed doing CARRIERPO? I feel like I remember hearing you can see that data and it’s often used in route disputes. I’m willing to go far enough to let it happen for a week, let them know it needs to be credited properly, and if data fails to show it file the grievance.

I’ve had nothing but problems with managment since i’ve been on this route

 

[ATCBigE]

So hold on. You already have Jeep and they want bigger vehicle????/ What's next??? Semi????? CDL license??? So dumb. This place is always worried about the stupid little things like this instead of running the company.

Just smile, wave, enjoy the extra money for 2nd trip to pick up the packages, and file if necessary.

 

[dunshine]

So hold on. You already have Jeep and they want bigger vehicle????/ What's next??? Semi????? CDL license??? So dumb. This place is always worried about the stupid little things like this instead of running the company.

Just smile, wave, enjoy the extra money for 2nd trip to pick up the packages, and file if necessary.

Yes, insane isn’t it? I wish i could still run the 2nd trips but they specifically told me i’m no longer allowed to run second trips anymore.

 

[btdtret]

dunshine -- "My route is never ran as a whole. It’s usually split 3 ways. Someone runs my residential, someone runs my businesses, and then one other person runs my pickups."

-- That is interesting - you can run the route by yourself ( aside from the big business pickup ), but 3 other carriers are unable! Apparently manglement does not appreciate you or your efforts.

-- What does the carrier use for the pickups? A POV or employer provided vehicle? A Metris or LLV?

-- Might as well further endear yourself to manglement by requesting proof that your route is getting FULL RRECS credit for your days off!

"This is if my route is even finished on days I’m off. Other times, they’ll only run my residential and leave all businesses for when I come back, and some of my businesses are lucky if they even get a pick up."

-- Leaving the businesses for when you come back! -- won't that be "delaying" the mail? You could hint to manglement that you will be contacting your congressional representatives and or encouraging owners of the businesses skipped on your day off to do so.

-- Keep the ball rolling by requesting payment via the 8127 for any mail left by others when you are off. AKA "Full Day's Relief".

-- If denied, request an 8191 ( Grievance Form ). Should manglement reply none is available, that will be another grievance, citing the PO-603's Section 142.3.

-- There is an old rural carrier saying: choose your battles - carefully!

" I wish I could still run the 2nd trips but they specifically told me I’m no longer allowed to run second trips anymore."

-- Even more reason to request proof the route is receiving proper RRECS credit.

-- Maybe some bean counter will run the numbers to see if having someone else do your pickups is really saving the USPS any $$.

-- Do everything by the "book" or the "numbers" as manglement must be keeping a close eye on you!

 

[ATCBigE]

Yes, insane isn’t it? I wish i could still run the 2nd trips but they specifically told me i’m no longer allowed to run second trips anymore.

I would file grievance on that. Not sure they can do that legally.

 

[Shannonboy]

The vehicle size provisions speak to carrying the mail for the route, not collections.
If your route volume fits into your vehicle daily then your vehicle is adequate.

Contact your Steward about filing a grievance. The “adequate size” requirement pertains to delivery, not parcel collections.

Well said.....Gotstamps....this is a GENIUS COMMENT. Best one I have read....

 

[Rt2mailman]

There is a way for any rural carrier to check their route's data on ANY given day. Your manager MUST allow you to see this information when you ask to see it. If you don't see that huge number of pickups on the days when someone else picksup for you, you should file a grievance

Now is there a way for me to request RRECs activity to fact check that they’re indeed doing CARRIERPO? I feel like I remember hearing you can see that data and it’s often used in route disputes. I’m willing to go far enough to let it happen for a week, let them know it needs to be credited properly, and if data fails to show it file the grievance.

I’ve had nothing but problems with managment since i’ve been on this route

 

[hockey94]

Yes, insane isn’t it? I wish i could still run the 2nd trips but they specifically told me i’m no longer allowed to run second trips anymore.

Well, I have posted this before, pm said I needed a bigger vehicle, my response was, the LLV’s sometimes can’t fit everything sometimes, do those routes need bigger vehicles ? END of conversation, never brought up again. As other posters have stated, you need to contact the union person. Good luck.

 

[dunshine]

So as of right now, i’m still getting the 5630’s for the pickup in my flats bin every morning so i’m still doing the pickup they’ve only been getting 7 packages max now that their sale is over. If they have a sale again and they don’t let me go out to run the second trip, fine, someone else can do my hard work. but i will notate how many pickups i had under RRECs summary for the day, and will notify them that whoever goes out and does the rest of the pickup better be doing CARRIERPO scan as well as AUTHDISMOUNT. If it doesn’t reflect that when I check my routes data I’ll be filing a grievance on it. Thanks everyone!

 

[dunshine]

Well, I have posted this before, pm said I needed a bigger vehicle, my response was, the LLV’s sometimes can’t fit everything sometimes, do those routes need bigger vehicles ? END of conversation, never brought up again. As other posters have stated, you need to contact the union person. Good luck.

I just found out too that the collection route has to do second trips often due to a huge pickup on our main street. seems weird that their collection vehicle doesn’t even have enough space but they want to add more to the route.

 

[BillyBoi]

My route is never ran as a whole. It’s usually split 3 ways. Someone runs my residential, someone runs my businesses, and then one other person runs my pickups.

This is if my route is even finished on days i’m off. Other times, they’ll only run my residential and leave all businesses for when I come back, and some of my businesses are lucky if they even get a pick up.

I don't understand how you are a 41H but it takes 3 subs to split your route and somehow there are times your route isn't completed when you aren't there. This doesn't sound like a 6 hr and 50 min route from the way you are describing it.
Are you doing all your scans properly?
Are you maintaining your edit book properly?
When's the last time you did your mapping and measured your dismount distances?
When doing the large pickups are you entering your auth dismount/ trip to door?

 

[dunshine]

I don't understand how you are a 41H but it takes 3 subs to split your route and somehow there are times your route isn't completed when you aren't there. This doesn't sound like a 6 hr and 50 min route from the way you are describing it.
Are you doing all your scans properly?
Are you maintaining your edit book properly?
When's the last time you did your mapping?
When doing the large pickups are you entering your auth dismount/ trip to door?

I don't understand how you are a 41H but it takes 3 subs to split your route and somehow there are times your route isn't completed when you aren't there. This doesn't sound like a 6 hr and 50 min route from the way you are describing it.
Are you doing all your scans properly?
Are you maintaining your edit book properly?
When's the last time you did your mapping?
When doing the large pickups are you entering your auth dismount/ trip to door?

yes i literally did every scan but unfortunately ive only been on this route for 7 months and it can promise you before, it was not getting done by the guy that was on it. i cleaned out a ton of boxes. It’s not supposed to be a 41H, and i know it’s not going to be after this next count. When half my route isn’t getting ran when im gone and it hasn’t been ever since this route has been a route, the coverage factor went to crap. I’m putting a lot of work into it.

 

[hockey94]

I just found out too that the collection route has to do second trips often due to a huge pickup on our main street. seems weird that their collection vehicle doesn’t even have enough space but they want to add more to the route.

The PO is weird & very f’d, top to bottom, mostly at the top.

 

[BillyBoi]

yes i literally did every scan but unfortunately ive only been on this route for 7 months and it can promise you before, it was not getting done by the guy that was on it. i cleaned out a ton of boxes. It’s not supposed to be a 41H, and i know it’s not going to be after this next count. When half my route isn’t getting ran when im gone and it hasn’t been ever since this route has been a route, the coverage factor went to crap. I’m putting a lot of work into it.

I know it's frustrating having to clean all that up. The route I inherited was a mess as well and somehow after the cuts its supposed to be the same size as all the other routes in our office. I was able to get an interm adjustment to a 45k because a bunch of the route data was not correct including the dismount distance for all the dismounts. Many were set to 0. We do have another two or so that are bad as well a couple because of quick carriers that don't do route maintenance and another because the stuff she got was assigned her old coverage & volume factor which was average and the stuff she got is high.
Please make sure your park and delivery points are mapped correctly as that counts for several factors in every package you deliver and how much you are paid per package. My mapping was BAD, terribly placed points, boxes not grouped, boxes plotted way off the road, many houses mapped as the wrong address, etc.

 

[dunshine]

I know it's frustrating having to clean all that up. The route I inherited was a mess as well and somehow after the cuts its supposed to be the same size as all the other routes in our office. I was able to get an interm adjustment to a 45k because a bunch of the route data was not correct including the dismount distance for all the dismounts. Many were set to 0. We do have another two or so that are bad as well a couple because of quick carriers that don't do route maintenance and another because the stuff she got was assigned her old coverage & volume factor which was average and the stuff she got is high.
Please make sure your park and delivery points are mapped correctly as that counts for several factors in every package you deliver and how much you are paid per package. My mapping was BAD, terribly placed points, boxes not grouped, boxes plotted way off the road, many houses mapped as the wrong address, etc.

Yeah all of my dismounts were also set to 0 and many of my CBUs were also not grouped. My distances looked ok on DPM, but many of my parking points were on the wrong side of the street so that was about all I had to fix. I added a lot of addresses that had not been added for a really long time. My coverage factor came back at 63%. anddd yeah none of the proper scans were getting done for about a year when there was a different carrier on it. the original one I know did the scans, but she would never go do the computer work. The newer guy, he just did nothing but deliver and pick up the mail.

I’m worried for my second trips no one will do my CARRIERPO scans but I get to the pickup location first, so I have just been putting in the package amount myself and then telling my managment they just need to make sure they’re doing prepaid acceptance upon loading.