New PTF position

wfillbra · Oct 7, 2016

Currently, our office has 3 PTF's with a 4th being added. Nine weekday relief days are covered by the 3 PTF's. 4 Other routes with weekday relief are covered by RCA's as their primary. 7 remaining routes have Saturdays off and are covered by all PTFs and RCA's. The most likely new PTF has a Saturday Primary relief route. How is the second route required for the PTF position resolved. Is this taken from an RCA or a PTF?

Second question?--When a regular route opens up, does the senior PTF have to take it or is it bid on by all PTF's?

EthelAnne · Oct 8, 2016

Regarding the first question (who would lose the day of work to cover the new PTFs 2 required days?), I'm going to say it's at management's discretion. RCAs must have a primary, and PTFs must have 2 routes, beyond that there's no provision of the contract that I'm aware of that would govern who loses out in your scenario.

Regarding the second question, I was under the impression that PTFs do not normally bid on routes. Vacancies are awarded to the most senior PTF. From the contract, Article 12.3.B.8 (Local Posting and Bidding):

"When more than one regular route is posted, a PTF rural carrier(s) has a choice of bidding on residual vacancies based on the longest period of service in the office as a PTF rural carrier. Otherwise, there is no requirement for a PTF to bid."

I'm not aware of any penalty to the PTF if they decline the assignment.

gotstamps · Oct 8, 2016

Mgmt cannot take routes from RCAs to give to a PTF. PTFs are only required to have minimum of 2 routes. PTFs cannot be assigned "hold-downs" or auxiliarys. They are not required to bid for a vacancy, but should if there are multiple vacancies. They cannot refuse to "go regular". All routes assigned to a PTF have to have different K-days in order to provide coverage.

wfillbra · Oct 8, 2016

Thank you both for your response. Got Stamps--I understand that a PTF cannot refuse regular but, if there is only one route available and 4 PTF's to fill it, can the senior PTF pass on it and allow one of the other PTF's to take it. "Mgmt cannot take routes from RCAs to give to a PTF". How does a PTF get up to 2 routes if there are no primaries available? There are primaries available on Saturday but, the new PTF already has a Saturday primary and needs 1 more.

Deer Smearer · Oct 9, 2016

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<strong>PATCO said </strong>
Thank you both for your response. Got Stamps--I understand that a PTF cannot refuse regular but, if there is only one route available and 4 PTF's to fill it, can the senior PTF pass on it and allow one of the other PTF's to take it. "Mgmt cannot take routes from RCAs to give to a PTF". How does a PTF get up to 2 routes if there are no primaries available? There are primaries available on Saturday but, the new PTF already has a Saturday primary and needs 1 more.

</blockquote>
If there are Saturdays needing subs and weekday relief days have RCAs, the manglement can reassign an RCA from route with a weekday relief day to route with a Saturday relief day and then assign that weekday relief day route to the new PTF.

http://www.ruralinfo.net/Contract/Combined%20Analysis%201995-2010.pdf

Starts at page 117

wfillbra · Oct 9, 2016

Thank you Deer Smearer for the answer and supporting document. This absolutely helps.

gotstamps · Oct 9, 2016

Never had a problem with too many Sat K's & not enough assigned RCAs to those Sats. We're a formula office and Subs would change to a Sat K primary & select weekday 2nds & 3 rds, therefore guaranteeing 2-3 days of work. As to the first question, no, a PTF cannot decline a Reg position. Senior PTF will advance when there are multiple PTFs. That's the catch... If you want benefits, you must become PTF & go Regular when the position exists in an office. If you Don't want to go Regular, you can't have the benefits.

wfillbra · Oct 9, 2016

In our case, existing PTF's have 3 weekday primaries with Saturday being guaranteed because not enough RCA's to cover Saturday.

I realize that senior PTF gets the position but was wondering if its documented that a senior PTF could decline it if there is another PTF that would take it.

PTF's have benefits. So if you would decline it, your statement would indicate you would be demoted to an RCA.

Punkie5 · Oct 9, 2016

So, as a formula office....

A RCA covers me on j- route Saturdays but is listed as my 1st backup, not my primary. The same rca is assigned to another route on Thursday as is listed As the primary on that route. i have been told that the rca can not be a primary on both even though it's different days. is this true and please explain.why not.

gotstamps · Oct 9, 2016

Rules are that an RCA has ONE primary & can have either 2 secondaries or 1 secondary & 1 triciary. That just how the rules are. Same as to why Regs cannot work any other route but their own.

wfillbra · Oct 9, 2016

<a href="https://www.nrlca.org/UploadedImages/ContentDocument/EL-902_(2010-2015).pdf" target="_blank">https://www.nrlca.org/UploadedImages/ContentDocument/EL-902_(2010-2015).pdf</a>

Follow the link to the contract section 30.2.C for clarification. An RCA can only be assigned a Primary, Secondary and Tertiary. A PTF can be assigned on 2-5 routes with all essentially being primaries.

In your case the RCA for your route is a Secondary. This is only a problem if you aren't getting appropriate relief, in which case you could grieve it to get an RCA assigned to your route. The knowledge base on this site has information regarding the relief matrix and how it is formulated.

wfillbra · Oct 9, 2016

Sorry about the link. It was to the NRLCA which is password protected. The contract is also located in the knowledge base on this site.

btdtret · Oct 9, 2016

PATCO -- I put in a long answer earlier in the day, guess it got lost along the way.

Short version: check Step 4's P-115 and R-95.

-- If a PTF needs another route, it will be taken from another PTF instead of an RCA.

-- Probably will find some more info in RI's KNOWLEDGEBASE when searching for "PTF".

wfillbra · Oct 10, 2016

btdret

Please refer to Deer Smearers post above. In our situation, Saturday primaries are available therefore, not requiring routes to be taken away. Just a matter of primary changes.

Thank you for looking into this.

rebel44 · Oct 16, 2016

Our office just created the PTF position, we have 5 K routes, 2 of which have not have relief for over 120 days, this is why the position was created. The other 3 k routes have assigned RCA's as their relief and currently have Saturday as their relief day. The regulars were just informed that they need to choose a new relief day, not Saturday according to seniority, because of this new PTF. Our office have to be a "formula office". Is this true? They say J routes have to have saturdays as a relief, not Ks. If they already have an assigned RCA,why do they need to change relief days. I don't see how it would affect them.

wfillbra · Oct 16, 2016

This link to the knowledgebase provides formula office info:

<a href="http://knowledgebase.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Formulaimplementation.pdf">http://knowledgebase.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Formulaimplementation.pdf</a>