Any newly appointed ( Forced ) PTF"s this year ?? Question for those that were making more on your Aux Route or RCA time and are now only assigned 3 or less routes. How are you folks making up your loss hours since the language states management " May " use you elsewhere. Does most of your management get you the hours you lost or are you meeting resistance and losing money weekly ? Has anyone been used over the 2nd or 3rd on the matrix ? Any office have guidelines their office establish ?
NEW PTF 'S Only Assigned 3 or Less Routes
- Thread starter Aux01
- Start date
Aux01 -- " Any newly appointed ( Forced ) PTF”s this year ?? "
-- Forced PTF's -- ?? The PTF position is a "bid" position. If an RCA didn't want the PTF position, the RCA should not have submitted a bid.
" Question for those that were making more on your Aux Route or RCA time and are now only assigned 3 or less routes. "
-- PTF's are assigned on 2 to 5 K-routes.
-- An RCA in a sub-short office faces the same possibility [ making less money ] when making regular.
"Does most of your management get you the hours you lost or are you meeting resistance and losing money weekly ?"
-- Doubt that manglement cares about the "lost" hours or money.
-- Falls into the same situation of an office short on subs suddenly hiring additional RCA's. RCA's go from working nearly full time to just one or two times a pay period.
-- The PTF ( Designation 76 ) is a career employee who can be utilized in a number of situations to cover other routes when the assigned relief carrier is unavailable.
-- Forced PTF's -- ?? The PTF position is a "bid" position. If an RCA didn't want the PTF position, the RCA should not have submitted a bid.
" Question for those that were making more on your Aux Route or RCA time and are now only assigned 3 or less routes. "
-- PTF's are assigned on 2 to 5 K-routes.
-- An RCA in a sub-short office faces the same possibility [ making less money ] when making regular.
"Does most of your management get you the hours you lost or are you meeting resistance and losing money weekly ?"
-- Doubt that manglement cares about the "lost" hours or money.
-- Falls into the same situation of an office short on subs suddenly hiring additional RCA's. RCA's go from working nearly full time to just one or two times a pay period.
-- The PTF ( Designation 76 ) is a career employee who can be utilized in a number of situations to cover other routes when the assigned relief carrier is unavailable.
Thanks btdtrt for your input , but I was looking for a PTF to respond or a positive helpful response on how they are making up the hours and /or getting management to add routes , " K " ones when they are available instead of not being assigned to anyone. Are they getting their fair share of hours , not monopolizing them all. Any tips to progress PTF hours , since again its a Career Position, with NO Route Assignment and Less Hours ....in some cases .
shyflyrebelguy
New member
Are ptfs only used in formula offices?
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>shyflyrebelguy said </strong>
Are ptfs only used in formula offices? </blockquote>
Yes, since they are to be assigned 2-4 K-routes as their "Primary routes". Non formula offices have Saturdays as a K-day although some carriers have agreed to a different day. PTFs cannot "hold-down" a route and cannot be assigned to an Auxiliary. It's also typically a "last resort" after mgmt has exhausted all attempts to hire subs AND the office has changed to Formula.
Are ptfs only used in formula offices? </blockquote>
Yes, since they are to be assigned 2-4 K-routes as their "Primary routes". Non formula offices have Saturdays as a K-day although some carriers have agreed to a different day. PTFs cannot "hold-down" a route and cannot be assigned to an Auxiliary. It's also typically a "last resort" after mgmt has exhausted all attempts to hire subs AND the office has changed to Formula.
wfillbra
Active member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Aux01 said </strong>
Any newly appointed ( Forced ) PTF"s this year ?? Question for those that were making more on your Aux Route or RCA time and are now only assigned 3 or less routes. How are you folks making up your loss hours since the language states management " May " use you elsewhere. Does most of your management get you the hours you lost or are you meeting resistance and losing money weekly ? Has anyone been used over the 2nd or 3rd on the matrix ? Any office have guidelines their office establish ? </blockquote>
I'm assuming you are the PTF.
How many K routes in your office?
How many RCA's in your office?
How many PTF's in your Office?
I'm assuming you are a formula office.
I'm assuming you have a matrix.
Any newly appointed ( Forced ) PTF"s this year ?? Question for those that were making more on your Aux Route or RCA time and are now only assigned 3 or less routes. How are you folks making up your loss hours since the language states management " May " use you elsewhere. Does most of your management get you the hours you lost or are you meeting resistance and losing money weekly ? Has anyone been used over the 2nd or 3rd on the matrix ? Any office have guidelines their office establish ? </blockquote>
I'm assuming you are the PTF.
How many K routes in your office?
How many RCA's in your office?
How many PTF's in your Office?
I'm assuming you are a formula office.
I'm assuming you have a matrix.
wfillbra
Active member
Refer to Article 30.2.D.3 Page 47 of the current contract. A list/matrix should be posted.
As for your situation, your office is well covered. 6 RCA's and 1 PTF = 8 routes covered and 1 RCA for the aux. at a minimum. This leaves the 3 J's to be covered every other Saturday. Dependent on the K route relief days, the PTF could cover 1 and 2 RCA's to cover on a Secondary basis.
I would guess, because of your coverage, you will have RCA's leaving soon because they aren't getting enough hours. You can hang in there and hope for a lot of annual leave usage in your office or loss of RCAs. Your seniority could increase quickly but, in the interim, it doesn't pay the bills. I'm not sure how you will invent more hours in your current situation. Even with a published matrix, it won't change your work hour situation unless you get the open K. Even then, its one additional day or again, they can use the PTF if not conflicting with other primary assignments.
As for your situation, your office is well covered. 6 RCA's and 1 PTF = 8 routes covered and 1 RCA for the aux. at a minimum. This leaves the 3 J's to be covered every other Saturday. Dependent on the K route relief days, the PTF could cover 1 and 2 RCA's to cover on a Secondary basis.
I would guess, because of your coverage, you will have RCA's leaving soon because they aren't getting enough hours. You can hang in there and hope for a lot of annual leave usage in your office or loss of RCAs. Your seniority could increase quickly but, in the interim, it doesn't pay the bills. I'm not sure how you will invent more hours in your current situation. Even with a published matrix, it won't change your work hour situation unless you get the open K. Even then, its one additional day or again, they can use the PTF if not conflicting with other primary assignments.
Because of the word "MAY " in the contract the PTF said there is no guidelines for that and the union says its up to them how, when or if ptf is used on routes with a 2nd or 3rd ...or other than the primary on the matrix the other day there was no one else on the matrix . You would think the ptf would have been assigned . Union says no , because management isn't required to use the ptf over anybody, they "MAY ". There is no grievance because union interpretation of "MAY " says management is not required to use the ptf.
Our question is there had to be a summary , Q & A of this 95-99 agreement when it first came out for union and management to follow. You historians or old union reps have this somewhere in your archives. Also we can not believe that in the past 20 plus years no one has ever come up against this issue of when and when not use the ptf. If they never use it its unfair labor or if they use the ptf all the time its favoritism and you would have no subs. Either way management would be called out and asked to justify their position either way. Our crack union would just shrug their shoulders for the past 20 years and say , no issue its in the contract ....Come on ....
Our question is there had to be a summary , Q & A of this 95-99 agreement when it first came out for union and management to follow. You historians or old union reps have this somewhere in your archives. Also we can not believe that in the past 20 plus years no one has ever come up against this issue of when and when not use the ptf. If they never use it its unfair labor or if they use the ptf all the time its favoritism and you would have no subs. Either way management would be called out and asked to justify their position either way. Our crack union would just shrug their shoulders for the past 20 years and say , no issue its in the contract ....Come on ....
Deer Smearer
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<strong>Aux01 said </strong>
Because of the word "MAY " in the contract the PTF said there is no guidelines for that and the union says its up to them how, when or if ptf is used on routes with a 2nd or 3rd ...or other than the primary on the matrix the other day there was no one else on the matrix . You would think the ptf would have been assigned . Union says no , because management isn't required to use the ptf over anybody, they "MAY ". There is no grievance because union interpretation of "MAY " says management is not required to use the ptf.
Our question is there had to be a summary , Q & A of this 95-99 agreement when it first came out for union and management to follow. You historians or old union reps have this somewhere in your archives. Also we can not believe that in the past 20 plus years no one has ever come up against this issue of when and when not use the ptf. If they never use it its unfair labor or if they use the ptf all the time its favoritism and you would have no subs. Either way management would be called out and asked to justify their position either way. Our crack union would just shrug their shoulders for the past 20 years and say , no issue its in the contract ....Come on ....
</blockquote>
That's basically how the contract is worded.
MAY.
A PTF is either a pet or a pest to manglement. They are only guaranteed 2 K route primary positions. If they are a pest that's all they'll get.
They MAY be used before secondary and tertiary subs or for just about anything else except another sub's assigned primary or assigned aux routes. If they are a pet they'll get all the extra work manglement can throw their way.
Read the <a href="https://knowledgebase.ruralinfo.net/kb/1995-2010-contract-analysis/">1995-2010 analysis</a> of changes for more info.
<strong>Aux01 said </strong>
Because of the word "MAY " in the contract the PTF said there is no guidelines for that and the union says its up to them how, when or if ptf is used on routes with a 2nd or 3rd ...or other than the primary on the matrix the other day there was no one else on the matrix . You would think the ptf would have been assigned . Union says no , because management isn't required to use the ptf over anybody, they "MAY ". There is no grievance because union interpretation of "MAY " says management is not required to use the ptf.
Our question is there had to be a summary , Q & A of this 95-99 agreement when it first came out for union and management to follow. You historians or old union reps have this somewhere in your archives. Also we can not believe that in the past 20 plus years no one has ever come up against this issue of when and when not use the ptf. If they never use it its unfair labor or if they use the ptf all the time its favoritism and you would have no subs. Either way management would be called out and asked to justify their position either way. Our crack union would just shrug their shoulders for the past 20 years and say , no issue its in the contract ....Come on ....
</blockquote>
That's basically how the contract is worded.
MAY.
A PTF is either a pet or a pest to manglement. They are only guaranteed 2 K route primary positions. If they are a pest that's all they'll get.
They MAY be used before secondary and tertiary subs or for just about anything else except another sub's assigned primary or assigned aux routes. If they are a pet they'll get all the extra work manglement can throw their way.
Read the <a href="https://knowledgebase.ruralinfo.net/kb/1995-2010-contract-analysis/">1995-2010 analysis</a> of changes for more info.
LouSainus
Well-known member
We have about 100 rural routes and have 10 or 11 PTFs which it seems they are going to keep as a stepping stone from RCA to PTF to Regular. You are assigned to at least two K routes but I think all of ours are assigned to 3 routes. They can(but dont have to) use you before using RCAs on sunday but ARCs have first priority over anyone else. As far as working more than your assigned route yes most of the PTFs work 5 days a week or so but so does all the other RCAs.
A few of the newer PTFs took a paycut as they were hired after the 2010 career paycut but before the 2012 RCA paycut. As a PTFs you do not get paid holidays the hourly rate has it built in. Management picks the routes you are assigned to you have no real say if you are in an APO you can/will be forced to take an assignment in anouther office if that is where they want you.
PTF is basically a career RCA but you cant pick your own routes. The main benefit is that your time as a PTF goes towards step pay increases as a regular also applies to retirement time too. So if you are a newer hired(table two) RCA and you work as a PTF for a year(52 weeks) before making regular you would start on step two of the payscale. Also if you skip bidding on the PTF to remain an RCA/AUX someone else will skip you in seniority for getting an actual route as they will be career sooner than you.
A few of the newer PTFs took a paycut as they were hired after the 2010 career paycut but before the 2012 RCA paycut. As a PTFs you do not get paid holidays the hourly rate has it built in. Management picks the routes you are assigned to you have no real say if you are in an APO you can/will be forced to take an assignment in anouther office if that is where they want you.
PTF is basically a career RCA but you cant pick your own routes. The main benefit is that your time as a PTF goes towards step pay increases as a regular also applies to retirement time too. So if you are a newer hired(table two) RCA and you work as a PTF for a year(52 weeks) before making regular you would start on step two of the payscale. Also if you skip bidding on the PTF to remain an RCA/AUX someone else will skip you in seniority for getting an actual route as they will be career sooner than you.
