POV broke down for 4 days

Chemado · Mar 2, 2023

A carrier in my office was without POV for 4 days. Time off was not scheduled in advance. Didn't have a backup vehicle or anyone to drive them around. Is now facing potential discipline for "unscheduled absence." Carrier has a sub assigned to route who is injured but only covered one day. Other subs covered the rest. Union has been notified of the issue at hand and that a steward will need to join carrier for a meeting.

Because of this instance the pm gave the rest of us carriers a printout of the attendance policies from the labor manual to sign and return. Which doesn't specifically state anything about POV break downs. I don't plan on signing it. Y'all always say don't sign anything.

So what are the expectations of POV carriers when vehicles break down unexpectedly? Are we supposed to do everything we can to show up even though subs are available?

Also, what could be the expected result of the disciplinary action?

Curious what you all have to say, in case I'm ever in that situation.

PapahSmurf · Mar 2, 2023

Our office they figure out getting an LLV or a Metris for these carriers.

Honestly you could show up case and pull down mail and ask them how to proceed without a vehicle. They need to be realistic when it comes to vehicles not running everyday when they have the tar beat out of them daily.

Beanut · Mar 2, 2023

Chemado said:
A carrier in my office was without POV for 4 days. Time off was not scheduled in advance. Didn't have a backup vehicle or anyone to drive them around. Is now facing potential discipline for "unscheduled absence."

So what are the expectations of POV carriers when vehicles break down unexpectedly? Are we supposed to do everything we can to show up even though subs are available?

In my experience my pov was for many years my only vehicle. I spent more in repairs than I made many weeks. If it weren’t for my regular and PM working with me during breakdowns, I would have never made it a year let alone 20yrs.
Example-I lost my transmission mid route, my PM drove me around in his car.
And in turn when I broke my leg and couldn’t work for 8 weeks. I left my POV for my PM to use on my AUX route, since we had no other relief carriers and my car is converted.
Did I have to do that? No
Did they have to help me deliver, also No.

In the long run it all comes down to human understanding, it is fine if you work with good people. But if you work with jerks you deal with all the

that comes with it. Keep your union rep on speed dial.

FYI- is as been proposed to the union that POV carriers receive additional days to use for car repairs. Doubt it will ever go through but those are things we need our union to fight for to keep carriers going.

Rt2mailman · Mar 2, 2023

If the carrier you mention is using annual leave the postmaster should say nothing to him about it. Our annual leave is a benefit to use as we wish.

Windindaface · Mar 2, 2023

You could use Sick Leave. If they ask for a Doctor note about your ability to work. Show them the repair bill and your repaired ride parked in office parking lot.

Chemado · Mar 2, 2023

Rt2mailman said:
If the carrier you mention is using annual leave the postmaster should say nothing to him about it. Our annual leave is a benefit to use as we wish.

I agree, but pm says because time off wasn't scheduled in advance, it is going on file as an unexcused absence and because it was 4 days off in a row, now there will be discipline. Who the heck can plan ahead for a breakdown?

Chemado · Mar 2, 2023

Windindaface said:
You could use Sick Leave. If they ask for a Doctor note about your ability to work. Show them the repair bill and your repaired ride parked in office parking lot.

Thought about that. Not sure if that would be acceptable to pm. Just as a Dr. note would validate being sick, a repair bill should validate a breakdown.

Windindaface · Mar 2, 2023

If any REG carrier or RCA dropped dead the night before assignment. They will jump through hoops of fire to find coverage to avoid Running the Route themselves.

Gotrope · Mar 2, 2023

Chemado said:
I agree, but pm says because time off wasn't scheduled in advance, it is going on file as an unexcused absence and because it was 4 days off in a row, now there will be discipline. Who the heck can plan ahead for a breakdown?

Did it breakdown on the route? If leave was requested prior to midnight of requested day off...it was not unscheduled.

Chemado · Mar 2, 2023

Gotrope said:
Did it breakdown on the route? If leave was requested prior to midnight of requested day off...it was not unscheduled.

No. Wouldn't start the morning of work. So first day was less than an hour notice. Next 3 days pm was notified the day before.

Gotrope · Mar 2, 2023

Chemado said:
No. Wouldn't start the morning of work. So first day was less than an hour notice. Next 3 days pm was notified the day before.

Technically, only one day was unscheduled. But, they could be pursuing the in excess of 3 days of unscheduled or sick leave issue. I would contact a competent steward for a review of proper review of discipline procedures. But, a single day of truly unscheduled leave should not justify discipline.

This is assuming there is not prior, recent attendance issues.

Rt2mailman · Mar 2, 2023

Here’s the criteria for emergency leave from the ELM.
512.41 512.411
512.412
Authorizing Annual Leave Requests for Annual Leave General
Except for emergencies, annual leave for all employees except postmasters must be requested on PS Form 3971 and approved in advance by the appropriate supervisor. Leave requests from rural carriers must be approved in accordance with Article 10 of the USPS-NRLCA National Agreement.
Emergencies
An exception to the advance approval requirement is made for emergencies; however, in these situations, the employee must notify appropriate postal authorities of the emergency and the expected duration of the absence as soon as possible.
Here’s part of article 10 that is pertinent.
Section 2. Annual Leave
A. Minimum Units and Availability of Leave Replacements
Regular rural carriers shall be granted annual leave in mini- mum units of one day. Rural carriers should be granted annual leave in accordance with their personal wishes, provided a leave replacement is available. It shall be the responsibility of each rural carrier to plan annual leave at times when a leave replacement is available.
Obviously RCAs were available. Your pm is thinking of sick leave. Ask him to use both hands and pull his head out.

Chemado · Mar 2, 2023

The copy of attendance policies from the ELM that postmaster gave us to sign did not include this info. It goes from 511.43 to 513.33. Wonder if it's an old copy? Where can I find the ELM? Is it on knowledgebase?

Deer Smearer · Mar 2, 2023

Rt2mailman said:
Here’s the criteria for emergency leave from the ELM.
512.41 512.411
512.412
Authorizing Annual Leave Requests for Annual Leave General
Except for emergencies, annual leave for all employees except postmasters must be requested on PS Form 3971 and approved in advance by the appropriate supervisor. Leave requests from rural carriers must be approved in accordance with Article 10 of the USPS-NRLCA National Agreement.
Emergencies
An exception to the advance approval requirement is made for emergencies; however, in these situations, the employee must notify appropriate postal authorities of the emergency and the expected duration of the absence as soon as possible.
Here’s part of article 10 that is pertinent.
Section 2. Annual Leave
A. Minimum Units and Availability of Leave Replacements
Regular rural carriers shall be granted annual leave in mini- mum units of one day. Rural carriers should be granted annual leave in accordance with their personal wishes, provided a leave replacement is available. It shall be the responsibility of each rural carrier to plan annual leave at times when a leave replacement is available.
Obviously RCAs were available. Your pm is thinking of sick leave. Ask him to use both hands and pull his head out.

Plus there is a step 4 stating that if a sub is available leave must be approved.

Rt2mailman · Mar 2, 2023

Deer Smearer said:
Plus there is a step 4 stating that if a sub is available leave must be approved.

Yes that is true, that’s also why I said an rca was obviously available because they worked.

KDM · Mar 3, 2023

Chemado said:
A carrier in my office was without POV for 4 days. Time off was not scheduled in advance. Didn't have a backup vehicle or anyone to drive them around. Is now facing potential discipline for "unscheduled absence." Carrier has a sub assigned to route who is injured but only covered one day. Other subs covered the rest. Union has been notified of the issue at hand and that a steward will need to join carrier for a meeting.

Because of this instance the pm gave the rest of us carriers a printout of the attendance policies from the labor manual to sign and return. Which doesn't specifically state anything about POV break downs. I don't plan on signing it. Y'all always say don't sign anything.

So what are the expectations of POV carriers when vehicles break down unexpectedly? Are we supposed to do everything we can to show up even though subs are available?

Also, what could be the expected result of the disciplinary action?

Curious what you all have to say, in case I'm ever in that situation.

Have a spare vehicle, borrow, or rent one. You have to be responsible for yourself never rely on someone else (sub) to cover its your job that is important to you.