So when a customer signs the back of a 3849 for redelivery of a certified letter our clerk won't give it to me if it has a return receipt attached to it. Is this correct? I hunted in the po603 but saw no answer. The 3849 does not say that this type of certified is exempt from redelivery. I was thinking that their signature on the back also enabled me to act as their agent and initial the return receipt for them and check the agent box. Is that convoluted thinking? What is the correct proceedure? Anything in writing on this?
Redelivery of certified with return receipt
- Thread starter Huntress
- Start date
Solution
you as a carrier are NEVER allowed to act as the customer's agent.
you as a carrier are NEVER to leave anything which requires a signature in a customer's mailbox nor at the door. such items are to be placed in the customer's hands, their agent's hands or they come to the PO to pick up.
i'll find the citations for you.
you as a carrier are NEVER to leave anything which requires a signature in a customer's mailbox nor at the door. such items are to be placed in the customer's hands, their agent's hands or they come to the PO to pick up.
i'll find the citations for you.
there is an actual memo out there somewhere detailing the above, but am unable to locate right now.
however, this should shed some light:
however, this should shed some light:
Morty
Well-known member
Correct. One of my many 14 day suspensions was on this. PM declared we deliver if 3849 is signed, clerks bullied all who didn't. Resident went online for redelivery and wrote instructions, leave in box. Then complained I left it. Then the pdi, where the PM said it doesn't matter what the resident wants, that I knew the rules! Everyone threw me under the bus.
Interestingly enough, the last day my PM worked before getting fired. It handed me a signed 3849 and certified and ordered me to deliver it in the box. I refused, citing how retarded it was to suggest I deliver it after getting discipline(set up to get fired). I immediately grieved it. And never saw the beast again. But I did get a settlement.
The po603 is clear, the ELM has language, maybe the m38, and clerks have language stating it is to be handed to a person or their designated person.
Thank you. The 3849 has that section where the customer tells you where to leave the item and says it's only not an option for restricted delivery or adult signature required. I took that as meaning the ones that say must be over 21 but it actually means all certifieds? Why dosent it just say that. I have customers sign the back of those things or answer the ring door bell all the time and want me to leave the item or letter.
Are.See.Eh
Active member
If the customer requests redelivery, we are still supposed to try to deliver it again though, correct?
Unclewolverine
Well-known member
This kind of thread is why I come here! To learn the actual rules! I was taught in academy and by regulars that a signed 3849 left in the box meant we could deliver to the box. Also that we could act as agent if they wanted us too. I have even served on routes where the customers that get a lot of certifieds, and just wants them all delivered, keep a signed 3849 taped inside the box. All lies!
it's not worth getting fired over.
and there have been carriers fired for leaving accountable items instead of delivering them into the customer's hot little hands.
i had one that tried to jump up and down about it when i first became a regular and what i told her was:
1) regardless of what the old regular did, this regular follows all rules, regulations and procedures.
2) in this case, you are not the customer, the person who sent it is and if they wanted it left in the mailbox, they wouldn't have ponied up the extra money to send it signature required.
3) i'm not losing my job for anyone.
she didn't like it, but oh well.
nowadays, customers can electronically sign and in that case, we can leave in box or at door (if package). but i never tell anyone about that, don't want to encourage bad habits.
and there have been carriers fired for leaving accountable items instead of delivering them into the customer's hot little hands.
i had one that tried to jump up and down about it when i first became a regular and what i told her was:
1) regardless of what the old regular did, this regular follows all rules, regulations and procedures.
2) in this case, you are not the customer, the person who sent it is and if they wanted it left in the mailbox, they wouldn't have ponied up the extra money to send it signature required.
3) i'm not losing my job for anyone.
she didn't like it, but oh well.
nowadays, customers can electronically sign and in that case, we can leave in box or at door (if package). but i never tell anyone about that, don't want to encourage bad habits.
gotstamps
Well-known member
We never sign for the customer (not counting COVID years). If customer signs a 3849 & there is NO Return Receipt (Green Card) on the back of the Cert, then it can be left in the mailbox. It’s the Return Receipt that needs the Customer’s signature that keeps us from leaving the Certified.
Unclewolverine
Well-known member
That's not how I read it. And it makes sense, if we didn't see them sign the 3849 how do we know its not a forged, or random signature? That's why we are supposed to ask for an ID to verify identity.
gotstamps
Well-known member
Only Restricted or Age-restriction is a reason to request to see ID. A simple Certified, Express (signature), Registered, or even Signature Confirmation does not require an ID.
@gotstamps - we are not to leave anything requiring a signature in a mailbox, signed 3849 or no.
just because carriers do it doesn't make it right.
a postal inspector catches you OR a customer says they didn't sign the 3849, you are getting fired.
just because carriers do it doesn't make it right.
a postal inspector catches you OR a customer says they didn't sign the 3849, you are getting fired.
Jiminy Christmas
Well-known member
It's a "gotcha" loophole created by the USPS.
There's not a delivery option of "signed 3849 / authorized location" in the scanner
There's not a delivery option of "signed 3849 / authorized location" in the scanner
gotstamps
Well-known member
We are instructed by mgmt to do so & delivery location is mailroom. Same goes with RTS accountables & we write “RTS- mailbox” in the name box. As long as it’s not a Restricted item or a Return Receipt, it’s not an issue. Has been this way for over 15 years here & I am in a large office. Never an issue.
in my area, 4 carriers were fired for leaving in the box.
i guess if you have clueless management you're off the hook...
unless a postal inspector finds it. then all bets are off.
Deer Smearer
Well-known member
This is another pathetic failure by the onion.
The rules are as clear as any. They should put out a detailed letter explaining the rules with citations.
There was an article years back from a California ADR IIRK saying don’t do it. I can’t find the link to it any more.
Cowards. Clueless.
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