Regular Issues

deleted.user · Jan 8, 2017

We have a regular who will refuse to quit/retire. They are extremely slow, barely and sometimes/mostly going over evaluation, heavy and light days regardless, the carrier sometimes use "old age" as an excuse.

After speaking with my PM about the situation, it sounds like the higher ups on the food chain tell our PM to let the carrier suffer and fail, almost like a forced fail. On the other hand, my PMs boss, suggests that we give continual parcel assistance to carrier.

My question is, if respectfully decline assistance from the PM or follow the direct order, what is the process to file a grievance, or do I not have a say because I am not a union member, nor will I contribute to them. I just have a feeling if I do file, it will just sit in limbo or get tossed out as frivolous.

I personally want the carrier to earn their fair share as I do not get assistance on their relief day. In hopes to get the regular to deal with the job or retire.

What are my options?

Thank you.

oi veh. · Jan 8, 2017

How old are you?

Do you want someone pushing you out the door when you are "too old"?

Just respectfully asking.

btdtret · Jan 8, 2017

thewayiseeit240 -- "What are my options?" -- #1 - Don't grow old.

#2 - Being a union member does not have anything to do with filing a grievance. The contract applies to all rural carriers, union member or not.

"On the other hand, my PMs boss, suggests that we give continual parcel assistance to carrier."

-- That's because manglement ( local and District ) would actually have to do something like take corrective action.

-- Pages 5 + 6 of the PO-603 ( SEP 2013 ). Section 151.2 Performance Appraisal.

If the weekly time required to serve the route consistently varies by more than three hours, either below or in excess of the route's standard hours, managers should consider corrective action. ( more than likely that could apply to a lot of carriers of any age in the post offices these days ) Exceptions may be made for carriers 55 years of age or older, and carriers who have served continuously for 25 years or more, provided that their conduct and efficiency are satisfactory. When it is demonstrated that a carrier 55 or over can not confine total working time to 48 hours per week or less, the route will be adjusted. -- That pretty much puts the ball in manglement's court.

#3 -- File a grievance that manglement is not doing their job. Then wait for the smelly stuff to hit the circulating device!

" if respectfully decline assistance from the PM or follow the direct order,"

-- not really sure where you are going with that. Need some additional information, please.

-- Do you want to decline the PM's offer of assistance when you are running the route?

-- Do you want to disobey a direct order to provide assistance to the older carrier?

-- Do you happen to know the age and length of service of the regular carrier in question?

deleted.user · Jan 8, 2017

29 years old. Just tired of hearing age is an excuse.

Absolutely, I personally don't want to continue working in my retirement age or at least make a transition into another position ahead of time.

Just wondering of it's a reasonable grievance to file for declining assistance, weather it be parcel runs or half the route.

It's more about the principle, I personally don't get this much assistance as this regular does. I plan my route out day to day even second trips, and still make it back in or under evaluation time.

The carrier is at or just above 60 years of age. Not sure on time in service but I think their at or near full pension.

deleted.user · Jan 8, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">btdtret said </blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
Exceptions may be made for carriers 55 years of age or older, and carriers who have served continuously for 25 years or more, provided that their conduct and efficiency are satisfactory. When it is demonstrated that a carrier 55 or over can not confine total working time to 48 hours per week or less, the route will be adjusted. -- That pretty much puts the ball in manglement's court</blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">I'll check on working time per week. But even if the route got adjusted, the carrier themselves, are just down right slow, like really, really slow and inefficient in sorting mail, and parcels.</blockquote>

gotstamps · Jan 9, 2017

Maybe if you take a look at what the carrier would be losing in pay by EARLY retiring, you wouldn't be wanting to push this carrier out. There are penalties for early retirement with SS and possibly the carrier doesn't have their 20 yrs in @ the PO as a Regular. I'm just getting to 9 yrs as a Reg and the thought of doing this job for 11 more years is scary! Who knows where we will be and I won't be old enough for retirement. I don't know the issues this carrier faces, but there are a whole lot of reasons that a carrier stays longer than their body wants to allow. JS

wfillbra · Jan 9, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">thewayiseeit240 said 
We have a regular who will refuse to quit/retire. They are extremely slow, barely and sometimes/mostly going over evaluation, heavy and light days regardless, the carrier sometimes use "old age" as an excuse.

After speaking with my PM about the situation, it sounds like the higher ups on the food chain tell our PM to let the carrier suffer and fail, almost like a forced fail. On the other hand, my PMs boss, suggests that we give continual parcel assistance to carrier.

My question is, if respectfully decline assistance from the PM or follow the direct order, what is the process to file a grievance, or do I not have a say because I am not a union member, nor will I contribute to them. I just have a feeling if I do file, it will just sit in limbo or get tossed out as frivolous.

I personally want the carrier to earn their fair share as I do not get assistance on their relief day. In hopes to get the regular to deal with the job or retire.

What are my options?

Thank you. </blockquote>
I happen to be one of those older people. I'm a PTF. Yes, I am one of the slower people in our office. I can retire. I don't want to nor do I need to. When I was 29 I probably could've kicked your butt. My question for you is; does the post office not pay you for this assistance? Oh they do, don't they. Sorry, I guess all those trophies you collected as a kid aren't showing up as often now.

deleted.user · Jan 9, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">PATCO said 

My question for you is; does the post office not pay you for this assistance? Oh they do, don't they.</blockquote>
You maybe slower but do you have efficient work habits that get you back in and under evaluation? Our regulars refuse to make adjustments to make evaluation.

Like I said, it's not about the money, it's the principle. We have whiny regulars who complain a lot. Do you think I enjoy doing parcel runs for a couple hours, umm no. It's more wear and tare running parcels than it is to run a full route.

As per PO-603, do you work efficiently?

Charlie Brown · Jan 9, 2017

This is not your problem! You should be happy that you get to make easy money doing parcel runs, happy when this carrier has 2080 problems and has to use all of their annual leave and you get to carry the route.

I understand if this carrier was gone you'd move up, one move closer to regular, but I'll repeat myself. This is not your problem!

Mgmt. has at the right to manage. They have some tools /rules to help them deal with this carrier. What they do or not do is up to them not you.

Perhaps you should go into Mgmt.

noluv4llv · Jan 9, 2017

thewayiseeit240-You are saying you have whiny regulars who complain a lot, but yet here you are...complaining about another carrier. That is not meant to be mean, just meant as sometimes you are so worried about what others are doing you can not see how you are acting. It is not your job to decide whether this person should stay or go, your job is to cover their days when needed. If they are an older regular they have probably worked hard and put a lot of time into this job, it should be their choice when they are ready to leave, not yours.

wfillbra · Jan 9, 2017

Yes, safely, expeditiously, and efficiently as possible at age 63 and 8 months. I was 60 when the post office hired me. I believe there are some silly EEO rules that prohibit certain types of discrimination. No, maybe that's all types of discrimination. You should consider a different career because you are going to experience all kinds of frustration at the PO before you reach retirement.

deleted.user · Jan 9, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
Charlie Brown said

</blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
This is not your problem!

</blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
I maybe complaining, but that's what everyone is doing on this forum. It's my problem because I'm always running parcels, and on relief day, I myself is not getting any assistance like the regulars do. If it's EEO about age, than it would be a double standard.

Better to fight for your rights than stand back and let someone take you for a ride.

</blockquote>

wfillbra · Jan 9, 2017

noluv4llv · Jan 9, 2017

No, we (rca's) don't get assistance, unless they are really struggling and others are helping them. If you don't get assistance you probably don't need it, so take that as a compliment. I'm sure your big "beef" with this is you want to be regular and they are just another person standing in the way of a full time position, but that's not their problem, it's yours. You don't get guaranteed full time with this position, you don't get anything really, but some people luck out or work here long enough to make it pay off. No one is "taking you for a ride" it's just how this position works, you are a band aid covering a hole, that's about it. Not everyone complains either, some want advice, other need to know how to file things or what forms to use. I feel this site is more about expanding your usps knowledge and being curious about what other offices do and how they handle things.

Charlie Brown · Jan 9, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
thewayiseeit240 said 

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
Charlie Brown said

</blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
This is not your problem!

</blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
I maybe complaining, but that's what everyone is doing on this forum. It's my problem because I'm always running parcels, and on relief day, I myself is not getting any assistance like the regulars do. If it's EEO about age, than it would be a double standard.

Better to fight for your rights than stand back and let someone take you for a ride.

</blockquote>

</blockquote>
And you get paid pretty well to deliver those parcels.

Now as far as you not getting any help and giving the regulars assistance do you know what 2080 is? How about Guarantee Year? Regulars are only allowed to work 2080 actual hours in any guarantee year (2240 if on RDWL) and Mgmt. has options/rules to make sure that regulars never go over. One of those options is to provide assistance and good Mgmt. will do just that to prevent more problems later. Those rules do not apply to RCA's

Fighting for your rights is great but knowing what your rights are is way more important.

wfillbra · Jan 9, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">thewayiseeit240 said 
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
Charlie Brown said
</blockquote>

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
This is not your problem!
</blockquote>

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
I maybe complaining, but that's what everyone is doing on this forum. It's my problem because I'm always running parcels, and on relief day, I myself is not getting any assistance like the regulars do. If it's EEO about age, than it would be a double standard.

Better to fight for your rights than stand back and let someone take you for a ride.
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
I recommend you file the grievance. After that, get back to us and let us know how that worked for you.

btdtret · Jan 9, 2017

thewayiseeit240 -- Please do us a favor -- stick to a single person. For instance: "We have a regular who will refuse to quit/retire. They are extremely slow... And "The carrier is at or just above 60 years of age. Not sure on time in service but I think their at or near full pension." It gets confusing for us older people.

"Just wondering of it's a reasonable grievance to file for declining assistance, weather it be parcel runs or half the route."

-- Pretty sure any steward or Assistant District Representative will shake his/her head and just say "No, don't bother." Actually it could be turned around and you end being charged with disobeying a direct order from manglement.

"The carrier is at or just above 60 years of age. Not sure on time in service but I think their at or near full pension."

-- To retire, a carrier faces such things as MRA ( Minimum Retirement Age ) and Years of Service. Benefits are reduced by 5% a year for each year under 62, unless one has 20 years of service. The July issue of the NRLCA national magazine has a section on retirement.

-- If the carrier in question could go out on disability, it could be a nightmare because both the USPS and Social Security require all t's to be crossed and the i's dotted before the paper work will be accepted. It some cases, the process has stretched to 2 years or longer -- the route is not officially vacant, so can't be put up for bid.

-- Without knowing any particulars about the carrier in question, could be the carrier needs the job to support someone at home. Sadly, it could be there is nothing waiting for the carrier out side of the post office. Or any of many different reasons for continuing to work.

"I plan my route out day to day even second trips, and still make it back in or under evaluation time."

-- Have you offered to share your planning with the carrier in question?

-- Additionally, could be that manglement has seen that you are efficient in your duties, so you don't get assistance because they feel you don't need it.

-- Sorry to say, but if you are this frustrated at 29, maybe a career change might be another option for you.

-- Bottom line, manglement should be the ones taking action -- if they think it is warranted.

Shafted · Jan 9, 2017

Thewayiseeit240 - OMG, I would have a field day with your sorry sad whiny attitude if you worked in my office.

dhoward541 · Jan 9, 2017

After over 26 years, I use age as an excuse all the time. 26 years of working a mail route wears on a body.

I would say that if the PM tries to get rid of this carrier, he is setting himself and the USPS up for an age discrimination suite. If the carrier is dependable, accurate and basically a good employee in all other ways it's not anyone's place to say they should be fired.

Personally, I'm the hell out of here asap; but if someone is putting their foot in my back trying to force me out, I may just hang around for spite; because at my age I'm a little ornery too.