Scanning only 5 picked up parcels

gotstamps · Feb 1, 2018

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">humper1va said 
whats that mean? give credit when due, I see that as saying we get credit for the scans? </blockquote>
Sounds like to me, also. My PM is pushing back on this rule. It wasn't actually mentioned but there was plenty of insinuating of scan change & he doesn't want to look bad with the customers nor have our office scanning go down. The stewards still have a few "items" to hash out but I'm hoping it goes his way. We've already seen how not all parcels get scanned anywhere else between shipper & destination on a few pkgs lately. It was a good thing the carrier scanned the pickup pkg or the "clock" wouldn't have started on this parcel until the destination PO scanned it out-for-delivery! ?

Mmrural82 · Feb 2, 2018

Was told by union rep that they are trying to force customers to use manifests for more than 5 items so we scan manifest and all parcel scans are loaded. Says FedEx and Ups already do this.

FXDL2003 · Feb 2, 2018

We had our precount conference and Supervisor and PM both agreed that we will get credit for all parcels picked up if there is a pickup request. If not we get credit for anything over 2lbs. But we will still get the scan credit for all of them no matter the size. This is what we did last time I was in count also (3 years ago). I have all my sheets to prove it and they know that I kept them.

anamaria28 · Feb 3, 2018

Publication 399 #9(b) is NOT Forbidding a carrier that wants to scan all of the items! It only specifies that you are not required to scan them all as in the (a) case where they're 5 items or less. Scan Them All Baby!!! They can't deny the scanner records.

faceindawind · Feb 5, 2018

A bigger question is... What's the rule on the City Side? There is a carrot chaser in office who has mass of items from one location the office got them the Dodge Sprinter van to service this location and deliver out of. Had chat with them when this first started about manifest. If item total on manifest did not match scan all and manifest. Policy continues to this day. It did with our craft too until this.

If you have customers who daily use the P/U program and mail more than 5 items each time, explain to them how this effects your pay and only list 1 item. This way no manifest is generated, you get credit for all scans. I have a couple locations with daily P/U requests. Both have found out they can submit requests for a year in advance. Both put 1. Most of the time it's 5 plus. On average 1 day a month nothing from either.

They are changing the rules of the game at the last moment if this count turns out to be the last count we are familiar with. They will continue to change rules under the new system, but won't care the way the IE is SLOWLY implemented into our EVAL system. By the time it reaches a step 4 and an MOU, they get free work unless they realize monetary settlements are owed. When was the last time this occurred? . Rule changes at critical moments in our craft will continue.

gotstamps · Feb 5, 2018

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">Faceindawind said 
A bigger question is... What's the rule on the City Side? There is a carrot chaser in office who has mass of items from one location the office got them the Dodge Sprinter van to service this location and deliver out of. Had chat with them when this first started about manifest. If item total on manifest did not match scan all and manifest. Policy continues to this day. It did with our craft too until this.

If you have customers who daily use the P/U program and mail more than 5 items each time, explain to them how this effects your pay and only list 1 item. This way no manifest is generated, you get credit for all scans. I have a couple locations with daily P/U requests. Both have found out they can submit requests for a year in advance. Both put 1. Most of the time it's 5 plus. On average 1 day a month nothing from either.

They are changing the rules of the game at the last moment if this count turns out to be the last count we are familiar with. They will continue to change rules under the new system, but won't care the way the IE is SLOWLY implemented into our EVAL system. By the time it reaches a step 4 and an MOU, they get free work unless they realize monetary settlements are owed. When was the last time this occurred? . Rule changes at critical moments in our craft will continue. </blockquote>
BTW... listing more than 1 item as a pickup request does NOT generate a manifest. Customer answers a "yes/no" question as to whether they want a manifest generated when making more than 1 Click-n-Ship label. The request for pickup can be done separately & does not include adding the confirmation numbers of the packages needing to be picked up.

I.E. return packages are not included in a manifest when the shipper printed or sent the label to the customer just in case of need. Customer need only request the pickup for a return item and attach the return label to the return package.

oi veh. · Feb 5, 2018

Here ya go, kids.

THE ONLY SCAN 5 PARCELS ISSUE. INITIALLY JJ STATED PUB. 399 IS VALID FOR MGMT TO USE.

JD LATER STATED SHE WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT ANY OFFICE TOLD TO ONLY SCAN 5

FIVE SCANS ONLY: If you had all your pickup scans counted last count and they’ve been a part of your evaluation mgmt has the right to use their own language present in pub 399. If you have never been counted with them and now when you finally will be, the only scan 5 should be called into question.

https://www.ruralinfo.net/notes-from-the-q-and-a-session-at-sac.html#

klutz · Feb 5, 2018

If USPS says they can use one of their publications as justification for their decision on a specific topic ( ie publication 399) then logic would state that we can use any of their publications to justify our decisions.

So lets use the definition of a parcel from the DMM.....If USPS charges parcel rate, then we get credit for parcel.....

End of story.......Imagine if our less than worthless union ever stood up for us?

blamethesub · Feb 6, 2018

We discussed this at our pre count conference today. I was the only carrier up to speed on this issue (thanks to all of you) so it was kinda fun to watch the expressions when this topic came up. We all agreed we'd scan all parcels we pick up because that is the service our customers expect from us, and that's what we do all year. If there are more than 5 scans, we're going to note it on the worksheet so there is documentation in case the rules change at some point in the future.

Curious to know how this is being handled in all of your offices.

gotstamps · Feb 6, 2018

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">blamethesub said 
We discussed this at our pre count conference today. I was the only carrier up to speed on this issue (thanks to all of you) so it was kinda fun to watch the expressions when this topic came up. We all agreed we'd scan all parcels we pick up because that is the service our customers expect from us, and that's what we do all year. If there are more than 5 scans, we're going to note it on the worksheet so there is documentation in case the rules change at some point in the future.

Curious to know how this is being handled in all of your offices. </blockquote>
We still have yet to receive instructions on this. PM is waiting for clarification and is fighting it as it brings our "scans down" for the office. I have let the carriers in our office know that this possibility may come up & it is advised to notate how many scans they are being denied so that when the PO changes the rules we will have documentation for a class action grievance of what should have been added during count.

DownSouthOutfitters · Feb 12, 2018

Hello everyone.

Let me start by saying I appreciate "all postal carriers" worldwide for the jobs you do. YOUR ALL AWESOME!

I am not a carrier but a business owner. I would appreciate a phone # to call and discuss this with upper management and then will get eBay involved with the phone call when doing so.

I am an eBay seller and eBay requires all sellers packages to be scanned within a certain time period or we are penalized by eBay; that includes us paying more for fees than normal.

Say for instance I have 60+ packages at a time daily for pickup max, 6 days per week.

The 5 maximum scannable packages per day is not an option when our business revolves around selling on eBay and their requirements. If USPS can only scan 5 items at pickup and I have 60 packages eBay is going to penalize us (meaning millions of sellers worldwide) approx $0.45 per package because they were not scanned within our eBay required scan date.

So you can figure for instance I have 360 packages a week, the postal service can only scan 30 a week (these 30 I will not be penalized for) but the other 330 packages I get penalized an average of $0.45 per package that is $148.50 that is being taken out of my pocket because of a rule that is trying to be enforced when it has never been enforced in the past.

With that being said, how does scan forms work? If we have scan forms and we have 60+ packages does it upload every single package embedded within that one code? Or only the first 5 that is in that form? From my understanding, the scan for is not proof of shipment it just says: Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending.

So if our package is not processed by midnight with an acceptance scan when the sorting facility processes it eBay counts it as late shipment and then the penalty above per package is on us as sellers.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Stay safe on the roadways!

Thanks

Boston65 · Feb 12, 2018

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">DownSouthOutfitters said 
Hello everyone.

Let me start by saying I appreciate "all postal carriers" worldwide for the jobs you do. YOUR ALL AWESOME!

I am not a carrier but a business owner. I would appreciate a phone # to call and discuss this with upper management and then will get eBay involved with the phone call when doing so.

I am an eBay seller and eBay requires all sellers packages to be scanned within a certain time period or we are penalized by eBay; that includes us paying more for fees than normal.

Say for instance I have 60+ packages at a time daily for pickup max, 6 days per week.

The 5 maximum scannable packages per day is not an option when our business revolves around selling on eBay and their requirements. If USPS can only scan 5 items at pickup and I have 60 packages eBay is going to penalize us (meaning millions of sellers worldwide) approx $0.45 per package because they were not scanned within our eBay required scan date.

So you can figure for instance I have 360 packages a week, the postal service can only scan 30 a week (these 30 I will not be penalized for) but the other 330 packages I get penalized an average of $0.45 per package that is $148.50 that is being taken out of my pocket because of a rule that is trying to be enforced when it has never been enforced in the past.

With that being said, how does scan forms work? If we have scan forms and we have 60+ packages does it upload every single package embedded within that one code? Or only the first 5 that is in that form? From my understanding, the scan for is not proof of shipment it just says: Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending.

So if our package is not processed by midnight with an acceptance scan when the sorting facility processes it eBay counts it as late shipment and then the penalty above per package is on us as sellers.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Stay safe on the roadways!

Thanks </blockquote>
If you create a parcel pickup request for 60 plus parcels, they will be tied to the sheet that is given to us (carriers) with the scan code to be used at time of pick up. You will have to make sure that only the number of parcels associated with the pickup request are ready. If you put any more than that, we are instructed to scan only 5 of those in addition to your parcel pick up request. I do not know what the cut off time would be for the carrier pick up request online, but that would be your best option.

oi veh. · Feb 12, 2018

As far as calling upper management, I would start at the top.

The Postmaster General.

Maybe even your congressman.

humper1va · Feb 12, 2018

at xmas time my business put out 22 sm. parcels for pick up, the sub knocked on her door and asked for a bag to put the parcels in, she gave him a clear large bag, he never scanned them, and they disappeared. the post office says we have no record of those parcels. last year she mailed over 10,000! this is whats going to happen now. who says that you scan 5, and pocket 10? absolutely criminal what they are suggesting. just a way to screw us.

gotstamps · Feb 12, 2018

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">Boston RedSox 65 said 

If you create a parcel pickup request for 60 plus parcels, they will be tied to the sheet that is given to us (carriers) with the scan code to be used at time of pick up. You will have to make sure that only the number of parcels associated with the pickup request are ready. If you put any more than that, we are instructed to scan only 5 of those in addition to your parcel pick up request. I do not know what the cut off time would be for the carrier pick up request online, but that would be your best option. </blockquote>
This is incorrect information. There are ZERO delivery scans attached to a "pickup request". ONLY a Manifest created at the time that the labels are created has those package delivery confirmation #s. A pickup request is what mgmt gives a carrier. It only notifies the PO of the need and the scan informs of the pickup. A Manifest is created by the Sender for the Carrier to scan. Only those scans attached to the Manifest will be entered into the system as active.

Also, a "pickup request" must be placed on the day before or can be scheduled further ahead. They cannot be done as "same day" pickup.

Goggles · Feb 13, 2018

Hi, Another eCommerce merchant here who was searching for PUB 399 and the 5 package scan rule.

Long time S.C.A.N. form user. in fact one of the first users, I had to train my PO to use the S.C.A.N. form. I was a big fan

Another big thanks to all the great carriers out there! Without you, our business would not exist.

So, we started having problems around January 7th revolving around tracking displayed to customers. Apparently there was a change in messaging to packages associated with a scan form scan. Packages were not being "accepted" sometimes until they hit the delivery hub or were out for delivery. This caused customer panic, messages and unnecessary phone calls and packages that disappear without a trace. This effects our performance ratings on marketplaces like eBay and Amazon and could cause serious harm to our business.

We started doing some A/b testing sending off two batches of mail on the same pickup one with and one without scan form and noticed that each got different treatment in the network. Packages individually scanned accepted at pickup had accurate and multiple scans at many waypoints.

So, despite my preference to use scan forms, we started laying out all of our packages for individual scans (We have a special route end of day pickup) We ship between 30-500 packages per day. So far all of my regular carriers are extremely helpful and understanding in our scanning needs.

One day a supervisor was sent over to pickup our packages and he asked for our scan form, at which point I explained all of the above. He told me that they would not scan my packages. (I was warned that I would be contacted) I asked if he was "refusing to scan our packages at acceptance". got a "no, sir" and all the packages were scanned.

Yesterday another supervisor was sent over, this one quoting PUB 399 and even had it on his phone to show me.... I asked if he was "refusing to scan our packages at acceptance". got a "no, sir" and all the packages were scanned.

So, here I am looking at PUB 399 The problem is that TRACKING does not work as it is supposed to with a SCAN form.

<h2 style="text-align: left">"Contrary to what was stated in the letter, Postal Service carriers are required to perform an acceptance scan on all prepaid, barcoded parcels that they pick up from customers."</h2>
<h2 style="text-align: left">Roy Betts
U.S. Postal Service
Corporate Communications</h2>
https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters/blog.pl?/comments/2018/2/1396456422.html/1/0

My customers ARE NOT HAPPY WITH 3 DAYS of PENDING on a package that is manifested on a scan form,

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=9400111699000469955651

January 12, 2018, 2:09 am 
Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility
DETROIT MI NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER

<hr />
 January 9, 2018, 3:05 pm 
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
BATESVILLE, AR 72501

Goggles · Feb 13, 2018

7 days "Pending" is non-shipment in an eCommerce customers mind and resulted in a case being filed and a hold on our funds.

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=9400111699000489316814

January 18, 2018, 8:38 pm 
Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility
KANSAS CITY KS NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER

<hr />
 January 11, 2018, 4:01 pm 
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
BATESVILLE, AR 72501

Hopefully shows why we need "Accepted" Scans

D.B.Cooper · Feb 22, 2018

I for one, am glad to see that there are at least a couple of shippers who are paying attention to these issues... <img title="Wink" alt="Wink" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif" />

HatefulSoul · Apr 2, 2023

hunchback said:
Jeanette...

The time frame for comments on the Engineering Study has been extended to February 1st.

"On October 31, 2017, the parties received the Chairperson’s “recommendation for a Revised Evaluated Compensation System.” Per the MOU creating the ECS time standards project, which was part of the 2012 Clarke Interest Arbitration decision, the parties agreed to a 30-day period for evaluation and comment. However, given the scope of the project, the Chairperson’s almost 80-page report and extensive appendices, the parties mutually agreed to extend the time for evaluation and comment until February 1, 2018. This extension does not change the expectation that the Chairperson will issue the final determination within ninety (90) days of receiving the parties’ comments."

WAS 5 SCANS THE LIMIT DURING THE MULTI YEAR PROCESS CALLED THE ENGINEERING STUDY ?

HOW WILL WE BE PAID FOR THE PARCELS WE PICK UP IN EXCESS OF 5, once the new system is in place, IF THERE IS NO ELECTONIC TRAIL FOR THEM, YOU KNOW, THE SCANS WE WERE DOING DURING THE ENGINEERING STUDY ?

WILL YOU HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THIS FOR THE CHAIR PERSON **** BEFORE FEBRUARY 1st *****

WILL YOU CONTACT THE ARBITRAITOR WHO ORDERED THE ENGINEERING STUDY AND TELL HIM THE USPS IS SPITTING IN HIS FACE WITH THIS LATEST DEVELOPEMENT

COME ON MAKE AN EFFORT AT LEAST

So where do we stand today with this? I am trying to understand which scans populate which row of data in the 4241M.

Jshen · Apr 2, 2023

RIAdmin said:
Everyone, watch for this one. The USPS is using Publication 399 to tell carriers that they only scan 5 parcels in a carrier pickup request. The actual language is IF there is not a SCAN FORM or Carrier pickup request, but in some offices, they have already said it applies to all carrier pickups.

I have heard from carriers that Stewards are telling them this is correct. I have only noticed this issue coming up in the last 2-3 years. Mail count classes are being told this is correct, so we really need some guidance on this before count starts from National.

My observations.. This is NOT in the mail count guide that I can find. Supposedly, this Publication was released by the USPS in 2010 but they have just recently started trying to enforce it, from what I can tell

Anyone ever run into this problem and does anyone have any information from their stewards about this issue?

Took me a bit, but I found this Publication 399 on a city carrier website. This is the citation they are using.

<img title="2018-01-21-at-10.11-AM.jpeg" alt="2018-01-21-at-10.11-AM.jpeg" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo...s/riadmin/2018/01/2018-01-21-at-10.11-AM.jpeg" width="500" height="169" />

This is on page 14 of the United States Postal Service. Publication 399 Pickup Services Field Guide

<a href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo...evising-Pickup-Services-Field-Guide-Moore.pdf">5-24-16-Revising-Pickup-Services-Field-Guide-Moore.pdf</a>

The 5 refers to the pickup itself. The scanner while under customer pickup in the reccs menu only lets you scan 5. Then you can scan all parcels under prepaid acceptance back at the office for EOS time.