Time credit for parcels

[btdtret]

Cangonow -- "I believe I read that the USPS agrees that we work an incentive system..."

--  Actually it was Arbitrator Clarke, in his "award":  "The evidence presented in the interest arbitration, specifically including but not limited to the testimonies of the NRLCA's experts, rural carrier officers and members, and even some of the USPS's witness, convinces the Chairperson that the evaluated compensation system utilized to determine Rural Letter Carriers' pay <strong>is indeed an incentive system</strong>.  It is an unusual incentive system, however.  The incentive is to earn paid time off by working "harder and smarter".

--  There is no indication that the USPS ever agreed.   And most likely those USPS witnesses are still somewhere in the wilds of Alaska.

--  When ever the USPS dragged out the "bump" ( they just hate paying for work not actually done ) at contract negotiation or arbitration time, I don't believe I have ever seen a reference that the NRLCA ever mentioned that there were carriers working over their evaluated time, hence providing the USPS with "free" labor.

--  Back in the olden days, I thought it was supposed to be 50% of the rural carriers would be over eval and 50% would be under their eval -- maybe cancelling out each other.

--  With the new pay system, I though it was supposed to be something in the neighborhood of 80 - 90% would be able to make evaluation.  Anyone??

 

[btdtret]

Deer Smearer and Cangonow  -- "Runners will run, even if it’s detrimental to their pay." / " the runners will be hurting themselves "

--  In one last try, maybe pointing out that to the "runners" may some kind of impact.

--  And doing it during count will be detrimental to both the regular and the sub.

 

[oi veh.]

^^^I have tried.

They don't care.  Or don't believe it.

I have a feeling that there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the near but distant future.

 

[gotstamps]

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cangonow said </strong>

I wouldn't count on anything with this outfit. I thought the 2015 or 2016 count would be the last ones but here we are in 2018 looking at another one. We are left guessing as to what will happen because our assoc doesn't seem to think we are worthy of good information. My question is if the study will be implemented soon (or as you think by the end of the summer) why are they bothering with a national mailcount? Seems like a waste of time and money and they will be using antiquated standards. Something tells me that they are not close to implementing this beast and the USPS will probably stall as long as possible. I was at a count seminar and some of the other carriers believe the USPS will never allow this thing to ever be implemented and if it is, it will be a watered down version of what the study finds. I opted out 2 years ago because I thought the study would be implemented at any time and here we are again thinking the same, or should I say guessing the same, without any clear direction being given by the assoc. I guess the thing to do is assume the worst, that the study will not be implemented anytime soon, and be happy if anything changes. Again, it would be nice if the NRLCA was more forthcoming with info.  </blockquote>
Well, this was told to us at the union count meeting by our ADRs. I thought it was obvious that the count would likely NOT be ready back in 2016. I've been handling Amazons for over 5 yrs & get counted every spring as I've always been overburdened prior to count & always come back even more so. This is the first time I haven't had to be cut in 2 yrs as they cut my neighborhood "growth" off. I'll count now as I still have very slow growth & my district isn't allowing opt-out. The last cuts/adds were poorly planned by a vindictive person who has since retired. 

May 28th is the end of contract AND is the deadline for the study decision and implementation should start soon after. Neither side can grieve nor delay it. I've never been screwed on my counts but only because I recount everything & fight for it. I am interested as to how the study will change our contract.

 

[Cangonow]

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<strong>gotstamps said </strong>

Well, this was told to us at the union count meeting by our ADRs. I thought it was obvious that the count would likely NOT be ready back in 2016. I've been handling Amazons for over 5 yrs & get counted every spring as I've always been overburdened prior to count & always come back even more so. This is the first time I haven't had to be cut in 2 yrs as they cut my neighborhood "growth" off. I'll count now as I still have very slow growth & my district isn't allowing opt-out. The last cuts/adds were poorly planned by a vindictive person who has since retired. 

May 28th is the end of contract AND is the deadline for the study decision and implementation should start soon after. Neither side can grieve nor delay it. I've never been screwed on my counts but only because I recount everything & fight for it. I am interested as to how the study will change our contract.  

</blockquote>
<em> <strong>I go to all my local union meetings and we were never told the study would likely not be ready back in 2016. Wasn't the implementation date set at 5/20/15?  I think we are being strung along and definitely not being given good information to make decisions on by our assoc. I definitely have been screwed on counts, not because I didn't verify numbers and didn't fight for the things I deserve, but by being counted with an out of date and antiquated count system that doesn't give the right times for the things we do and uses a manipulated two week window of mail during an already slow (Feb/Mar) time of year for mail. If 5/28 is the end of the contract and is the deadline for the study decision and implementation should start soon after.....why are we bothering with this count? </strong></em>

 

[D.B.Cooper]

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>gotstamps said </strong>
...
<strong>May 28th is the end of contract AND is the deadline for the study decision and implementation should start soon after. Neither side can grieve nor delay it. I've never been screwed on my counts but only because I recount everything & fight for it. I am interested as to how the study will change our contract.  </strong></blockquote>
So has anybody heard what the recommendation of the NRLCA is regarding this mail count???  Are they recommending that we opt out because now that they have seen the results of the time study, and have made their final comments... they know we'll be redeemed in a couple of months (May) anyways???

Or, is it situation normal (SNAFU), and we've been treated like mushrooms, again???  <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />

 

[btdtret]

D.B.Cooper et al -- " has anybody heard what the recommendation of the NRLCA is regarding this mail count??? "

--  I don't believe I have ever heard the NRLCA make any recommendation regarding whether to count or not over the years.

--  Although the NRLCA president recommended voting for the "excellent" 2006-2010 contract.

"they know we’ll be redeemed in a couple of months (May) anyways???"

--  Maybe that will be "reamed" instead of "redeemed".

"is it situation normal (SNAFU).."

--  With the continued lack of information, SNAFU is appropriate.

"we’ve been treated like mushrooms.."

--  The rural carriers are not the only ones being treated like that.   The APWU president has a 2+ minute video out, addressing the 25,000 ( ! ) clerk and mailhandler VER-eligible APWU workers.   Seems the USPS never contacted the APWU about the VER, which is not offering any $ incentive to leave.

-- Without knowing how many clerks and mailhandlers will actually take the VER exit dates of 31 January and 28 February ( 4 days into count! ) -- makes one wonder if there would be enough APWU workers heading out the door to affect the running of count.  Or whether the NRLCA would mention the bold-face entry on page 13 of the 2018 Mail Count Guide:  "It is unacceptable for either management or rural carriers to take actions that affect the integrity of the mail count." to the USPS.   Guess it will have to come down to individual offices to make the call that the lack of clerks and mailhandlers slowed down distributing the mails, both from the plants and to the carriers in the office.

--  Good luck out there.

 

[gotstamps]

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cangonow said </strong>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<strong>gotstamps said </strong>

Well, this was told to us at the union count meeting by our ADRs. I thought it was obvious that the count would likely NOT be ready back in 2016. I've been handling Amazons for over 5 yrs & get counted every spring as I've always been overburdened prior to count & always come back even more so. This is the first time I haven't had to be cut in 2 yrs as they cut my neighborhood "growth" off. I'll count now as I still have very slow growth & my district isn't allowing opt-out. The last cuts/adds were poorly planned by a vindictive person who has since retired. 

May 28th is the end of contract AND is the deadline for the study decision and implementation should start soon after. Neither side can grieve nor delay it. I've never been screwed on my counts but only because I recount everything & fight for it. I am interested as to how the study will change our contract.  
</blockquote>

<em> <strong>I go to all my local union meetings and we were never told the study would likely not be ready back in 2016. Wasn't the implementation date set at 5/20/15?  I think we are being strung along and definitely not being given good information to make decisions on by our assoc. I definitely have been screwed on counts, not because I didn't verify numbers and didn't fight for the things I deserve, but by being counted with an out of date and antiquated count system that doesn't give the right times for the things we do and uses a manipulated two week window of mail during an already slow (Feb/Mar) time of year for mail. If 5/28 is the end of the contract and is the deadline for the study decision and implementation should start soon after.....why are we bothering with this count? </strong></em>  </blockquote>
Well, just following how he study was going back then, I assumed it wouldn't be ready and when our ADRs were asked, it was told that it was taking longer than expected. Sorry if your mail volume has been manipulated in the past but ours has not. This 2-week period is better than some we've had in previous years & I've never opted-out. I've gone up & been cut every time.  Mid-month counts are worse as most of our mailings come in the last & first weeks. Tax time starts today & those receiving refunds will be spending money about that time hopefully. This one also happens right before Spring Break for us here so folks will be preparing for that too.

This count is happening due to contract rules. The study would have had to be already in implementation phase to negate the need for this count. What is ridiculous is people getting upset over the timeframe of the count when it's been in our contract all this time. We have a couple of peeps in our office that set up vacations for during the count yet are now mad that we are mandatory in our district. 

Good luck, recount whatever they count, and recheck the numbers. These people are human & mistakes get made.

 

[Cangonow]

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>gotstamps said </strong>

Well, just following how he study was going back then, I assumed it wouldn't be ready and when our ADRs were asked, it was told that it was taking longer than expected. Sorry if your mail volume has been manipulated in the past but ours has not. This 2-week period is better than some we've had in previous years & I've never opted-out. I've gone up & been cut every time.  Mid-month counts are worse as most of our mailings come in the last & first weeks. Tax time starts today & those receiving refunds will be spending money about that time hopefully. This one also happens right before Spring Break for us here so folks will be preparing for that too.

This count is happening due to contract rules. The study would have had to be already in implementation phase to negate the need for this count. What is ridiculous is people getting upset over the timeframe of the count when it's been in our contract all this time. We have a couple of peeps in our office that set up vacations for during the count yet are now mad that we are mandatory in our district. 

Good luck, recount whatever they count, and recheck the numbers. These people are human & mistakes get made.  </blockquote>
GS, I don't know if you are completely automated or not with LLV's but if you are, like we are, its almost impossible to gain from a count unless you have a bunch of new deliveries that somehow haven't been added to your route. 43/minute for DPS and FSS is an unreal standard. 10 seconds of route time for a parcel is only possibly attainable for the ones that fit in the box. Yes there will be a big increase in parcel volume (if they let them flow) but will that be enough to alter the drop in letters and flats? I'm glad that you seem content with our system until the new one arrives (we don't really have a choice do we) but we are getting hammered in our office. We have to be the worst of the worst as far as going over our evals in my office, but I sure hope that things are changed soon. Carriers are just getting by in our office. As far as the Feb/Mar counts go, I have been around long enough to remember when our counts were in Sept. That change to F/M was a huge hit on us, IMO, and is just one of many reasons our office and the rural craft is suffering, I believe 

 

[btdtret]

Cangonow et al -- " I have been around long enough to remember when our counts were in Sept. "

--  And even after a 4-week count in September, the results were effected at the start of the New Guarantee Year in October -- usually just 3 weeks after count ended, like my last one in 2011.

--  The 2018 count ends 09 March and the results become effective on 28 April 2018 -- 48 days or almost 7 weeks later -- and it is just a 2-week count!  What seems to be the problem with crunching the numbers these days?

"That change to F/M was a huge hit on us.."

--  Arbitrator Wells' 2002 "award" made the transition from September to FEB/MAR.   Wells award came out on 3 February 2002 and the first day of count was 28 February.   Think someone might have had some "inside" information to get a count ready in 3+ weeks which included a lot of new "standards".

--  And the NRLCA exacerbated it further by proposing alternating three- ( instead of 4 ) and two-week counts during the February/March time frame, which Arbitrator Clarke adopted in the 2010-2015 "award".  How did everyone do with that 2016 middle of March count?

--  The 2015-2018 "negotiated" contract just happened to omit the 2017 mail count, which would have been a 3-weak count.  Blood boiling yet?

--  Apparently the NRLCA has [ conveniently or otherwise ] forgotten part of Wells' 2002 award comments:  "Similarly, the Union has not presented any compelling evidence to justify increasing the time allowance for parcels by 200%. ".

--  I'd think the increase in Amazon parcels might have been worth mentioning / fighting for in the 2015-2018 contract.  -- Apparently not.  

--  Lastly ( for now ), Wells also ordered the two parties to create an alternative to the [ then ] current mail count process.  And it had to be completed by 20 MAY 2004!   Gee, another "20 MAY" dead line has come and gone without being fulfilled. 

 

[gotstamps]

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cangonow said </strong>

GS, I don't know if you are completely automated or not with LLV's but if you are, like we are, its almost impossible to gain from a count unless you have a bunch of new deliveries that somehow haven't been added to your route. 43/minute for DPS and FSS is an unreal standard. 10 seconds of route time for a parcel is only possibly attainable for the ones that fit in the box. Yes there will be a big increase in parcel volume (if they let them flow) but will that be enough to alter the drop in letters and flats? I'm glad that you seem content with our system until the new one arrives (we don't really have a choice do we) but we are getting hammered in our office. We have to be the worst of the worst as far as going over our evals in my office, but I sure hope that things are changed soon. Carriers are just getting by in our office. As far as the Feb/Mar counts go, I have been around long enough to remember when our counts were in Sept. That change to F/M was a huge hit on us, IMO, and is just one of many reasons our office and the rural craft is suffering, I believe   </blockquote>
I have an LLV & DPS but no FSS. I've gone up every count and cut right after every time. The cuts are what screw me as I usually lose the "light" section of my route but I used to have fast growth to make up for some and then overburdened by the next count. I've been a Regular for 10+ years so I'm not new to any of this. From what I've gathered, the FSS is where people get royally screwed in the count and that makes a HUGE difference. Sorry you have those & I wish you luck.